Showing Respect at an Anglican or Episcopalian Mass

[TrueLight]

One more thing to be aware of, after the Gospel reading they do not sit down like we do but remain standing until the priest says «may I speak in the name of God. Father, son and holy spirit> and then asks everyone to sit. Also the peace id shared before the offertory procession and EP.

Okay no problem. I’ll sit when they sit, stand when they stand.

If it is said, I don’t see a problem with that, because the Creed is used (and was composed by) the Catholic Church. It is infinitely more Catholic than Anglican.

Okay cool.

 

[thistle]

The question isn’t whether to attend or not. The question is what to do when one is there. Lets stick to the question of the OP, shall we?

If the intention of going is to participate in worship then Catholics must not attend.
Being invited to a wedding or baptism for example is a different story.

 

[mcmitton]

Anglicans and Episcopalians believe in the true presence. They believe that their priests, men and women, are in the apostolic succession.

Our problem is that the line of apostolic succession was broken when the priests were ordained by those who had broken with Rome. This, then, makes the consecration invalid, done by invalid priests.

Respect is always required, no matter what church you attend.

 

[coco2]

The sign of the cross is for you, it’s not a sign of submission or reverence to Him. Unless I’m misunderstanding?

I make the sign of the cross anywhere. In a restaurant before a meal. In the car when I pass a Church. Anywhere. I do not genuflect anywhere but at Mass. I do not box anywhere but at Mass.

Not everyone at the Episcopal church crosses themselves, but I have seen some people do it, unless they are all Catholics, like me, who were visiting.

 

[Sarabande]

Let’s say I were to visit an Episcoplian Church out of curiousity……

Should I genuflect? I would say no because they don’t have the real presence.

Should I bow to the altar at least?

I’m speaking of an Anglican or Episcopalian mass, not Anglican use.

Any response that reads something like “You shouldn’t be attending an Anglican Mass” are not allowed.

As a musician, I do sometimes work as a “ringer” for choirs of different denominations. I do not genuflect or bow because I am not of their faith, just as I wouldn’t expect a non-Catholic to do so at a Catholic Mass. I’ll always show respect, though.

Also, at the Episcopal/Anglican churches I’ve worked in, they do call them masses, but they are churches which are more like Catholic masses. Even at a Lutheran church I used to freelance at, they called their services masses and were very much like a Catholic mass and everyone received communion at the altar rail, kneeling. It was more on the conservative end, which does make a difference.

 

[Zenkai]

If the intention of going is to participate in worship then Catholics must not attend.
Being invited to a wedding or baptism for example is a different story.

Why shouldn’t Catholics worship God in a Protestant church?

 

[coco2]

I will say the music at these churches is very, very good. The choirs are exceptional. They all have beautiful voices and sing very old songs, much more complicated music than we sing at the Catholic church. And from what I understand, it is this way at most anglican/episcopal churches. The music HAS to be beautifully sung. The choir members at the church ( Episcopal) my daughter sings at are paid. Although, she is also paid to sing at a Catholic Cathedral in town, but only the cantors are paid and have to have a background in music.

I will say that I have been in many Catholic churches where the choirs were very bad. In my opinion, sometimes to the point of being disrespectful, particularly if the cantor can’t sing on key. I see this at so many Catholic churches, some of them HUGE and I know there have to be people in the parish that can sing better than this. I am not referring to children here, I’m talking about adults! I wonder why this is?

 

[dochawk]

Our problem is that the line of apostolic succession was broken when the priests were ordained by those who had broken with Rome. This, then, makes the consecration invalid, done by invalid priests.
.

No, that’s not quite it. They could have kept the succession indefinitely without it, as have the Orthodox, the Chirch of the East, the Old Catholics (until recently)’, the Polish National Church, etc.

The break in Anglicanism came for two reasons: a defect in form, and a defect in intent/understanding of the nature of the sacrament.

As there is plent of this in other current threads, please go there instead of posting here if you have more questions. . I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread . . .

hawk

 

[ConstantineTG]

If the intention of going is to participate in worship then Catholics must not attend.
Being invited to a wedding or baptism for example is a different story.

I’m pretty sure you know that TrueLight is an active user of CAF and is, at worst, above average in her catechesis. She already knows these things. Plus, it wasn’t her question whether she can or cannot go to an Anglican Mass. Lets stick to the question at hand and answer the question itself rather than derail the thread into something that it is not.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Why shouldn’t Catholics worship God in a Protestant church?

Lex orandi, lex credendi.

If the prayers have faulty theology, then it will distort our own faith.

But again, this is besides the point of the OP. She wants to know whats the proper way to act when in an Anglican or Episcopalian Mass.

 

[Zenkai]

Lex orandi, lex credendi.

If the prayers have faulty theology, then it will distort our own faith.

But again, this is besides the point of the OP. She wants to know whats the proper way to act when in an Anglican or Episcopalian Mass.

The theology is actually quite strong. And as long as you know what the differences in teaching are, you should be fine at a Protestant church.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The theology is actually quite strong. And as long as you know what the differences in teaching are, you should be fine at a Protestant church.

Well, not really. For one thing the Anglican Use Mass in the Catholic Church made some corrections. Yes, most of what is in the Liturgy is Catholic in theology, but there are still some minor changes that need to be made.

And its not enough that you know better. Because the purpose of prayer is to set our minds into the prayer. Prayers is not just talking to God, its talking to yourself as well. That is why we do repetitive, “scripted” prayers. It talks to our subconscious and tells us how to believe, that is how lex orandi, lex credendi works. If we keep praying theologically faulty prayers, we will soon enough fall into error.

 

[BettyBoop416]

Be really careful with how far you participate: If you close your eyes to the fact that an Episcopal church is decorated/fitted differently than a Catholic church, you wouldn’t necessarily even spot the differences in the liturgies.

This actually happened to a friend of mine. She was out of town visiting (non-Catholic) friends and asked them where the nearest Catholic church was so she could attend Sunday mass. They scratched their heads, thought about it for awhile, and gave her directions. My friend found the church, attended the mass, enjoyed the homily and the hymns, received communion, and returned to her host’s house. The following day they happened to drive past the church…and noticed the “Welcome to the Episcopal Church” sign out front.

When my friend told me the story we were laughing so hard we were crying. She said that she could probably have attended mass there for months and never notice the difference. Although, upon further reflection, she indicated that the cloak room and the congregation actually singing should have tipped her off.

 

[Chatter163]

Why shouldn’t Catholics worship God in a Protestant church?

Blessed Pius IX taught in Graves ac diuturnae:

1. We think it is Our duty to repeat this public declaration now and to request you to preserve the unity of faith among your faithful by every possible means in accordance with your eminent zeal and your renowned virtue. For you have given notable examples of this virtue in bearing tribulations for the cause of God. You should remind them to beware of these treacherous enemies of the flock of Christ and their poisoned foods. They should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings. They should shun their writings and all contact with them. They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction. They should avoid them as strangers and thieves who come only to steal, slay, and destroy. For the Church’s children should consider the proper action to preserve the most precious treasure of faith, without which it is impossible to please God, as well as action calculated to achieve the goal of faith, that is the salvation of their souls, by following the straight road of justice.
   ewtn.com/library/encyc/p9graves.htm

 

[Chatter163]

Yeah. I’m just curious to see what it is like. The curiosity comes from some posts I have seen from Anglican posters as well as the new Anglican Ordinariate. I want to see why Anglicans consider themselves Catholics. I hope to check out an Episcopalian church with no female priests. But anyway, I don’t have any immediate plans. I want to visit a “high church”.

Again, as has been pointed out, there are tremendous varieties of worship among Anglican parishes, even within those that would be considered high churches, many of which have female clergy. Here is but one variation, a Midnight Mass that includes two thurifers (one of whom is a classic Anglican, with very conspicuous thurible swings), a celebrant in a biretta, but also a female deacon. It can be very eclectic. There is the more Tudor/Elizabethan language rite I, and the more contemporary and similar to the recently discarded English translations of our own church. Here is a flagship parish of the Anglican Use of the Catholic Church.

 

[captainmike]

obviously, whether or not one visits a protestant church, one must still attend mass on sunday. going to a “bible church” doesn’t satisfy our obligation to attend mass. again, obviously.

it seems to me there is a difference between attending a bible/baptist church and attending an episcopal church.

the bible/baptist church service consists of reading from the bible, singing hymns/songs, and hearing a message. and perhaps an “altar call” (to accept Jesus as your savior) at the end. only rarely at a service like this is communion (which they call “the Lord’s supper”) offered, and it is believed to be purely symbolic. these Christians reject the notion of apostolic succession, and they reject the idea that there are “sacraments.”

the episcopal church, on the other hand, offers communion at every service, claims that its priests are valid due to apostolic succession, and believes in sacraments.

attending a church which essentialy says to rome, “you’re wrong, our priests are valid, and this is a valid sacrament,” seems more dangerous/wrong to me.

plus, why would a catholic want to visit an episcopal church?

btw, i was an episcopalian for 22 years and a baptist for 18 years before that. have been catholic for 5-6 years.

 

[Chatter163]

Anglicans and Episcopalians believe in the true presence.

Some do and use that very Catholic term, while others would be extremely uncomfortable with it, and in some cases would actually deny it. The 39 Articles historically denounced not only transubstantiation, but practices associated with it (presumably Benediction and Blessed Sacrament processions). For a minority of Anglicans, these practices, along with sacramental confession to a priest, recitation of the rosary, et al., are very important and common practices. For most Anglicans, these would not be part of their liturgical, sacramental and devotional lives. For another minority, they would find these objectionable.

(I was raised in the Anglo-Catholic tradition of the Episcopal Church. I have been a Roman Catholic for 28 years.)

 

[Zenkai]

Well, not really. For one thing the Anglican Use Mass in the Catholic Church made some corrections. Yes, most of what is in the Liturgy is Catholic in theology, but there are still some minor changes that need to be made.

And its not enough that you know better. Because the purpose of prayer is to set our minds into the prayer. Prayers is not just talking to God, its talking to yourself as well. That is why we do repetitive, “scripted” prayers. It talks to our subconscious and tells us how to believe, that is how lex orandi, lex credendi works. If we keep praying theologically faulty prayers, we will soon enough fall into error.

You can’t say the theology is faulty just because you disagree with it. And still, you can go to any Protestant service. If you want to do scripted prayers you can do them at home after the Protestant service or at a Catholic Mass.

 

[Zenkai]

Blessed Pius IX taught in Graves ac diuturnae:

1. We think it is Our duty to repeat this public declaration now and to request you to preserve the unity of faith among your faithful by every possible means in accordance with your eminent zeal and your renowned virtue. For you have given notable examples of this virtue in bearing tribulations for the cause of God. You should remind them to beware of these treacherous enemies of the flock of Christ and their poisoned foods. They should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings. They should shun their writings and all contact with them. They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction. They should avoid them as strangers and thieves who come only to steal, slay, and destroy. For the Church’s children should consider the proper action to preserve the most precious treasure of faith, without which it is impossible to please God, as well as action calculated to achieve the goal of faith, that is the salvation of their souls, by following the straight road of justice.
   ewtn.com/library/encyc/p9graves.htm

Calling Protestants “enemies of Christ” and telling people to “shun them” does not seem like the biblical Christian answer.

 

[ConstantineTG]

You can’t say the theology is faulty just because you disagree with it. And still, you can go to any Protestant service. If you want to do scripted prayers you can do them at home after the Protestant service or at a Catholic Mass.

It isn’t I who are disagreeing with it. Again, the fact that some corrections were made for the Anglican Use Mass was done suggests there are indeed faulty things in there. On the other hand, Orthodox Liturgies remain as-is when used by Eastern Catholic Churches.

No, “scripted” prayers are important especially at Liturgy. It is important to follow the words written by saints, monks and theologians. Freestyling usually leads to disaster.