Showtime's "The Borgias"

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I am a fan of both shows.
  1. The Showtime version, *The Borgias *(with Jeremy Irons as Pope Alexander), is not accurate at all. It relies heavily on the myths, etc. But it is the better TV show – fast paced and fun.
  2. The other TV Show, *The Borgia *(French TV? - not sure of the source - for American/English audience) is MUCH more accurate. This version has John Doman as Pope Alexander. This version is more accurate but slower in character development.
  3. Jeremy Irons is just “a scream” as Pope Alexander. He conveys the humor that most historians give Rodrigo credit for. I’d much rather have-a-chat with him than Julius II (della Rovere).
  4. However, the first episode (of the Showtime version) was a bit of a letdown for me. I watched half-way through and decided to just wait for the DVD.
  5. Both shows are not anti-Catholic. They are soap-operas with an historical back-drop.
  6. The both have strong sexual content and violence. No getting around that.
 
I am a fan of both Jeremy Irons and the show. I was happy to see the Second Season begin. It is a drama, no doubt about it, but the basic historical facts are there. The church, the papacy and the politics of the time are certainly worth learning about. Of course the Borgia lineage is legendary.
 
BListon said:
What are we to think of the t.v. series “The Borgias.” First of all is it historically accurate?
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I think its more historically accurate than The Tudors series was. The story lines in The Borgias are:
  • drawn from the accusations of their enemies so while historically suspect they’re not invented by the writers either.
  • essentially mid rash, all we historically have for sure are 2 events in time and the writers invent the the middle part to connect the dots.
  • completely made up by the writers for entertainment value
  • and some sadly historically accurate.
second of all is it anti-Catholic?
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I wouldn’t say that. People love sex, violence, and religion all mixed together. I wouldn’t recommend it to those are sensitive to those topics being combined.
Third should any decent Catholic actually watch it?
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No one should watch anything. But a Catholic could watch it without a need to go to confession or feeling the need to take a shower…
 
Though S1E1 did have several sly comments in it that I was not very fond of. The “Isis is a predecessor of Mary” which was part of the German Biblical Criticism movement in the 19th and 20th century.

Otherwise love the costumes, love the scenery, great character development
 
really liking the Borgias. as my moniker suggests. it is a soap opera. plain and simple .really enjoy it, great acting and writing and the costumes never cease to amaze me.
 
Luvz2travel said:
No I watched a bit of the Tudors and it wasn’t very historically true. Henry had 2 sisters for example not just one. Ironically one of them was divorced almost as many times as he was the other Married the Elderly King of France then Ran off with Henry’s best friend when she was widowed. …I can’t see the Borgia’s is being more then very light entertainment. I do love True Blood though and can’t wait for season 4 :cool:
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Luvz2travel said:
I saw the Tudors and as someone who read widely about them I agree that show was not very historically true. Henry actually had 2 sisters. One who divorced almost as many times as he did and another who ran off with her brothers best friend after her elderly first husband the King of France died. They kind of blended the two into one and cut out the best parts of the story which really annoyed me. Back to the Borgias. I know only a little about them and what I do know is from fictionalized novels and a TV miniseries that was on cable in the 90s so I don’t know how true to the real story it was.
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I’m confused as to which sister you are referring to that was “divorced almost as many times as he did.” Henry’s sister Margaret, Queen of Scots, was divorced once and widowed twice. His other sister Mary, Queen of France, was widowed once.
 
The Tudors was superb. The Borgias, on the other hand, is just kind of boring. I favor watching Game of Thrones on HBO when both are showing.
 
Nec5 said:
The Tudors was superb. The Borgias, on the other hand, is just kind of boring. I favor watching Game of Thrones on HBO when both are showing.
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I liked the Tudors, the Borgias is fine (I am still watching), but Game of Thrones is on a totally different level. This is coming from a book fan, though, so…
 
“The Borgias” is created by an atheist named Neil Jordan.

From Wikipedia: “I was brought up a Catholic and was quite religious at one stage in my life, when I was young. But it left me with no scars whatever; it just sort of vanished.” He said about his current beliefs that “God is the greatest imaginary being of all time. Along with Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity, the invention of God is probably the greatest creation of human thought.”

I saw the first episode, and I figured the creator had some strange opinion of God. Sure enough…
Be careful what you watch. It’s interesting, but his philosophy is rooted in it.
 
just getting interested in this topic, so correct anything you may think I’m saying that you think is wrong.

It seems to me that if we as Catholics do decide to watch it even as entertainment, if it is historically incorrect, we are in fact giving money towards a wrong cause. It is tempting, I keep starting watching because it is an interesting topic, then stopping because I start seeing the story may be spreading lies to more people the more money they make off of telling a false story. The actors don’t look to me Roman at all, they look English. Why should we let the English tell the story that is Roman? Maybe this will prompt Italy or even Vatican City to create a series that is through the eyes of the place this all happened, and through Catholics not Anglicans.
 
ett said:
just getting interested in this topic, so correct anything you may think I’m saying that you think is wrong.

It seems to me that if we as Catholics do decide to watch it even as entertainment, if it is historically incorrect, we are in fact giving money towards a wrong cause. It is tempting, I keep starting watching because it is an interesting topic, then stopping because I start seeing the story may be spreading lies to more people the more money they make off of telling a false story. The actors don’t look to me Roman at all, they look English. Why should we let the English tell the story that is Roman? Maybe this will prompt Italy or even Vatican City to create a series that is through the eyes of the place this all happened, and through Catholics not Anglicans.
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Your post is a little confusing. I understand your concern about historical dramas being as factual as possible, but there is always license with dramas and fiction when trying to portray an historical figure or event. I think in this case, they did pretty well, all things considering.

As for the actors, well, the production company got some highly visible names in order to appeal to the public. I believe it was an international cast, but you are correct in that Jeremy Irons as the Pope is British. He and his family, however, are Catholic, not Anglican.

You wanted all the film production and actors to be ‘Roman?’ I’m not sure what that means. The story is primarily about Roderic Borgia, who became Pope Alexander VI (he was Valencian, not Roman) and his many children. Lucrezia Borgia, of course is famous throughout history. It was not a good time for the Church. Lots of corruption, sex, and power. Thats why it made for a good story. I doubt the Vatican would want to do a TV series on that particular time in Church history and on that particular family.

But anyway, the series is over and we can enjoy it on DVD. Some liked it and some didn’t.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
Your post is a little confusing. I understand your concern about historical dramas being as factual as possible, but there is always license with dramas and fiction when trying to portray an historical figure or event. I think in this case, they did pretty well, all things considering.

As for the actors, well, the production company got some highly visible names in order to appeal to the public. I believe it was an international cast, but you are correct in that Jeremy Irons as the Pope is British. He and his family, however, are Catholic, not Anglican.

You wanted all the film production and actors to be ‘Roman?’ I’m not sure what that means. The story is primarily about Roderic Borgia, who became Pope Alexander VI (he was Valencian, not Roman) and his many children. Lucrezia Borgia, of course is famous throughout history. It was not a good time for the Church. Lots of corruption, sex, and power. Thats why it made for a good story. I doubt the Vatican would want to do a TV series on that particular time in Church history and on that particular family.

But anyway, the series is over and we can enjoy it on DVD. Some liked it and some didn’t.
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Thank you, as I said I just began into the topic. You cleared up a lot.
 
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