Shroud of Turin Questions

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aball1035

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What makes up Jesus’s body on the Shroud? I heard it wasn’t paint or blood but “occulation” of the cloth or something.

Secondly, if you believe it’s really Jesus, what’s the Shroud’s history from 33-1000 AD give or take. I can’t seem to find so much on google til around 1500
 
aball1035 said:
What makes up Jesus’s body on the Shroud? I heard it wasn’t paint or blood but “occulation” of the cloth or something.
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Occulation? Is that a word??:)🙂

Actually, the body-image is made up of slight surface oxidation of the fibers in the cloth; a chemical process similar to yellowing. While heat is the usual mechanism producing this change, researchers have not solved how such heat could emit from a dead human being, or how it could yield an apparently 3-d image of the body, or (if forged) how it could be applied without scorching the fabric.

ICXC NIKA
 
Please visit the Shroud of Turin official website:

shroud.com/

Once you have satisfied your curiosity there, feel free to return here and discuss what you have found.
 
Nan_S said:
Please visit the Shroud of Turin official website:

shroud.com/

Once you have satisfied your curiosity there, feel free to return here and discuss what you have found.
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…I wonder how you would feel if you were looking for the subway in a large city and you asked someone, who then told you, “Why don’t you buy a map and if you can’t find it, then you can ask”.

Please, uphold charity. 🙂
 
GEddie said:
Occulation? Is that a word??:)🙂

Actually, the body-image is made up of slight surface oxidation of the fibers in the cloth; a chemical process similar to yellowing. While heat is the usual mechanism producing this change, researchers have not solved how such heat could emit from a dead human being, or how it could yield an apparently 3-d image of the body, or (if forged) how it could be applied without scorching the fabric.

ICXC NIKA
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Yes, oxidation was what i was looking for! Why did it make the outline of only Christ’s body though? Why wasn’t the whole thing oxidized?
 
aball1035 said:
Yes, oxidation was what i was looking for! Why did it make the outline of only Christ’s body though? Why wasn’t the whole thing oxidized?
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well, therein lies the mystery!:)🙂

Because there is an image of the surface of HIM, where the cloth would have touched HIM (front and back) a contact hypothesis has been suggested. Since HE was naked in death, a skin–to–shroud contact process would theoretically produce the body image, while also omitting the areas that would not have touched the cloth (HIS sides, thumbs, or the front of HIS neck) which are not in fact seen on the Shroud.

The puzzle is that no known process involving cloth and dead human skin or blood will produce such oxidative change in the cloth. Other shrouding fabrics from antiquity contain only residues of human decomposition. The human body, alive or dead, will not put out sufficient heat to yellow a fabric it touches. And if a human form that was not a body (i.e. metal statue) is heated sufficiently to yellow the fabric, it will burn right through at points that press into it (i.e. the nose).

So some form of contact mechanism was probably involved, however, it remains unknown.

ICXC NIKA.
 
aball1035 said:
What makes up Jesus’s body on the Shroud? I heard it wasn’t paint or blood but “occulation” of the cloth or something.

Secondly, if you believe it’s really Jesus, what’s the Shroud’s history from 33-1000 AD give or take. I can’t seem to find so much on google til around 1500
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There is no history prior to the middle ages. Dating of the cloth does not put it older than that. Pollen found in the cloth and the type of weave shows it could be from the middle east, incuding the Holy Land. However, there is no evidence yet that it is earlier than the middle ages.
Also, remember that the Church has not said the Shroud is the burial cloth of Christ. This is up to individuals to believe or not. We are not bound to believe it nor is such a belief necessary for our salvation.
Lastly, it will never be possible to prove its the burial cloth of Christ. The most that could ever be proven would be that the cloth is around 2000 years old (and that has not be shown yet) and is consistent with cloth from the Holy Land at that time. That still does not prove its Christ’s burial cloth.
 
thistle said:
There is no history prior to the middle ages. Dating of the cloth does not put it older than that. Pollen found in the cloth and the type of weave shows it could be from the middle east, incuding the Holy Land. However, there is no evidence yet that it is earlier than the middle ages.
Also, remember that the Church has not said the Shroud is the burial cloth of Christ. This is up to individuals to believe or not. We are not bound to believe it nor is such a belief necessary for our salvation.
Lastly, it will never be possible to prove its the burial cloth of Christ. The most that could ever be proven would be that the cloth is around 2000 years old (and that has not be shown yet) and is consistent with cloth from the Holy Land at that time. That still does not prove its Christ’s burial cloth.
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I know, I believe it is so I’m asking the questions assuming that it is
 
thistle said:
Then why is there no supportable history prior to the middle ages?
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There actually are documents that seem to describe the shroud itself, not to mention pollen samples from Edessa, Jerusalem and Constantinople. Anyways, that is not the question. Please stay on topic
 
thistle said:
There is no history prior to the middle ages. Dating of the cloth does not put it older than that. Pollen found in the cloth and the type of weave shows it could be from the middle east, incuding the Holy Land. However, there is no evidence yet that it is earlier than the middle ages.
Also, remember that the Church has not said the Shroud is the burial cloth of Christ. This is up to individuals to believe or not. We are not bound to believe it nor is such a belief necessary for our salvation.
Lastly, it will never be possible to prove its the burial cloth of Christ. The most that could ever be proven would be that the cloth is around 2000 years old (and that has not be shown yet) and is consistent with cloth from the Holy Land at that time. That still does not prove its Christ’s burial cloth.
Click to expand...
I heard that a church holds onto a head wrapping that supposedly was used to wrap around the head of Christ while He was dead on the cross, it apparently has similarities to the shroud and is at least 1800 years old (it was given to the Church in 200 AD or something like that). The only time I heard about it was about 3 or 4 years ago, so I apologize for this gapped information.

Also, this shouldn’t be in this section (Moral Apologetics), maybe it should be moved to Apologetics or another forum.

-Prophecy
 
Prophesy said:
I heard that a church holds onto a head wrapping that supposedly was used to wrap around the head of Christ while He was dead on the cross, it apparently has similarities to the shroud and is at least 1800 years old (it was given to the Church in 200 AD or something like that). The only time I heard about it was about 3 or 4 years ago, so I apologize for this gapped information.

Also, this shouldn’t be in this section (Moral Apologetics), maybe it should be moved to Apologetics or another forum.

-Prophecy
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The cloth in question is the Soudarium of Oviedo. It is kept in the Cathedral of Oviedo in Spain. It is approximately the proper size to wrap around a human head, and has a provenance going back through the Medieval period.

It bears no image comparable to the central (head) portion of the Shroud; however, it does contain bloodstains in the same pattern as the head of the image on the Shroud.

ICXC NIKA.
 
About the provenance of the Turin Shroud:

Do a google on the “Christus Pantocrator”. This is an icon of our LORD that was painted near Athens in the six hundreds.

The face matches the face on the Shroud at several hundred data points.

ICXC NIKA!
 
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