Shroud of Turin

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New scientific tests on the Shroud of Turin have confirmed that the cloth dates back to around the time of Christ. The results dismiss a 1988 study that claimed the cloth was manufactured in the 13th or 14th century.

The American Shroud of Turin Association for Research (AMSTAR) found that the tests done in 1988,using carbon-14 dating techniques, were actually performed on a patch that had been skillfully woven onto the original cloth of the Shroud.
Tom D’Muhala, the president of AMSTAR, says that new chemical tests have shown that the main cloth of the Shroud is “actually very old— much older than the published 1988 radiocarbon date.”

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=34747
 
i am not surprised at all…


but for some, it will not mean a thing… and that’s ok…

for those of us that believe, no explanation is necessary, and for those that don’t believe, there is no explanation…

Peace:thumbsup:
 
I am so pleased to see this however -to me this is one of the most miraculous artifacts we have in the church.
 
I wish the article would at least say what chemical method they used to determine this. The implication seems to be that some additional cloth was added around the edges at some point, or maybe that the shroud was mounted on another piece of fabric, which maybe were reasonable things to do to help preserve it. If this was the case, I would expect that a careful analysis could show some boundaries where the weave changes subtly, or something like that.
 
For those of you who have subscription access, you may be able to get the peer-reviewed article from Thermochimica Acta here:

sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MImg&_imagekey=B6THV-4DTBVHC-1-1&_cdi=5292&_user=965532&_orig=search&_coverDate=01%2F20%2F2005&_sk=995749998&view=c&wchp=dGLbVtb-zSkWW&md5=112b876c665cd77afc0b7a746f2da6f9&ie=/sdarticle.pdf

It’s pretty interesting… you really get sense that the shroud has a long, complex history, and that this sort of archaeology involves a lot of detailed forensic work, none of which is nearly as simple as running a single type of “gold standard” test (radiocarbon dating) and getting a definitive answer. From a different type of chemical dating (decay of vanillin in lignin) he estimates his samples of the linen are between 1300 and 3000 years old - he has to give wide error margins because his particular dating method is very sensitive to storage conditions, specifically the temperature. My impression is that the decay of lignin technique would also benefit from a much larger set of samples than was apparently used to develop and verify the model. But there’s lots of other interesting forensic stuff in the article as well.
 
One historian of the Shroud mused, “Their refusal to believe the evidence is itself not a scientific attitude.” The real problem, claim Shroud supporters, is not that an ancient cloth that covered a crucified victim still exists after two thousand years. Said one researcher: “Do you think that if the ancient burial sheet of a sandal maker had been discovered with a scroll that read, ‘here lies Benjamin the Sandal Maker,’ that the scientific world fall all over itself to prove that it could not be Benjamin the Sandal Maker?”

“No. They only compromise their scientific witness because the peculiarities of the wounds of this victim reveal him to be no sandal maker, but the Son of God. If they could, they would get rid of all the physical evidence of Christianity – that Jesus lived, died and was buried. And then Christians would have nothing to believe in. Then, after two thousand years, Christians would finally die out.”

In every age, Christians have preserved relics of the persecution of the saints. What to others are mere rags, wooden boards, rusty chains – all are treasures. These serve as a testimony for each new generation of Christians – physical records of unshakable faith left behind to strengthen the age to come.

Relics were never meant to validate history, but to serve faith. Yet, it is for this harrowing moment in the history of Christian persecution that the relics of Christ’s passion confront an unbelieving age.

Despite the derision of skeptical scientists and the fast-buck authors who would cash in on a supposed debunking of the Shroud, history, science, medicine and art present a providential reality that is difficult to dismiss for those who must answer the question: “Who do you say that I am?”

The evidence mounts

A few miles beyond the ancient city of Oviedo in northern Spain, there lies a high valley hidden between the jagged peaks of the Asturian mountains. The last cart road up the mountain gives way to a rocky path tramped in modern times only by goats and shepherds. At the summit of Mon Sacro there stands today a rare octagonal church built by the Knights Templar after northern Spain had been liberated from the Moslems. The warrior monks built their secret church over the cave that once held the Sudarium of Christ, described in the Gospel of John as “the cloth which had been around Jesus’ head.” (John 20: 6-7)

Four hundred years before the triumphant Templars commemorated the hallowed ground, Alphonso the Chaste, king of Asturias, huddled there with the remnants of his army. Below him to the south on the Castillian plain he watched the advancing enemy. Spain lay under Moorish domination; the terrified Christians had all fled or been subjugated. Only Alphonso’s weary band remained to fight for Christian Spain. The king, a devout man, understood that he guarded more than the last scrap of Christian Spain – he guarded the Sudarium Domini, the linen that had covered the face of his crucified Savior.

wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37956
 
Last night on Fox a scientist said everything except the carbon dating pointed to the authenticity of the shroud. He is Jewish but said he was convinced it was not man- made and was disappointed that after being in the same room with the shroud for days and nights that they were given a compromised section of the cloth for dating purposes.
 
New scientific analysis of the Shroud of Turin has detected a second, faint facial image on the cloth, raising new questions for those who argue that the image on the Shroud was created by an ingenious human artist.

The latest studies of the Shroud-- widely believed to be the cloth in which Jesus Christ was buried-- also have produced a more accurate image of the face imprinted on the cloth.

The new research, presented on the Shroud Story web site, used computerized image-enhancement techniques to correct the image of the bearded man’s face found on the Shroud. That image shows an unusually long, narrow face. But when researchers filtered out distortions caused by the fabric of the cloth, the face became more normal in appearance.
As they eliminated the patterns of the fabric from the images on the Shroud, researchers from the University of Padua, Italy, also made the remarkable discovery that a second, faint image of a man’s face-- previously undetected, despite years of study-- was visible on the back side of the cloth.

The finding of this second facial image “virtually eliminates artistic methods” as a plausible explanation for the image on the Shroud, argues Daniel Porter on the Shroud Story web site. The notion that some medieval genius could have found a method of producing an image which is 21st-century scientists cannot explain-- and then would have produced another mysterious image that would remain undetected for several centuries-- is too far-fetched to bear scrutiny, he observes.

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=35810
 
From UPI —Washington, DC, Mar. 18 (UPI) – Science photographer Barrie Schwortz considers it ironic that he, an Orthodox Jew, is spending much of his time trying to convince Christians that the Turin Shroud may well be an artifact of Jesus.

As Christendom is entering the holiest season in the church year, Schwortz joined a group of international scholars Friday appealing to Cardinal Severino Poletto, archbishop of Turin, to permit a new carbon dating of the 14-foot cloth bearing the features of a crucified man.

At the last test of this kind in 1988, a majority of scientists concluded that the Shroud was woven between 1260 and 1390 A.D. – and that the images on it were the work of a medieval artist.

But earlier this year chemist Raymond N. Rogers, a retired fellow of Los Alamos National Laboratory, stated in a scientific paper that the 1988 test was “not valid for determining the age of the Shroud.”

"…Schwortz was STURP’s “documenting photographer” then. “I am still Jewish,” he said, “yet I believe the Shroud of Turin is the cloth the man Jesus was wrapped in after he was crucified.”

“That is not meant as a religious statement,” Schwortz cautioned, “but one based on my privileged position of direct involvement with many of the serious Shroud researchers in the world, and a thorough knowledge of the scientific data, unclouded by media exaggeration and hype.”

“…In the meantime though, other astonishing news is coming in about the Shroud. University of Padua researchers have detected a second facial image, though faint, on the back of the cloth…”

"…The face looked much like the portrayal of the young Jesus by the German Renaissance painter Albrecht Duerer (1471-1528), observed the Milan newspaper, Corriere della Sera. On the other hand, the paper mused, “it would probably also have pleased Tizian (Titian).”

washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050318-040533-4494r.htm
 
Bobby Jim:
I tried that link, and it didn’t give me access.

I had downloaded the PDF before, from an equivalent link on Wikipedia’s entry on the shroud. I am not on my PC at work, so it’s not university access getting me this one, therefore it should work for most people.

That link is:

For html: Studies on the radiocarbon sample from the shroud of turin

For PDF: Studies on the radiocarbon sample from the shroud of turin

There are a few differences in the URL that I assume make the difference … and since it’s on Wikipedia for public access, I assume it’s okay. The Wikipedia link: Shroud of Turin

God bless,
Stephen
 
I heard there was DNA on the shroud. Wouldn’t it be great if the DNA matched other things like the Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano? That DNA was found to be perfect and compact, unlike ours. There is much science can do to verify the supernatural nature of many old miracles, still with us. But , many still don’t believe. Faith is truly a gift from God.
Look at the Jews in Jesus’ time. “Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath”.
Think about it. Miracles were coming in such abundance from this man, that it became the ordinary. If someone was performing true miracles enmasse today, millions would flock to him. They would be astounded. Not haphazard about the whole thing.
But, “They see and do not perceive, they hear and do not believe. But to you…” Thanks Lord.
 
Some scientists say the shroud was made around 1200 AD, but the image is like a photographic negative and no one has been able to tell “how” someone in the 13th century could produce such an image.

Some scientists say there are traces of red paint where blood is supposed to be thus proving it is a fake. Yet, there have been many instances where someone will “touch-up” a relic in such a way to bring out or highlight fading details.

Because the image is a surface image, one scientist explained it could have been made if the body enshrouded became powerfully brilliant light and eminated through the cloth leaving a surface negative image. This one is interesting as Matthew’s account of the resurrection would confirm this. (Once his account is placed in the proper chronological order.)

Thal59
 
harvestrain0.tripod.com/id12.html
Coins Pollens, blood, 3d imagery, dirt from Israel on the mans feet area-the second face (faint as it is on the back of the shroud and just discovered this year)-technically correct forensics -a man crucified correctly as the romans did it, not as art depicted incorrectly- flogged with a roman style flog and shown that it was two seperate men flogging from different positions- as recorded in the flogging patterns- Correct style of crown of thorns wounds as in accordance to the type of thorns that would have been used. bruising on the knees as in a fall- beard missing as recorded that Jesus’ beard was plucked out Broken nose wounds on the shoulders as would have been sustained from carrying the cross. Blood mixed with water from studying the flow from the chest wound as also recorded in the Gospels from a Roman soldier Lance…etc- and all in perfect negative form that only when photographed becomes a detailed positive revelation-

manintheshroud.org/Images/flagrum.jpg

-linkAutopsy of the Man on the Shroud results

http://www.coinsite.com/content/Articles/images/Turin-shroud.jpg

Boy! You know what? choose your supernatural origin-

if it isn’t the burial shroud of Jesus.

http://www.ufoarea.com/pictures/shroud.gif
http://home.hetnet.nl/~shroud-enhanced/001.Shroud.JPG
You take the latest year time frame 1300 something.

The only thing they had to study something like the Shroud would be up close examinatioThe concepts as to what to look for or the means was unknown back then. Remember the discovery of germs wasn’t until the the middle 1800’s. The first microscope was at the beginning of 1600 -magnification around 25x and not to many of those for quite a while.

Someone who could not have known possibly how to fool modern science had discovered some pretty remarkable techniques that would have never have been detected or needed above and beyond the concepts of human discovery and for what? to still even fool us to this day as no one can explain it still, not EVEN YOU! Unless of course it is the same cloths left at the first century in a carved out tomb in Jerusalem as recorded in the most printed book in history. The Linen cloth and the face cloth
 
http://www.duke.edu/~adw2/shroud/images/still4.jpg

http://www.duke.edu/~adw2/shroud/images/still11.jpg

http://www.duke.edu/~adw2/shroud/images/still10.jpg

PDF STUDY THE FACE CLOTH details of findings

IMAGE-link

PDF The nature of the body image of the Shroud- Science

Now let’s get back into a Gilbert R. Lavoie’s book called “Resurrected”. He’s got a few more things that I think it’s important to review.

We know from the pollen and faint flower images that the shroud originated from Jerusalem in the spring of the year.

Historians traced the shroud to Constantinople in 944 and tell us that there was an ancient cloth called the Image of Edessa that goes back to the first century. This ancient cloth was in the East and is said to have an image of Jesus that was “not made by the hands of man”.

The image is complex, containing photographic information but of a three-dimensional quality, as well as x-ray-like information.

Magnified photographs of the image demonstrate no paint and the scorched yellowness of only the top most fibers of the threads are responsible for the image. Technology to this date has not been able to reproduce this complex image at the microscopic level.

The shading is more like the technology of newspaper print – –
“if you want to make an area darker, you put in more dots.”

What looks like blood has been chemically substantiated to be blood, serum is present.

The blood came first, the image second.

The Sudarium is sometimes called the other Shroud, or more correctly the face-cloth of Christ. Scientists believe it was put over the head of a corpse as part of a Jewish custom when the death was so awful that the family wouldn’t see the face going into rigor mortis. The Sudarium is referred to in John 20:5-8. It was placed over Jesus’ face on his way to the tomb so that his mother especially would be spared more anguish. Unlike the Turin Shroud which has an image of a crucified man, there is no image on the Sudarium, it contains stains of blood and lymph. The linen of the Shroud is a fine herringbone weave but the Sudarium is rough weave and looks like muslin. Very few people even in Spain knew of the Sudarium until recently. It was only when Mgr Ricci, who was studying the Shroud, went through church archives, discovered that there was another cloth which had been in Oviedo since the 800’s. So Mgr Ricci decided it had to be tested because if it had similarities with the Shroud it had important corroborating evidence. That was 1969. With the coming into being of the Spanish Society for the Study of the Sudarium in 1987 it became popularly known. Before that it was known only be very few. Now the Sudarium is preserved in the Camara Santa (special chapel built for the Sudarium) of the Cathedral in Oviedo, Spain.

John 20 says this cloth was separate from the other linens. He says it was the one that over the face of Jesus. There are three sets of stains on the Sudarium. The first set of stains is from the coagulated blood from the crowning of thorns. The Sudarium would have been over the head of Jesus for about 45 minutes. During that time Joseph of Arimathea would have gone to Pilate and the body would have been removed from the cross. We don’t know if the crossbar of the cross was taken down or only the body taken down. When the body was taken down a second set of stains was made. The cause of death in crucifixion is asphyxiation, fluid building up in the lungs. When the body is put in a horizontal position this fluid exits through the mouth and nose. This fluid is six parts lymph and one part blood. From the Sudarium scientists can calculate how long the body was in the horizontal position. A third set of stains was made the body was lifted and taken to the tomb. There is a thumb mark on the Sudarium pushing it against the face of Jesus, probably put there by Joseph of Arimathea or John or somebody else. People can judge the size of that person by the size of the thumbprint.

The Shroud was placed over Jesus in the tomb because the women intended to come back on Sunday morning and wash the body. There is no imprint on the Sudarium because the Sudarium was not on Jesus at the moment of the Resurrection. We believe that the Shroud received its image due to the burst of radiation energy at the moment of the Resurrection.
 
This Sudarium speaks to unbelieving scientific men. The markings on the Sudarium show distinct facial geometry, e.g. cheekbones and eyebrows. Because Jesus had been so beaten there are precise blood marks of the face on the Sudarium. NASA scientists placed the image of the Sudarium and the shroud over each other and they match perfectly. For most of us the pattern doesn’t make sense but they can judge the size of the skull, the length of the nose etc. In one corner there are three dots from the three puncture marks from the crown of thorns

Three species of pollen on the Sudarium match the pollen on the Shroud. The Sudarium contains pollen from Palestine, Africa, and Spain, tracing its journey. The history of the Sudarium is not as well documented as the Shroud. There is pollen from Syria, Turkey, Greece and France on the Shroud showing that it took a completely different route into Europe than the Sudarium. The blood type on both is the same. Scientists know both cloths touched the same face within a few hours

http://www.skepticalspectacle.com/images/sudariumrev.jpg
 


The experiments with the model head and the study of the stains also show that when the man died his head was tilted seventy degrees forward and twenty degrees to the right. This position further suggests that the man whose face the sudarium covered died crucified.

There are smaller bloodstains at the side of the main group. It would appear that the sudarium was pinned to the back of the dead man’s head, and that these spots of blood were from small sharp objects, which would logically be the thorns that caused this type of injury all over Jesus’ head.

The medical studies are not the only ones that have been carried out on the sudarium. Dr. Max Frei analysed pollen samples taken from the cloth, and found species typical of Oviedo, Toledo, North Africa and Jerusalem. This confirms the historical route described earlier. There was nothing relating the cloth to Constantinople, France, Italy or any other country in Europe.

An international congress was held in Oviedo in 1994, where various papers were presented about the sudarium. Dr. Frei’s work with pollen was confirmed, and enlarged on. Species of pollen called “quercus caliprimus” were found, both of which are limited to the area of Palestine.

Residues of what is most probably myrrh and aloe have also been discovered, mentioned directly in the gospel of john, 19:39-40, “Nicodemus came as well…and he brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes…They took the body of Jesus and bound it in linen cloths with the spices, following the Jewish burial custom.”

The stains were also studied from the point of view of anthropology. The conclusion was that the face that had been in contact with the sudarium had typically Jewish features, a prominent nose and pronounced cheekbones.

Finally, the very fact that the cloth was kept at all is a sign of its authenticity, as it has no artistic or monetary value at all. All the studies carried out so far point in one direction, with nothing to suggest the contrary the sudarium was used to cover the head of the dead body of Jesus of Nazareth from when he was taken down from the cross until he was buried.
 
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