Shutting down Protests

[Charlotte408]

*mods feel free to move/rename/what have you as appropriate…

Its not ‘news’ because its not on the news, and I dont have an article, but, its a video of something that happened…I guess 6 military vets were protesting at a park in DC about DADT…and the white house shut down the park?? kicked everyone, media, out- is this what they mean by ‘facism’??? I’m very serious, not trying to kick up dirt or anything but, really, is THAT what they mean by facism??? Can they DO that? I thought everyone had a right to protest, we could all go into parks…I just dont understand. I’m being very sincere and just curious…I dont want to get all bent out of shape if this is legal and ok…know what I mean??

youtube.com/watch?v=FaBk1dUF9nM

 

[SpaceNeedle]

*U.S. Parks Police spokesman David Schlosser tells POLITICO his service erred in pushing the reporters back, and stressed that the White House played no role in the move.

“That was strictly the U.S. Parks Police that screwed up – that has nothing to do with the Secret Service of the White House or the Administration,” said Sergeant Schlosser. “We had some young officers who, when they were told to move the people back – which we typically do when we’re going to make arrests - they moved the people back a lot further than we typically do. That was a rookie, amateur error and they screwed up on that.”*

I feel sorry for these openly gay service members…I know they feel marginalized…but it’s such a sticky wicket.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

*U.S. Parks Police spokesman David Schlosser tells POLITICO his service erred in pushing the reporters back, and stressed that the White House played no role in the move.

“That was strictly the U.S. Parks Police that screwed up – that has nothing to do with the Secret Service of the White House or the Administration,” said Sergeant Schlosser. “We had some young officers who, when they were told to move the people back – which we typically do when we’re going to make arrests - they moved the people back a lot further than we typically do. That was a rookie, amateur error and they screwed up on that.”*

I feel sorry for these openly gay service members…I know they feel marginalized…but it’s such a sticky wicket.

lol, sticky wicket… sorry, off topic, but it made me laugh…

 

[Charlotte408]

lol, sticky wicket… sorry, off topic, but it made me laugh…

The sticky wicket one went over my head guys, lol, sorry

But isnt that against the law?? I mean, they didnt just ‘move people back too far’, they closed the park. Arent they supposed to allow peaceful assembly? And isnt it against the law to prevent more people from joining the assembly? I know they say that it was the ‘park police’…but really? Just because it was them that physically went out there…idk…or am I getting into the realm of ‘conspiracy theories’ LOL…

 

[SpaceNeedle]

The supervisor of the erring employees has apologized and assured the public this won’t happen again; that young officers will be better trained to respond to these scenarios in an appropriate manner. I don’t know what more can be asked of him, or anyone involved. Can’t we just forgive the situation that has been apologized for, and move forward?

 

[Charlotte408]

The supervisor of the erring employees has apologized and assured the public this won’t happen again; that young officers will be better trained to respond to these scenarios in an appropriate manner. I don’t know what more can be asked of him, or anyone involved. Can’t we just forgive the situation that has been apologized for, and move forward?

Oh yeah, sure. It just seems funny to me that a WHOLE park was shut down, and it was blamed on ‘young police officers’. I mean, did they just hire the ENTIRE staff the day before? Is EVERY one of them under 25?? Was there NO ONE there with seniority? Do they just ‘shut down’ parks without an authoritative ‘go ahead’??

I just find it hard to believe that every one of these officers was ‘young and not trained properly’. That they didnt have a higher officer somewhere they had to get permission from before closing the park…That no one noticed and stopped them from doing it…even though there were masses of people trying to get in, including the media…

I find it even weirder that the media hasnt covered, this cover up…LOL.

But your right…all answers that no one will ever get, so we might as well just accept it and move forward. puts blinders back on and forgot what she saw.

 

[Charlotte408]

I think I would be better sold if the supervisor came out and apologized for himself. I find it hard to believe that an effort of this magnitude could have happened without him saying, ‘ok- clear them out’. If HE had come out and said, ‘I’m sorry, I’m young, havent been on the job long, not trained properly, told them to shut down the park - I was wrong’

then ok…but, like I said, hard for me to believe ALL of these police acted on their own accord & were not trained properly…

 

[1ke]

But isnt that against the law?? I mean, they didnt just ‘move people back too far’, they closed the park.

Well, no it’s not illegal to close a park.

Arent they supposed to allow peaceful assembly?

In many places one must have a permit in order to assemble. I do not know if that is the case in this particular case.

Individuals have the right to be on public sidewalks, in public parks, etc, but groups do not have an unlimited right to “assemble” in protest, march, etc. That typically requires a permit.

And isnt it against the law to prevent more people from joining the assembly?

No.

I know they say that it was the ‘park police’…but really? Just because it was them that physically went out there…idk…or am I getting into the realm of ‘conspiracy theories’ LOL…

Yes, I do believe this has an element of conspiracy theory to it.

 

[1ke]

Oh yeah, sure. It just seems funny to me that a WHOLE park was shut down, and it was blamed on ‘young police officers’…

The whole park is only 7 acres. Lafayette Park is not a large park, it’s more like a patch of grass less than one block long and one block wide.

And, they were moving people back because they were going to arrest the protesters who had handcuffed themselves to a fence.

 

[rick43235]

I feel sorry for these openly gay service members…I know they feel marginalized…but it’s such a sticky wicket.

That has to be the best line I have ever read on CAF.

 

[Charlotte408]

1ke-

Thank you for clearing that up for me, I feel much better about all it now

 

[Charlotte408]

That has to be the best line I have ever read on CAF.

awwww!! cm’on guys!!! let me in on it!!

what the hecks a ‘wicket’…nah whatever I’m gonna go to ask.com…watch!

 

[Zoe_Brain]

A correction. Not all of the arrested servicepeople were gay. One is a disabled veteran, whose only income is from the pension she receives for her service-related disability. And as a disabled veteran in receipt of a pension, she is deemed in the active reserves, and subject to the UCMJ - the Universal Code pf Military Justice.

She’s also transsexual, and anyone revealed as such while serving would be dismissed with or without DADT in place. She can gain nothing from this, and stands to lose her only source of income, meagre as it is.

Worse… this is how Trans people are often treated when arrested. Not charged, not tried, not convicted… just arrested:

December 1997. After an appearance in a Local Court, bail was refused and Ms M. was remanded in custody. Late on 22 December she was transported to a remand and reception centre where that night and into the morning of December 23 she underwent induction assessment. She was identified as transgender by the welfare officer and it was determined she should go into a “protection” wing. Having spent December 24 in court Ms M. spent December 25 and 26 in “strict protection”. During this time she was brutally raped at least twice during daylight hours. The attacks were so vicious that two other prisoners took the unusual step of reporting the incidents and giving sworn evidence. On December 27 Ms M. was found dead in her cell hanging by a shoelace.

Here’s a video

commercialappeal.com/videos/detail/video-suspect-beating

The charges against the victim were dropped. But after saying she’d be testifying about the beating, she was shot execution-style shortly thereafter. Neither that, not any of the other half-dozen murders of transwomen in Memphis over the last two years have been solved, even though the homicide clear-up rate there is 90%.

Here’s the protestors.



My friend, Petty Officer Autumn Sandeen, is on the left of the picture. She knew the risk, so the minor manhandling, the deliberate humiliation, insults and slurs when in custody were no surprise. An issue for “normal people”, but for us, par for the course, not worth worrying about. There were no serious assaults, and she’s unharmed from her ordeal. She thought she probably would be, the risk of death from being arrested is not greatly higher for us than that from serving three tours of duty in Afghanistan. Perhaps ten times higher, no more.

I don’t expect people here to understand this.

 

[Benadam]

A correction. Not all of the arrested servicepeople were gay. One is a disabled veteran, whose only income is from the pension she receives for her service-related disability. And as a disabled veteran in receipt of a pension, she is deemed in the active reserves, and subject to the UCMJ - the Universal Code pf Military Justice.

She’s also transsexual, and anyone revealed as such while serving would be dismissed with or without DADT in place. She can gain nothing from this, and stands to lose her only source of income, meagre as it is.

Worse… this is how Trans people are often treated when arrested. Not charged, not tried, not convicted… just arrested:

Here’s a video

commercialappeal.com/videos/detail/video-suspect-beating

The charges against the victim were dropped. But after saying she’d be testifying about the beating, she was shot execution-style shortly thereafter. Neither that, not any of the other half-dozen murders of transwomen in Memphis over the last two years have been solved, even though the homicide clear-up rate there is 90%.

Here’s the protestors.

http://www.queerty.com/wp/docs/2010/04/autumnchoi9350.jpg

My friend, Petty Officer Autumn Sandeen, is on the left of the picture. She knew the risk, so the minor manhandling, the deliberate humiliation, insults and slurs when in custody were no surprise. An issue for “normal people”, but for us, par for the course, not worth worrying about. There were no serious assaults, and she’s unharmed from her ordeal. She thought she probably would be, the risk of death from being arrested is not greatly higher for us than that from serving three tours of duty in Afghanistan. Perhaps ten times higher, no more.

I don’t expect people here to understand this.

Zoe, some of us do. There is an ontological misjudgement attached to the physicality of the transgendered. That the very existence of a transgendered person is a purposefull and maliscious intrusion of disorder upon order.

 

[Dale_M]

awwww!! cm’on guys!!! let me in on it!!

what the hecks a ‘wicket’…nah whatever I’m gonna go to ask.com…watch!

As I always understood it, the phrase “a sticky wicket” is a term from the game of cricket. It since made its way into wider discourse to describe a difficult situation.

However, Americans are typically unacquainted with cricket, and with youthful indiscretion and interests being what they are, I suspect the phrase has evolved an unpleasant meaning in American slang. You may want to drop your investigation.

As for the cop who chased away reporters from Lafayette Park, from the news footage, it seems only to have involved one policeman. I don’t doubt he has been better instructed.

Since two of the protesters also chained themselves to the White House fence in March, I think we can expect the event will happen again. I highly doubt the press will be shooed away then.

 

[Dale_M]

There is an ontological misjudgement attached to the physicality of the transgendered. That the very existence of a transgendered person is a purposefull and maliscious intrusion of disorder upon order.

Bendam, I’m sorry for being dense, but are you endorsing that view or calling it a misjudgment?

 

[Benadam]

Bendam, I’m sorry for being dense, but are you endorsing that view or calling it a misjudgment?

I’m calling it a profound misjudgement of what it is to be a transgendered person. That the physical charateristics of a transgendered person inherently lack malicious purpose but embodies malicious purpose in the popular mind.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

Zoe, some of us do. There is an ontological misjudgement attached to the physicality of the transgendered. That the very existence of a transgendered person is a purposefull and maliscious intrusion of disorder upon order.

Evidence? Or do you consider such to be superfluous?

 

[Zoe_Brain]

I’m calling it a profound misjudgement of what it is to be a transgendered person. That the physical charateristics of a transgendered person inherently lack malicious purpose but embodies malicious purpose in the popular mind.

Ah! Thanks for the explanation. I misinterpreted your words to mean the exact opposite. I crave your pardon.

I’m sorry. I’ve had to deal with people who are Bible Literalists, who don’t believe in either the germ theory of disease or heliocentricism, Platygeans and the like who see this as being evidence of moral corruption. They’re not numerous, but they are vociferous, and even influential.

Since Baker supports abortion, marriage equality, and chose a gay
running mate, he had to find something to appease the small – but
fire-breathing – socially conservative wing of his party. Enter the
Transgender Civil Rights Bill. Facing a revolt among the bigots at the
Massachusetts Republican Convention in Worcester last Saturday, Baker
distributed a flier to delegates stating his opposition to the bill
using the mean-spirited and grossly misleading name that anti-LGBT
activists use to describe it. The ploy worked. Baker won the GOP
nomination with 89 percent of the delegate vote. At a press conference
later, using his openly gay running mate state Sen. Richard Tisei as a
silent prop (looking a lot like one of those aggrieved political wives
standing by their man) Baker denied pandering to social conservatives
with the flier by restating his support for reproductive choice and
equal marriage. Baker placed a hand of the shoulder of his gay running
mate, Sen. Richard Tisei – who, by the way, is cosponsoring the
transgender civil rights bill – and the lieutenant governor hopeful
stood silent, saying nothing.

What Baker failed to mention in either his flier or his remarks after
the convention is that as CEO of Harvard Pilgrim Healthcare, Baker
headed a company that provides employee protections based on gender
identity and covers gender identity in its company diversity
trainings.

Republican gubernatorial candidate Charlie Baker pledged on Saturday,
April 17, that he would veto the Transgender Civil Rights Bill if
elected, despite having overseen a similar policy enacted when he was
employed as CEO of Harvard Pilgrim Healthcare. Baker’s pick for
lieutenant governor, openly gay Sen. Richard Tisei, is a co-sponsor of
the bill.

H. 1728/S. 1687, or “An Act Relative to Gender Identity and
Expression,” would offer employment protections for transgender people
and outlaw workplace discrimination on the basis of gender identity or
expression. Independent gubernatorial candidate state Treasurer
Timothy P. Cahill has also pledged to veto the bill…

It helps to have a sense of humour about such things.

Abortion? No problem. Gay marriage? Quite acceptable. But the same rights regarding employment discrimination for TS and IS people that he helped his Fortune 1000 company implement… no, that’s going too far.

So he wins with 89% of the vote.

You have to laugh. I mean, we have such power. All we’d have to do is announce our support for any cause, and our sheer unpopularity would make that cause obnoxious to even the most liberal voter. Maybe if the Vatican paid us to, we could take an openly anti-Catholic position, that’s bound to fill the pews. SIGH :ehh:

 

[Benadam]

Ah! Thanks for the explanation. I misinterpreted your words to mean the exact opposite. I crave your pardon.

I’m sorry. I’ve had to deal with people who are Bible Literalists, who don’t believe in either the germ theory of disease or heliocentricism, Platygeans and the like who see this as being evidence of moral corruption. They’re not numerous, but they are vociferous, and even influential.

It helps to have a sense of humour about such things.

Abortion? No problem. Gay marriage? Quite acceptable. But the same rights regarding employment discrimination for TS and IS people that he helped his Fortune 1000 company implement… no, that’s going too far.

So he wins with 89% of the vote.

You have to laugh. I mean, we have such power. All we’d have to do is announce our support for any cause, and our sheer unpopularity would make that cause obnoxious to even the most liberal voter. Maybe if the Vatican paid us to, we could take an openly anti-Catholic position, that’s bound to fill the pews. SIGH :ehh:

That’s putting the paradox to good use. I tried not to laugh but I couldn’t do it.