Sick of God Letting Me Suffer

[ethereality]

I think that this article would be helpful: examiner.com/young-catholic-in-san-jose/part-ii-our-lady-of-guadalupe-and-the-pro-life-movement-by-fr-frank-pavone-priests-for-life

This URL is broken.

I would also recommend going to Adoration if at all possible. Meditate on the fact that God is right there, with you. He has not left you alone. He has not abandoned you. Suffering is never easy. But, suffering alone is infinitely harder. You do not suffer alone.

In the USA I quit going before the Blessed Sacrament because I was tired of God not answering. Here in Japan I’ve quit going before the Tabernacle because I could no longer bear God’s absence. Nothing destroys my faith like prayer and trying to be open to an answer (together with reading the Bible daily) for a message that doesn’t come. (I have only my own thoughts, my own interpretations of the Bible.)

Similarly, I quit attending Daily Mass from trying to have some relationship or encounter with Jesus who only appeared as bread.

In short, Christianity appears false by personal experience: The Church says “X will happen,” and X does not happen. For example, ‘knock and the door shall be opened’, ‘seek and you shall find’: How long do you find reasonable the explanations, “You just haven’t been doing it long enough” or “You just haven’t had enough faith (despite your prayers for grace/faith/the Holy Spirit)”? After a certain point, enough is enough, hence the maxim, “Insanity is repeatedly trying the same thing expecting a different result.”

you do not suffer alone.

You say this, and “Jesus who is God came and suffered as well” as if other people hurting is supposed to make me hurt less. To the contrary, how others are hurting – such as Nazi concentration camps or the absence/silence Blessed Teresa of Calcutta experienced, or the persecution of people today – only appears to me more evidence of careless deism or a contradiction to the Church in support of atheism. Other people hurting causes me to hurt more, not less.

Just as an aside (since I’m angry with some garbage I hear on EWTN and read in books like St. Therese of Lisieux’s): Moreover, this argument is absurd looking at it the other way around as well: There’s theology and personal devotion to the sufferings of Christ to the effect that our sufferings born well and offered in union with Jesus on the Cross in the Eucharist (??) help or appease Jesus, that they lessen his pain. I find this idea technically incoherent, because a) his suffering was in the past and, as he said, “It is finished,” and b) our conception of the suffering Jesus experienced during His Passion does not change as a function of how much we suffer. And c) some say Jesus suffered “infinitely”, being God, rendering the entire theology meaningless. (infinite suffering + a little consolation from us = infinite suffering)

 

[ethereality]

God does not reveal himself definitively for his own reasons. I suspect it is to allow us freedom to choose, but whatever. This life is less than an eye blink in relation to eternity, can any amount of suffering within this blink be overwhelming? It is like a parent taking their child to the dr for a vaccination. It does hurt the child. But in the context of their whole life it is nothing.

This is an abuse of semantics. If this life were less than the blink of an eye, I should be glad, for it would already be over. To the contrary, I seem to have not only 9 hours left for today, but several decades left.

Read the letters of St Justin the martyr who expressed joy at the knowledge he was being taken to be executed.

This would take much time and require establishing that he actually hated going to his death and rather wanted to continue living. To the contrary, Christianity encourages death wishes (though we must ignore them in favor of doing God’s will for as long as we’re here) because it paints this life as a “vale of tears” and after death paradise awaiting faithful Christians as the reward from a ‘just and merciful Heavenly Father’. If Mohammedans captured me and declared they would execute me, I would be so happy to be through with this not-worth-living absurd life of mine.

What would make it worth living? I guess a relationship with God and feeling useful, accomplishing the tasks He’s given me. Yet it seems this is impossible for me, because after extensive searching and pleading, I’ve come up empty and God’s held back and is still hiding. The only course of action I see is to forget about God and focus on accomplishing the tasks the Japanese government has given me – utterly worldly tasks, to help people who care nothing for God and are brilliantly resistant to evangelism survive cancer at the expense of the environment (in spite of Pope Francis’ “Laudato Si”: curing cancer means generating pollution, and I am in the wrong field and too poor to do anything to change the technology). I think if you want to convert the Japanese, you must fast, pray, and make sacrifice. I don’t think street evangelism, personal relationships, or philosophical arguments will work.

 

[MarcoPolo]

not any kind of reassurance of His love.

Do you take any intellectual solace (I can see you do not experience any emotional solace) in the fact that Jesus, who is God incarnate, willed to accept terrible suffering, which was to him the ultimate injustice since he was all-innocent? Thus, must there not be some value to that suffering if he first showed the way, even if you do not explicitly understand the value of the “currency” of this suffering? And, do you take this intellectual solace even if your suffering remain?

 

[fisherman_carl]

God is a healing God.

Healing Mysteries: A Scriptual Rosary

play.google.com/store/books/details?id=yEgQzW0doWwC

 

[AKDee]

Ethereality-

Reading this thread has made me very sad on your behalf. I don’t have any wise words for you - anything I might have said has probably been covered (although I was surprised in your original post that you reject the miracle of the sun at Fatima when it occurred in front of hundreds of witnesses and was reported on in the local paper even).

I’m going to add you to my nightly prayers.

Dee

 

[ethereality]

I am truly sorry ethereality that you feel this way. You say from the Lord’s Passion it can also be concluded that “God loves suffering so much that he became Man just to experience it for himself”!
I watched a movie recently though I do not remember the title nor the details of the plot but it was about a Government agent on the trail of some terrorists and he was very committed to this. To stop him or to retaliate, the terrorists kidnapped his wife and son. They send him pictures of them booby trapped all bound up; all that separated them from instant, horrible death, was a button being controlled by the terrorist!
The agent is in agony! He pleads, he begs the terrorist to take him instead of his son. He is ready and willing to undergo whatever torture was to come his way, willing and ready to die instead of his son, why? was it because " he loved suffering so much", of course not; it was because he loved his son so, so very much!

This raises the question: Why would God require that someone suffer before He would forgive? The only reasons humans do this is because either
a) they are not able, and so someone must make some sacrifice to repair something that was broken, or because
b) they are vindictive and sadistic, and wish to hurt someone for their own gratification.

What other reasons are there to require suffering prior to forgiveness that would apply to the God of Abraham, rather than these?

 

[holyrood]

I didn’t answer your poll, because I don’t think it can be broken down as simply as that.

In one sense, I think Christians absolutely DO suffer more. I’ve often heard it said that when our prayers are effective, we’re targeted by Satan, trying to knock us back, trying to take another soul from God. Why would he bother with those who are luke warm or uninterested in God? He already has them.

I do feel that as I remain persistent in my faith, the attacks increase. Sometimes it feels like I can barely turn around without another crisis hitting, and often have multiple crises in a week. I have on occasion asked a friend, am I just missing that everyone else has this much stuff happen, too? He assures me no, there does seem to be a lot hitting me, constantly.

On the other hand, I would say Christians suffer about the same as everyone, because life is simply hard for all of us. Everybody has heartache and difficulty.

On the third hand…I would say Christians suffer less because they have joy and hope in God, angels, prayer, and miracles, and hope in eternal glory, which others often lack. I have a friend who in many senses has a much easier life than I do–but I also know that he’s in a major depression that has a lot to do with the way he’s chosen to live his life without God.

 

[holyrood]

Because it’s a separate issue, I’m posting it separately:

I struggle with the same feelings you do, OP. 11 years ago, after years of trying, XH and I (still married at the time), managed to move close to family. It was supposed to be good, be with family again, kids having a chance to have big family holidays, extended family, etc.

Within 9 months of arriving, it all fell apart, very long story short–alcoholic dysfunctional family of origin, lying cheating husband driving us into financial disaster, and divorce.

Top it off with my parents telling me and anyone who will listen that I’m a lousy mother, when in fact, I’m dealing with two boys with ADHD and autism, while trying to maintain financial stability somewhat on my own for a large family. I have had months on end where I’m called into school nearly every day to deal with them. I have had meeting after meeting till I can’t keep straight which adult is on whose team or part of what branch of what group dealing with their behavior at school. And let me stress–I’m doing it while having my family throw rocks at me and tell everyone what a lousy mother I am. I’m not only not getting any support from them, they’re actively tearing me down and making it harder.

Yes, I have done my share of asking where God is and why He has let this go on and on for 11 years now.

BUT…then I see the light shining through. It is exactly because of these things that other people pay attention. A friend turned away from his very decadent life for a long time, as a result. Someone else became Catholic because he saw something good in how I deal with these things–and is now on his way to becoming a deacon. It is evidence that God uses cracked vessels.

Also, I specified about my boys above, because just this past weekend, I took them to a craft fair I was working at, where we had to stay for 6 hours. They were all over the place–making friends with everyone. Toward the end, at least three adults told me how impressed they were with them, the great conversations they had, how helpful they were, etc. A different adult, at our church, had a gift for one of them, because he had shown such interest in his military background.

I am seeing, both in these boys and in the things I said above, that the road may feel long and dark, but eventually, if we keep faith, there are results. And sometimes those positive results come only *because *we weathered the dark.

I am able to say this now, in a good moment after hearing such glowing positive things about my boys. Tomorrow I may wake up to a flooded house or a dead battery or a flat tire or stepping in cat vomit, and struggle to see the good. But the longer I weather these things, the more often I can begin to see the light shining through, and that these difficulties have been what builds strength, patience, and other virtues.

 

[ethereality]

Note: Sorry for the delay. I am back on page 2. I am trying to read through the responses slowly, a little at a time each day, to try to let them sink in and get the most out of them.

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just put yourself in Mary’s care. Just turn it all over to her and let her comfort you.

How do you do that? It seems similar to something else I’ve tried that didn’t work, i.e. that stuff about “cast your cares upon the Lord” and “taking up His yoke, which is light”: I went before the Tabernacle, I think just Sunday evening, two days ago, and spent ten minutes praying and in silence, and went away unchanged or worse, because of God’s silence or absence. Every time I try to pray or sit quietly before the Tabernacle, it only reinforces the apparent reality of atheism: An empty church, a wooden box with bread in it with an electric candle-like lightbulb in a red container next to it, and a broken man vainly hoping for some response or transcendent experience.

I suppose Jesus’ yoke is light, in the sense that I am free of sexual frustration when I refrain from seeking sexual pleasure, but it is also heavier, insofar as the Christian must put himself third in all things.

My only guesses are that I haven’t lived chastely long enough without falling (that each time I fall my sin pushes God away, although this seems to imply a weak god rather than an omnipotent, omnipresent, loving one), and that God wants me to have absolutely no reason to be Christian so that, being Christian, my reward in heaven will be that much greater: “blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven”, although this seems capricious and unjust, if not actually abusive, i.e. doing something bad (ignoring me) so that something good may come of it (me appreciating the attention I get later).

“Oh, but God is answering you through the actions of human beings!” How do you distinguish between divine agency and human agency, in this case? It seems an incoherent statement to argue that God and man are distinct while attributing man’s response to God. (And then, capriciously, declare it’s only when man does something good, and that when he does something bad, then it’s his own agency and not God’s.)

 

[AKDee]

Ethereality- for what it’s worth, know that I am praying for you. I don’t know why things are so hard for your right now. I think another poster mentioned that you sound depressed, and that may well have something to do with it. When I read your posts, you sound depressed, angry (at God) and on the verge of atheism.

Do you really not see or feel God everywhere? I see God everywhere I look. I see Him in the mountains, in the perfection of a newborn baby, in the design of an insect, in the variety of plants, the perfection of a flower or the veins in a leaf- literally, I see Him everywhere.

Sometimes I hear Him, that still, small voice when I listen really closely. But usually I have to content myself with knowing He is there, and that we’ve been given all the instruction we need between the Church and Holy Scripture.

This brings to mind a quote from St. Faustina:

My Jesus, despite Your graces, I see and feel all my misery. I begin my day with battle and end it with battle. As soon as I conquer one obstacle, ten more appear to take its place. But I am not worried, because I know that this is the time of struggle, not peace. (606)

This IS the time of struggle. Jesus never promised us that life wouldn’t have struggles, in fact he told us flat out we’d have to carry our cross. He told us to take up our cross, and follow Him. Another quote from St. Faustina:

Then I saw the Lord Jesus nailed to the cross. When he had hung on it for a while, I saw a multitude of souls crucified like Him. Then I saw a second multitude of souls, and a third. The second multitude were not nailed to their crosses, but were holding them firmly in their hands. The third were neither nailed to their crosses nor holding them firmly in their hands, but were dragging their crosses behind them and were discontent.

(Jesus) Do you see these souls? Those who are like Me in the pain and contempt they suffer will be like Me also in glory. And those who resemble Me less in pain and contempt will also bear less resemblance to Me in glory.(446)

I will continue to pray for you. I truly do hope things get better for you. Perhaps try reading the Saints, for many of them suffered as you suffer.

 

[ethereality]

That’s the power of love…when we self-empty, quietly, generously, cheerfully (with God, for God) and for the love of others - it’s like a super-powerful balm for our soul.

Ha, I’m so glad you wrote this, so that I could read it on Back to the Future Day!

My recommendation would be to find a ministry …] And go and give yourself away with great abandonment. And as you work talk to our Lord and offer him each act of love…adoring Him, thanking Him, beseeching Him.

Two problems here are that 1) I feel trapped in terms of American student loan debt in my current career until I get out of debt, a career that treats cancer for the world’s rich (the same people causing many of the world’s problems), which seems like a nothing-accomplished job; 2) Blessed Teresa of Calcutta did precisely as you recommend but still faced the apparent reality of atheism (i.e. God’s complete absence). Moreover, people have noticed a certain brutalness to her work, that does seem to come from that fatalism that God-is-absent-Christianity brings upon people: Helping people die painful deaths, rather than easing their pain with morphine or getting them better healthcare. I don’t know whether the second charge is reasonable, i.e. perhaps they provided the best healthcare they could, but I think the first is accurate, that she told people to embrace pain for the sake of God, which, while a Christian ethos, does seem ultimately either masochistic on our part or sadistic or unjust on God’s part.

 

[Mummsie]

Praying for you. Relax. I have enough faith to share with you.

God Bless You.

 

[dedo]

I am sorry your going through this difficult period.

This thread reminded me of a Father Barron video on spiritual nutrition:

youtube.com/watch?v=dLTEDiAwWm8

My interest is in learning about, and passing on knowledge about combining nutrition for the body and the spirit. Father Barron discusses 4 key components of spiritual nutrition: Prayer, Acts of mercy, Eucharist, and reading good books.

The last category may illuminate areas where you could improve your walk and gradually feel better. It takes time. Don’t expect anything to work right away.

Another area to consider adding to the “book category” is an occasional book on physical nutrition. For example, improving diet can help mood, especially a diet that strengthens the gut micro biome (“Brain Maker Diet” by Perlmutter).

Also, reading books / DVD’s / sermons on prayer / faith etc. may illuminate more effective prayers than supplication, although I am no expert on this. However, I have found meditative prayer (Lectio Divina, Rosary) and prayers of thanksgiving / faith affirmation to be especially effective. This can include thanking God for blessings that have not occurred yet, as if the blessing has already occurred, or is certain to occur. Weekly confession is a good resource also in dark times, and I read somewhere that even Popes can do this. Of course if you get depressed, seek medical help.

Good luck.

 

[Usagi]

This raises the question: Why would God require that someone suffer before He would forgive? The only reasons humans do this is because either
a) they are not able, and so someone must make some sacrifice to repair something that was broken, or because
b) they are vindictive and sadistic, and wish to hurt someone for their own gratification.

What other reasons are there to require suffering prior to forgiveness that would apply to the God of Abraham, rather than these?

Catholic thinking generally has it that the suffering and death of Jesus was not strictly required, but that it was the best way to demonstrate for us both the gravity of sin and the lengths to which God was willing to go to have us back.

Jesus is God, remember. God did not make some other poor fellow suffer before He would forgive; He chose to become human and suffer at our hands. In the past He had decreed, “Sin is bad; to reconcile with Me you must sacrifice something you value.” And so, because He had set up that pattern, when He ultimately came to reconcile us to Himself, He did it through a bloody and lethal sacrifice of Himself.

Usagi