Sick Of Hearing About It!

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tenfootpole

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I am officially sick Vatican II. I’m not even a traditionalist but I don’t think that anything on this Earth deserves as much attention, affection, praise and excitement as Vatican II receives from so many sources. And I can’t understand the bizarre phobia of criticizing it. It doesn’t matter what it did do, cause its not God, its treated like it created the world yet it did little. Sure it said a few good words, maybe for a few days more people were interested in Church and felt like the Church was a little humble. I’m not sure what its fruits actually are anymore cause I’ve heard so much BULLS%^$. Someone please name some and I won’t even argue cause we need to get over it already.

It was a council, a council which may have attempted to confront the modern world but it failed, so I guess it must’ve done something else that noone can explain to me but can gasp in shock and disgust that a human being could feel indifferent towards it. If only these Catholics could care so much about the state of our familys’, the state of our countries… if only.
 
Golly I am going to the store to buy milk, bread, and butter-the price is high, by the way the rest of the way home it might be bad but it could be my fault. Oh well, so be it the evening is nice and could possibly not rain or it will, maybe I can build a shelf and put the rest of my books did I return by the way…
 
tenfootpole said:
And I can’t understand the bizarre phobia of criticizing it. It doesn’t matter what it did do, cause its not God, its treated like it created the world yet it did little.
It was a council, a council which may have attempted to confront the modern world but it failed.
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You don’t seem to understand the situation.

If Vatican II were a treaty like the treaty of Rome, or a major poltical initiative like the New Deal, a lot of people would have no hesitation in saying “I’m against it”. However it is a Council of the Church. If you reject this Council, why not reject Trent or Nicea? With a few exceptions, most Traditional Catholics don’t want to go down that route.

It is far to early to say that the Council has failed. It hasn’t been as immediately successful in the West as we might have hoped, though Africa and China might see things differently. If a policy fails it doesn’t necessarily mean that the policy was wrong.
 
Why don’t you read the documents and educate yourself before having a Howard Beale moment?
 
I have to say that while I don’t understand all of Vatican II, at least in my own life, Vatican II has had a huge positive impact. If it weren’t for Vatican II - and some of the changes it made, particularly liturgical changes - I probably would not even be into looking into the possibility of becoming Catholic. I would have been turned off by spending my Sunday Mornings not being able to understand what was going on (and therefore not being able to participate in it) and not gone deeper into learning about the Catholic Church. Now I understand so much more! So at least in my life, Vatican II is huge! It might even result in myself (and my boyfriend) becoming Catholic - and if we do, there is a greater chance that others in our largely protestant families will as well.

Also - as I understand it, Vatican II resulted in the encouragement of apostolates like EWTN and Catholic Answers - organizations that promote evangelism and catechesis - if it weren’t for these, I probably wouldn’t be on my way to becoming Catholic either.

Now I’m just one person… but how many others are out there that have similar stories?
 
I don’t even know who’s talking about Vatican II. I hardly ever see it brought up.

Chuck
 
tenfootpole said:
I am officially sick Vatican II. I’m not even a traditionalist but I don’t think that anything on this Earth deserves as much attention, affection, praise and excitement as Vatican II receives from so many sources. And I can’t understand the bizarre phobia of criticizing it. It doesn’t matter what it did do, cause its not God, its treated like it created the world yet it did little. Sure it said a few good words, maybe for a few days more people were interested in Church and felt like the Church was a little humble. I’m not sure what its fruits actually are anymore cause I’ve heard so much BULLS%^$. Someone please name some and I won’t even argue cause we need to get over it already.

It was a council, a council which may have attempted to confront the modern world but it failed, so I guess it must’ve done something else that noone can explain to me but can gasp in shock and disgust that a human being could feel indifferent towards it. If only these Catholics could care so much about the state of our familys’, the state of our countries… if only.
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Laudatur Iesus Christus.

I am unclear on what is being said here. The Council is the word of the Holy Spirit. To criticize it is to disagree with God. The “Council” did not make the world, but its Author did.

The only proper attitude toward an Ecumenical Council is concerted docile effort to understand its true meaning; criticism can be a tool of this effort, but it cannot be a final position, only a step on the way to insight and acceptance. The difficulty, of course, is that so many speak of a phantom called “the spirit of Vatican II” as though this were different from God the Holy Spirit. Once the identity of the Author is realized, the consistency of the Council with all previous revelations in Councils, Teachings, Tradition, and Scripture provides the proper orientation in which to read and discern the meaning of the Council.

Spiritus Sapientiae nobiscum.

John Hiner
 
Even judging from the outside, I think Vatican II did a lot of good for the CC, and helped the Church better negotiate its position in relation to the changing world. I hope it continues to reform itself in the spirit and pattern of Vatican II (one good thing about the recent Papacy is that Benedict and John Paul firmly backed the Council and its reforms, even if changing some and toning back some changes for pastoral reasons).
 
DrPiano said:
Also - as I understand it, Vatican II resulted in the encouragement of apostolates like EWTN and Catholic Answers - organizations that promote evangelism and catechesis - if it weren’t for these, I probably wouldn’t be on my way to becoming Catholic either.
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Good point. Pre Vatican II Catholic Answers would have been asked to close down.
 
DrPiano said:
I have to say that while I don’t understand all of Vatican II, at least in my own life, Vatican II has had a huge positive impact. If it weren’t for Vatican II - and some of the changes it made, particularly liturgical changes - I probably would not even be into looking into the possibility of becoming Catholic. I would have been turned off by spending my Sunday Mornings not being able to understand what was going on (and therefore not being able to participate in it) and not gone deeper into learning about the Catholic Church. Now I understand so much more! So at least in my life, Vatican II is huge! It might even result in myself (and my boyfriend) becoming Catholic - and if we do, there is a greater chance that others in our largely protestant families will as well.

Also - as I understand it, Vatican II resulted in the encouragement of apostolates like EWTN and Catholic Answers - organizations that promote evangelism and catechesis - if it weren’t for these, I probably wouldn’t be on my way to becoming Catholic either.

Now I’m just one person… but how many others are out there that have similar stories?
Click to expand...
I am right there with you on this… I became a catholic this past Easter '07. After 74 years of being an evangelical protestant!! I never would have considered joining if the mass was in latin a lang. I could not understand…
 
What’s your problem with V2? It is a Pastoral Council, it is valid, and if you are Catholic, you must accept that fact.

It seems to me that it’s likely you’re “sick of it” because of the proliferation of the misrepresentation of the documents.

Have you read them? Have you BOTHERED to take the time to actually read what they say? Most of what’s out there, most of the people talking about what V2 said have never taken the time to read the documents, but rather have had made-up stuff dictated to the, which, in their ignorance, they have continued to spew all over the place.

For example:

Myth #1: Vatican 2 turned the altar around.

Fact: Find it in the documents. It’s not there. Period.

Myth #2: Vatican 2 did away with Latin:

Fact: The V2 Document Sacrosanctum Concilium stated very clearly and specifically that Latin was to maintain a HIGH PLACE in the LITURGY and the faithful should be able to participate in those parts appropriate to them during the Mass. Gregorian Chant was likewise stated to have a high place in the Mass.

etc , etc, etc.

The Documents are not at fault. Are you aware that the total implementation of the First Vatican Council has not yet been implemented? We’re only 40 years after V2…what’s your complaint? The Church moves slowly, and this is part of what the Holy Spirit uses to combat such innovations that we’ve seen in recent years. (Recent meaning: since the 60’s)

Go read the documents. They are available at the V2 website, they are available at EWTN, and JP2 himself dedicated himself to encouraging people to educate themselves, every encyclical and apostolic letter referred to V2, especially with reference to Gaudium et spes (he really liked GS 22 and 24), and constantly encouraged people to READ THE DOCUMENTS.

The problem is that we as humanity are lazy. We want those we think are “experts” to dictate to us, rather than to use our capacity to think critically while researching the material ourselves.

I have to wonder what would happpen if we all bothered to take the time to actually read what te documents actually say rather than waste time complaining about what other people say they say.
 
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