Sidestepping Sola Scriptura?

[ScottH]

Scott Waddell:

justaccord:

It is perfectly harmonious with Scripture when you consider that Christ is the sole mediator of justice

. This is certainly the most important form of mediatorship, but nothing in Scripture suggests it is the only one. In fact quite the opposite.

Scott

It is NOT pefectly harmonious with Scripture, but if you think the church you attend is incapable of any theological error, or adopting some VERY European pagan traditions…

Look into the “May Queen.”

Then research it against the “May Crowning.”

Guys- come on- you CROWN statues of the poor woman. Should not an alarm go off in your heads? Or at least make you aske the questions?

Or is questioning just a no-no, like Luther learned?

 

[reen12]

Yeah, ScottH,

Did you see one of my posts in this thread where
I stated: “Martin Luther. Call your office.”

OR

" We couldn’t even let the poor Blessed Mother
just “be.” We couldn’t just honor her as the
Mother of the Messiah, who stood at the foot
of the cross. No. We had to produce Marian
dogmas." quote, reen12

Oh, my achin’ head and heart.

reen

 

[Max_Kolbe]

ScottH:

Scott Waddell:

It is NOT pefectly harmonious with Scripture, but if you think the church you attend is incapable of any theological error, or adopting some VERY European pagan traditions…

Look into the “May Queen.”

Then research it against the “May Crowning.”

Guys- come on- you CROWN statues of the poor woman. Should not an alarm go off in your heads? Or at least make you aske the questions?

Or is questioning just a no-no, like Luther learned?

Scott brother I love ya man but…you have got to move on brother, this topic of “crowning” seems to be what you latch onto over and over. We need to dig deeper than this brother, it’s time to move on agree?

 

[Scott_Waddell]

ScottH:

Scott Waddell:

It is NOT pefectly harmonious with Scripture, but if you think the church you attend is incapable of any theological error, or adopting some VERY European pagan traditions…

Look into the “May Queen.”

Then research it against the “May Crowning.”

Guys- come on- you CROWN statues of the poor woman. Should not an alarm go off in your heads? Or at least make you aske the questions?

Or is questioning just a no-no, like Luther learned?

What if we ask questions and still believe Christ and His one, holy and apostolic Church? Or are we just supposed to keep on questioning until we agree with Superpopes Martin Luther, reen12 and ScottH?

Repent of the satanic heresy of Sola Scriptura.

Scott

 

[reen12]

Dear Scott Waddell,

First, I’m a woman, so I couldn’t aspire to be any
kind of pope, “super” or otherwise.

Secondly, the category “pope” is the sole
proprietorship of Roman Catholicism. You
make the assumption [not to make a pun]
that I’m endeavoring to be “pope.” I say,
"Keep the category, Scott! It’s yours.
No contenders, OK?"

Disagreement = popeship? I don’t *think *so.
The syllogism doesn’t hold!

gotta go take a nap. I’m starting to
feel silly.]

reen

 

[Mickey]

ScottH:

Scott Waddell:

It is NOT pefectly harmonious with Scripture, but if you think the church you attend is incapable of any theological error, or adopting some VERY European pagan traditions…

Look into the “May Queen.”

Then research it against the “May Crowning.”

Guys- come on- you CROWN statues of the poor woman. Should not an alarm go off in your heads? Or at least make you aske the questions?

Or is questioning just a no-no, like Luther learned?

Ah yes, I’ve been waiting for Scott to finally show his true colors. Now that he has the divine wisdom of reen, he becomes a little bolder. I came across our friend Scott on another forum, and his demeanor was much different. He claims that Catholics can’t discuss their faith logically. He compares devotion to the Blessed Mother to belief in Mohammed. He says that venerating the Blessed Mother is idolatry. He mocks the rosary. He says that the Hail Mary prayer is a heretical chant. I’d just like everyone to know the type of vehement anti-Catholic you’re dealing with here. And now reen is jumping on board. How sweet.

 

[ScottH]

reen12:

Yeah, ScottH,

Did you see one of my posts in this thread where
I stated: “Martin Luther. Call your office.”

OR

" We couldn’t even let the poor Blessed Mother
just “be.” We couldn’t just honor her as the
Mother of the Messiah, who stood at the foot
of the cross. No. We had to produce Marian
dogmas." quote, reen12

Oh, my achin’ head and heart.

reen

Reen, you bet I did- and that’s why I said that your discussion was one of the best on the board today. Love it!

I also noticed the responses you got from it from people like ScottW. Have you repented of your questions yet in the “Luther Room” where they send those who don’t buy everything hook-line-and-sinker.

ScottW illustrates why I will never be Catholic. No offense guy, but here’s the difference between sola-scriptura Christians (those who put it into practice) and some of you.

We will not question your salvation (that’s between you and God). We will not question your salvation when YOU have questions. We will not assign you to some level of Hell for the “audacity” to ask anything. We will never say that any human is without error, or that tradition passed down by mere mortals (i.e. non scripture) is innerent, or “MUST BE BELIEVED.” We believe the Bible is the Inerrent Word of God. You think that condemns us to hell- as well as our non-attendence into the self-deemed “Only apostolic church.” Scripture- APPLIED scripture- is the “pure milk of the Word” that Paul speaks of.

Strangely enough, scripture doesn’t say “He who doesn’t sit in our building and take our own special, more Holy brand of communion shall burn in Hell.”

I’m amazed. I was on another site that www.catholic.com invaded a few nights ago, all because they saw my Mary questions- as well as that of others. Many flocked there to spread doctrine, and posted here about how “awful” it was that we would slander Mary. (She wasn’t being slandered! We love her as a Christian, and contend she was blessed.)

(David was a man after God’s own heart too. Where’s his statue and crowning?)

But some of you guys thought it was so awful. But I come here, and my savlation gets questioned. I would never do that to you guys, as long as you love Christ and do your best to follow his Word. I’ve never done that. But I come here, and it happens regularly. Look at Reen- who just has a few questions. Some of you tell her to “repent.”???

If that is what the Roman Catholic church is about, my study of it is done. I wish you folks all the best in your walk- but I really have nothing more to add. Max, thank you for your own personal hospitality, many here can learn a thing or two from you. I don’t agree with you- but I respect and love you as a Christian, and appreciate your kindness.

Reen- you rock. Remember what John the apostle says- “test the spirits, test all things.”

And remember- John didn’t ask us to repent for those tests.

May God bless you all.

 

[ScottH]

Mickey:

ScottH:

Ah yes, I’ve been waiting for Scott to finally show his true colors. Now that he has the divine wisdom of reen, he becomes a little bolder. I came across our friend Scott on another forum, and his demeanor was much different. He claims that Catholics can’t discuss their faith logically. He compares devotion to the Blessed Mother to belief in Mohammed. He says that venerating the Blessed Mother is idolatry. He mocks the rosary. He says that the Hail Mary prayer is a heretical chant. I’d just like everyone to know the type of vehement anti-Catholic you’re dealing with here. And now reen is jumping on board. How sweet.

Thats not all true.
The comparison to Mary vs. Muhammed is taken out of context. I was told by an RC that “Mary devotion is in our heart, it doesn’t have to be in scripture.” - I said “But don’t the Muslims say the same thing about Muhammed?”

As for idolotry, I asked you all if the crowning DOESN’T cross the line, what level would you freely admit where "reverence’ has crossed the line.

I said I could not in good conscience say the Rosary myself. I’d rather say “Hail, Christ- full of Grace.” I wouldn’t call that mocking. I’d call it scriptural.

I love you all. And I never questioned your salvation. Mine has been questioned in several areas of this forum at various times.

 

[Milliardo]

ScottH:

I said I could not in good conscience say the Rosary myself. I’d rather say “Hail, Christ- full of Grace.” I wouldn’t call that mocking. I’d call it scriptural.

I’d call that mocking. Please, if you cannot agree, then at least have respect.

 

[ScottH]

Milliardo:

I’d call that mocking. Please, if you cannot agree, then at least have respect.

I see,
So - saying “Hail, CHRIST” instead of “Hail, MARY” is mocking?

I cannot make any point stronger than Milliardo just did for me. Think about it.

 

[reen12]

Hi, Catholic friends,

I have made and distributed, freely, well over 200 shrines
of the Blessed Mother to people in nursing homes
and in a Catholic thrift shop…in case someone
wanted one and couldn’t afford one.
It took most of my free time for over 18 months.

Is it alright now if I question the Marian dogmas,
while loving the Mother of the Messiah?

reen

 

[Max_Kolbe]

ScottH:

Reen, you bet I did- and that’s why I said that your discussion was one of the best on the board today. Love it!

I also noticed the responses you got from it from people like ScottW. Have you repented of your questions yet in the “Luther Room” where they send those who don’t buy everything hook-line-and-sinker.

ScottW illustrates why I will never be Catholic. No offense guy, but here’s the difference between sola-scriptura Christians (those who put it into practice) and some of you.

We will not question your salvation (that’s between you and God). We will not question your salvation when YOU have questions. We will not assign you to some level of Hell for the “audacity” to ask anything. We will never say that any human is without error, or that tradition passed down by mere mortals (i.e. non scripture) is innerent, or “MUST BE BELIEVED.” We believe the Bible is the Inerrent Word of God. You think that condemns us to hell- as well as our non-attendence into the self-deemed “Only apostolic church.” Scripture- APPLIED scripture- is the “pure milk of the Word” that Paul speaks of.

Strangely enough, scripture doesn’t say “He who doesn’t sit in our building and take our own special, more Holy brand of communion shall burn in Hell.”

I’m amazed. I was on another site that www.catholic.com invaded a few nights ago, all because they saw my Mary questions- as well as that of others. Many flocked there to spread doctrine, and posted here about how “awful” it was that we would slander Mary. (She wasn’t being slandered! We love her as a Christian, and contend she was blessed.)

(David was a man after God’s own heart too. Where’s his statue and crowning?)

But some of you guys thought it was so awful. But I come here, and my savlation gets questioned. I would never do that to you guys, as long as you love Christ and do your best to follow his Word. I’ve never done that. But I come here, and it happens regularly. Look at Reen- who just has a few questions. Some of you tell her to “repent.”???

If that is what the Roman Catholic church is about, my study of it is done. I wish you folks all the best in your walk- but I really have nothing more to add. Max, thank you for your own personal hospitality, many here can learn a thing or two from you. I don’t agree with you- but I respect and love you as a Christian, and appreciate your kindness.

Reen- you rock. Remember what John the apostle says- “test the spirits, test all things.”

And remember- John didn’t ask us to repent for those tests.

May God bless you all.

Hi Scott,

Seems that things have not been going well here. Personally I am “stumped” when it comes to Protestants and Catholics having "good quality dialouge where both parties can walk away with their dignity in tact. Why God calls some out of the Protestant church into the catholic church and vice versa is definately a mystery I cannot understand. For myself, an ex-anti-catholic to be here defending my Blessed Mother and all the teachings of the church I love so much is indeed a miracle in my life. And when I think back to my calling no brother or sister swayed me one way or the other, I discerned a call that was as clear as the nose on my face and God changed my heart. I believe that as long as (in good conscience) we believe we have the fullness of truth we have a “mandate” to protect and uphold the teachings of Jesus Christ and His church.

Scott I sympathize because as an ex-Protestant I know firsthand what you are feeling and the frustration at what you percieve to practices of idolatry…I think what might help you and I suggest this as a brother, dig into the orgins of the church and begin to study the faith and practices of your fathers and you may at least get a better understanding placed in the context of the first and second century of the ways they practiced their faith. I find it interesting that a majority of Prots I talk with stubbornly will not look at the fathers as if there is some kind of evil there they might get infected with. But remember these are the men who safegaurded the scriptures, defined terms like “Trinity” and “Christ fully man and fully God” and set the standard for so many of the Protestant beliefs you currently hold. Study the orgins of scripture and how the cannon was ratified. As a Christian it’s your heritage as well Scott. Thanks for the dialouge friend and peace be to you

 

[Milliardo]

ScottH:

I see,
So - saying “Hail, CHRIST” instead of “Hail, MARY” is mocking?

I cannot make any point stronger than Milliardo just did for me. Think about it.

In point of the context you made, it was mocking. I think you are intelligent enough for that. Don’t play games with us.

 

[Mickey]

ScottH:

If that is what the Roman Catholic church is about, my study of it is done. I wish you folks all the best in your walk- but I really have nothing more to add.

Goodbye Scott.
I will ask the Blessed Mother to intercede for you.

 

[justaccord]

Max Kolbe:

Hi Scott,

Seems that things have not been going well here. Personally I am “stumped” when it comes to Protestants and Catholics having "good quality dialouge where both parties can walk away with their dignity in tact.

Sorry Max, it’s not about walking away with your dignity in tact. It’s much more important than that. It might feel better for everbody to treat everybody as brothers and sisters with slight doctrinal differences, but it wouldnt be the truth. The truth is that one or the other is wrong (even heretical). Catholic doctrine as I’m sure you know pronounces anathema on all non-catholics. Your church’s position is that I am doomed to Hell because I reject and even condemn the false teachings of the catholic church. My position is that – while avoiding judging anyone’s salvation – catholicism is a religion made up of lies from the pit of hell. It is a counterfeit Christianity, not worthy of the name of Christ. It elevates the traditions of men over the Word of God, trashes the 2nd commandment, proclaims Mary as co-mediatrix and even co-redemptrix – a role which biblically does not exist, and a host of other errors.

So the conversation, if it is informed, is a difficult one on its best day. It’s bound to be that way. Only one of us is telling the truth (or possibly only one of us knows the truth, to remove the implication of deliberate deceit).

You’re right about the early church fathers, though. I appreciate Augustine and Aquinas among others. But that is before the catholic church became the Roman church, and turned to the pit.

We can be pleasant to each other (although sometimes sarcasm reflects frustration) but we can’t change the basic facts: I dont know for sure but I suspect that since you’re in a cult you need the Lord. I proceed accordingly. You think (if you follow the doctrine of the church) that I’m enroute to a Christless eternity until I come back to the “mother” church.

The only difference is that your side is built on quicksand. Mine is built on the Word of God. I’m happy, as a rescued ex-catholic, with where I stand. God is a consuming fire.

 

[Max_Kolbe]

justaccord:

Sorry Max, it’s not about walking away with your dignity in tact. It’s much more important than that. It might feel better for everbody to treat everybody as brothers and sisters with slight doctrinal differences, but it wouldnt be the truth. The truth is that one or the other is wrong (even heretical). Catholic doctrine as I’m sure you know pronounces anathema on all non-catholics. Your church’s position is that I am doomed to Hell because I reject and even condemn the false teachings of the catholic church. My position is that – while avoiding judging anyone’s salvation – catholicism is a religion made up of lies from the pit of hell. It is a counterfeit Christianity, not worthy of the name of Christ. It elevates the traditions of men over the Word of God, trashes the 2nd commandment, proclaims Mary as co-mediatrix and even co-redemptrix – a role which biblically does not exist, and a host of other errors.

So the conversation, if it is informed, is a difficult one on its best day. It’s bound to be that way. Only one of us is telling the truth (or possibly only one of us knows the truth, to remove the implication of deliberate deceit).

You’re right about the early church fathers, though. I appreciate Augustine and Aquinas among others. But that is before the catholic church became the Roman church, and turned to the pit.

We can be pleasant to each other (although sometimes sarcasm reflects frustration) but we can’t change the basic facts: I dont know for sure but I suspect that since you’re in a cult you need the Lord. I proceed accordingly. You think (if you follow the doctrine of the church) that I’m enroute to a Christless eternity until I come back to the “mother” church.

The only difference is that your side is built on quicksand. Mine is built on the Word of God. I’m happy, as a rescued ex-catholic, with where I stand. God is a consuming fire.

Actually your ignorance and willing to even grasp the basics of Catholic doctrine shows how insufficient you are to even be speaking about the bible. Until you learn to construct a “cohesive” arguement and answer folks with some thought, it makes your “sola-scriptura” views look even more ridiculous! A man beating air is what I eqaute you with, a man full of venom and afraid to rationally look at his illogical belief system. I think it would take a miracle of God to get through to your hard head so I think I’ll end here. Take advice from your friend ScottH…he’s got some brains and can cohesively discuss things. You on the other hand…you need help

 

[justaccord]

Max Kolbe:

Actually your ignorance and willing to even grasp the basics of Catholic doctrine shows how insufficient you are to even be speaking about the bible. Until you learn to construct a “cohesive” arguement and answer folks with some thought, it makes your “sola-scriptura” views look even more ridiculous! A man beating air is what I eqaute you with, a man full of venom and afraid to rationally look at his illogical belief system. I think it would take a miracle of God to get through to your hard head so I think I’ll end here. Take advice from your friend ScottH…he’s got some brains and can cohesively discuss things. You on the other hand…you need help

Max,

Sorry about the chronological error on Augustine and Aquinas. But seriously, instead of rank name-calling why dont you try straightening me out? I don’t pretend to know catholic doctrine as well as someone that lives with it for a while, although I think I know it well enough to want to stay away from it. And I do study Scripture, although the more I study the more I realize there is so much more to learn.

But why dont you inform my ignorance – I thought that’s what dialogue was for.

Was I ignorant about the anathema? About the 2nd commandment? About Mary as co-mediatrix and co-redemptrix?

Part of the problem is it’s hard to determine exactly what catholic doctrine is, since every catholic has a different version of is.

So try a little cohesive argument yourself – tell me where I am wrong on a catholic doctrine. We’ll open the Word together and the documents of catholic doctrine and dogma, and see where it goes.

 

[Deus_Solus]

justaccord:

But why dont you inform my ignorance – I thought that’s what dialogue was for.

Was I ignorant about the anathema? About the 2nd commandment? About Mary as co-mediatrix and co-redemptrix?

Post a thread about each of those topics on these message board and state your position…you will get responses. This thread was originally about “Sidestepping Sola Scriptura”, then got sidetracked.

justaccord:

Part of the problem is it’s hard to determine exactly what catholic doctrine is, since every catholic has a different version of is.

It is true that divergent beliefs are held by those calling themselves Catholic, but this does not make those beliefs what the Church itself teaches. If you want to find out what the Church teaches, read its documents, read the early church fathers, not some cut and paste jobs that people do to take what is said out of its context. One of the main statements of the Church’s faith is the Nicene Creed, which I believe you would shout a hearty “Amen!” to all the principles set out therein.

God Bless.