Sideways cross necklace?

[Ckes00521]

I’ve been seeing these everywhere and I think they are beautiful. I am Catholic and wondering if this is a trend I should stay away from? Does it have a bad meaning to Catholics and Christians?

Thanks!

 

[ScareBear]

This is the first I’ve heard of these! I had to Google it.

Well, they’re being sold/worn by housewives and such. I’m not finding a definite reason or symbolism for the horizontal cross. I’m not finding any gang or sexual symbolism, but I could be mistaken. I guess it is what you make of it.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Looks like its intended for style rather than religious purposes. But as a Christian, even if your intention is to be “in” with the fashion crowd, isn’t this being disingenuous to your faith if you wear one?

 

[Ckes00521]

I don’t think it is being disingenuous at all. I love crosses and crucifixes and I love how these sideways ones look. I just wanted to make sure that it didn’t have a negative connotation toward the church. I am starting to think that it is all in how the wearer perceives the meaning.

 

[jamison]

Perhaps you can provide a link, I have not seen these.

 

[Z_Ninja]

I suppose it is in how you view them. I agree they seem to be just a fashion trend attaching the chain to the top and bottom of the cross as opposed to just the top.
Personally, I don’t really like the way they look, but I am kinda traditional and old fashioned i guess.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

To be a stylish rebel I’d have an inverted cross made out of tungsten carbide with St. Peter on it of course. All that is gold does not glitter and of course tungsten is very heavy (a weighty cross to remind of the spiritual burden we bear).

 

[Ron0742]

This subject is of interest to me because I have always envisioned “Carrying my Cross” as a great burden, as Jesus did. Not held up before me as a banner.
So, I have always envisioned it carried sideways with the center beam dragging the ground.
These cross designs would mean a great deal more to me if they were cantered to signify the dragging.
Regardless as they are they still remind me of Jesus and His passion.

 

[John317]

I’d be very careful about thinking too deeply into symbolism that doesn’t exist. If someone tells you that a symbol has a christian meaning, you’d better ask them where in THE BIBLE they got that from.

There are pagans that will say an upside-down cross is satanic, however, Peter was crucified upside-down. Jesus warned us that there would be impostors that would try and deceive us away from His word and God’s laws.

To that end, we should all be less worried about the separation of Church & State and more worried about the Separation of Church & God. The catholic church, as with many religions have many “rules” and rituals that have no Biblical basis.

I was raised catholic and belong to a catholic church but identify myself more as a Christian because I’ve come to realize the difference betweens “Man’s Laws” and God’s Laws.

Even the cross as a symbol of Jesus and his sacrifice is man made. Neither Jesus, nor the Apostles viewed a cross as a symbol to be prayed to. Jesus certainly never would have endorsed praying to Mary, someone he referred to as “woman” on several occasions, (and certainly not hailing her) and in fact said that the only way to God was through HIM.

I’m not putting down any of these things as long as we see the for what they are and don’t make them bigger than God intended them.

God Bless You and please check out John317.org.

 

[jamison]

Well you certainly threw a few different attacks in here. Perhaps identify yourself in your profile as Protestant instead of Carholic so as to be more intellectually honest. Your points really don’t belong in this thread but would be better suited towards the apologetics. You have misrepresented some Catholic stances which lead me to believe you were a Catholic that did not know his faith very well and a Protestant got to you and “showed you the way”.
Well, welcome to the forums, if you hang out long enough, you will find that the truth is, those Protestant argumens are easily dismantled. Hope you stay a while.
I’m the future, please stick with one attack at a time do they can each be handled with full attention.

I’d be very careful about thinking too deeply into symbolism that doesn’t exist. If someone tells you that a symbol has a christian meaning, you’d better ask them where in THE BIBLE they got that from.

There are pagans that will say an upside-down cross is satanic, however, Peter was crucified upside-down. Jesus warned us that there would be impostors that would try and deceive us away from His word and God’s laws.

To that end, we should all be less worried about the separation of Church & State and more worried about the Separation of Church & God. The catholic church, as with many religions have many “rules” and rituals that have no Biblical basis.

I was raised catholic and belong to a catholic church but identify myself more as a Christian because I’ve come to realize the difference betweens “Man’s Laws” and God’s Laws.

Even the cross as a symbol of Jesus and his sacrifice is man made. Neither Jesus, nor the Apostles viewed a cross as a symbol to be prayed to. Jesus certainly never would have endorsed praying to Mary, someone he referred to as “woman” on several occasions, (and certainly not hailing her) and in fact said that the only way to God was through HIM.

I’m not putting down any of these things as long as we see the for what they are and don’t make them bigger than God intended them.

God Bless You and please check out John317.org.

 

[livelife4god]

I’d be very careful about thinking too deeply into symbolism that doesn’t exist. If someone tells you that a symbol has a christian meaning, you’d better ask them where in THE BIBLE they got that from.

There are pagans that will say an upside-down cross is satanic, however, Peter was crucified upside-down. Jesus warned us that there would be impostors that would try and deceive us away from His word and God’s laws.

To that end, we should all be less worried about the separation of Church & State and more worried about the Separation of Church & God. The catholic church, as with many religions have many “rules” and rituals that have no Biblical basis.

I was raised catholic and belong to a catholic church but identify myself more as a Christian because I’ve come to realize the difference betweens “Man’s Laws” and God’s Laws.

Even the cross as a symbol of Jesus and his sacrifice is man made. Neither Jesus, nor the Apostles viewed a cross as a symbol to be prayed to. Jesus certainly never would have endorsed praying to Mary, someone he referred to as “woman” on several occasions, (and certainly not hailing her) and in fact said that the only way to God was through HIM.

I’m not putting down any of these things as long as we see the for what they are and don’t make them bigger than God intended them.

God Bless You and please check out John317.org.

If someone tells you that a symbol has a christian meaning, you’d better ask them where in THE BIBLE they got that from.

how about this…

John 4:48

So Jesus said to him, “Unless you see signs and wonders you will not believe.”

Jesus certainly never would have endorsed praying to Mary, someone he referred to as “woman” on several occasions, (and certainly not hailing her) and in fact said that the only way to God was through HIM.

you are right,the only way to god is through Jesus…Mary intercedes for us like the saints.she is after all the the mother of Jesus.so she pleads for us to her son for help/forgiveness ect…

are you a Catholic?with the language you use?

if so i think you better go back to church and have a sit down with the priest on the teachings of your faith.

what you are saying in your post is anti Catholic in my eyes.

all the very best…

 

[John317]

Well you certainly threw a few different attacks in here. Perhaps identify yourself in your profile as Protestant instead of Carholic so as to be more intellectually honest.

Part of the problem here is that you (and seemingly many of you) perceive someone questioning (and obviously disagreeing with) you as attacking. That’s a convenient way of avoid a dialog, but it’s to be expected.

I wouldn’t know a Protestant if I tripped over one. I don’t know about their “flavor” of Christianity, but it seems from your reaction that the differences seem to be over “holidays” or “holy days”. I referred to myself as a Christian because that is all that matters. I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic grammar school, and have gone through all of the sacriments and are going through them with my child now as a parent. I go to church multiple times a week. No, I’m not Protestant.

Here’s the thing. As a Christian, who is actively reading the Bible and trying to learn more about Jesus and his intentions, there’s a could of things that are clear:

• It’s ok to question your religion. Jesus questioned the Pharisees pretty aggressively.
• The Pharisees took exception to any questioning of their authority, which ultimately led to them seeing to the death of Christ.
• Jesus ignored many of the “Laws” of the time because He knew them not to be God’s Law, but Man’s Law. He blatantly healed people on the Sabbath in front of the Pharisees.

I question my religion because I an actually FOR my faith and want to make sure that Man is not hijacking it. Jesus warns about that. Jesus tells us to be on guard.

One disturbing thing about my formal Catholic upbringing is that the Book of Revelations is NEVER really taught and the Bible is replaced by a Missal. Now that I am reading the bible, I understand why. In the Book of Revelations, Jesus takes exception with all of the Churches. He acknowledges their good works but has specific issues which each and tells all of them “Repent or else”. In fact, His first order of business is to address the Churches. As a good Catholic, I’ll assume you’ve read the bible. Which Church in the Book of Revelations do you believe is the Catholic church? Or does your vanity find that question offensive? You can’t say “we are all sinners” and then believe that your church doesn’t sin.

I’m not the one being confrontational. People cannot repent until they recognize their sins. The Pope has done nothing, or changed nothing, to repent for some of the Catholic churches’ (often very public and embassassing ) sins. As a Catholic that bothers me.

 

[John317]

If someone tells you that a symbol has a christian meaning, you’d better ask them where in THE BIBLE they got that from.

how about this…

John 4:48

So Jesus said to him, “Unless you see signs and wonders you will not believe.”

Jesus certainly never would have endorsed praying to Mary, someone he referred to as “woman” on several occasions, (and certainly not hailing her) and in fact said that the only way to God was through HIM.

you are right,the only way to god is through Jesus…Mary intercedes for us like the saints.she is after all the the mother of Jesus.so she pleads for us to her son for help/forgiveness ect…

are you a Catholic?with the language you use?

if so i think you better go back to church and have a sit down with the priest on the teachings of your faith.

what you are saying in your post is anti Catholic in my eyes.

all the very best…

I really think this is a dialog that Catholics have to engage in and I’m not concerned about ruffling some feathers. The Bible is full of people getting ticked off at Prophets and Jesus because they didn’t like what he was saying. So, I don’t worry that people attack me because I care about my church enough to actively make sure that it’s based on Gods’ Truth and not Man’s Truth.

Angels, Saints, and Mary. You’re making my point. Why would someone pray to God indirectly (through Mary, saints, etc) when Jesus was quite clear the that ONLY way to the Lord was through HIM. The the most direct way or the best way, but the ONLY way. I’m not disrespecting Mary. My question is this. The last time you prayed to Mary or to another saint, why didn’t you just talk directly to Jesus?

My understanding of the Bible and one of the reasons for Jesus coming down to earth was to make it clear that there were no proxies needed or wanted between us and Him. The Pharisees (I don’t know if I’m spelling that correct) made themselves PROXIES between the people and God and interjected Man’s Laws in with God’s Laws. Jesus didn’t build his own “temple” for people to gather in and didn’t have formal gatherings (masses). That is profoundly different than the way things were. If Jesus agreed with the process and only disagreed with the laws he would have taught in the Temple and held masses and only changed the message. No?

Yes, I am Catholic, but I realize that like most “religions” and with the nature of man, there is plenty of opportunity for the nature of man to get in the way. Maybe your question “Are you Catholic?” is part of the problem. I’m a Christian first and if the Catholic Church tells me something that seems at odd with something that is said in the Bible (or not in the Bible at all), I will always side with Jesus over a religion.

What I am saying is contrary to what the Catholic church teaches. However, I am not anti-Catholic. I think that saying so is very problematic because you’re saying that the Church is above reproach even though it is run by Man and we all know Man is not perfect. There are too many example of how the Catholic church does NOT emulate Jesus, but they are well intentioned.

 

[John317]

By the way. The context of the quote that you listed about signs, etc, is not relevant to symbolism, like crosses, etc. That’s the problem with quoting versus. Most people don’t understand the context in which it was said and context matters.

 

[John317]

I’m sorry but what you wrote makes no sense. If disagreeing or questioning = “attacks” to you or others, that your own cross to bear. I guess by calling it an “attack” you can more easily deflect. Also, I made a short reference to something that I elaborated on in a personal blog. Of course I linked to it. That is the accepted protocol of the web. If you say something and there is a reference you are basing it on, you link those words. I also made mention of my blog and put a link it. Again, how is that hiding or attacking?

I almost feel like I’m in the land of robots. Everyone uses the same expressions like there is a handbook or something. Ignorance is bliss, but it won’t get you into heaven.

 

[pete_29]

I’m sorry but what you wrote makes no sense. If disagreeing or questioning = “attacks” to you or others, that your own cross to bear. I guess by calling it an “attack” you can more easily deflect. Also, I made a short reference to something that I elaborated on in a personal blog. Of course I linked to it. That is the accepted protocol of the web. If you say something and there is a reference you are basing it on, you link those words. I also made mention of my blog and put a link it. Again, how is that hiding or attacking?

I almost feel like I’m in the land of robots. Everyone uses the same expressions like there is a handbook or something. Ignorance is bliss, but it won’t get you into heaven.

It’s called a Catechism. Buy one. Read it.

 

[mgoforth]

I’m sorry but what you wrote makes no sense. If disagreeing or questioning = “attacks” to you or others, that your own cross to bear. I guess by calling it an “attack” you can more easily deflect. Also, I made a short reference to something that I elaborated on in a personal blog. Of course I linked to it. That is the accepted protocol of the web. If you say something and there is a reference you are basing it on, you link those words. I also made mention of my blog and put a link it. Again, how is that hiding or attacking?

I almost feel like I’m in the land of robots. Everyone uses the same expressions like there is a handbook or something. Ignorance is bliss, but it won’t get you into heaven.

Please realize, what you’re doing happens all the time on these forums. Someone “responds” to a thread, but instead of directly addressing the original question they go off on one or more tangents. Quite often, but not always, the tangents have an anti-Catholic viewpoint. So if it seems like people are responding to you in robotic fashion, try to see it from their point of view. To them, your style is that of a thread-hijacking anti-Catholic.

You’ll get a more hospitable reception if you start a thread dedicated to your website, instead of stealing someone else’s. Although, you should also prepare yourself for some very well thought-out rebuttals…people here are not robots, but actually smart folks who have asked themselves the same questions you ask on your blog and found excellent evidence to support the official Catholic point of view. If you do start a thread, please let me know because I’d like to participate.

 

[styrgwillidar]

John317,

Why are you even reading or quoting the Bible? It was selected by a church, in fact the Church Christ established on earth and vested with the authority to guide all people to Him. That Church has taught that Mary is to be respected and the legitimacy of praying in communion with the whole Church, with both those on earth and those in the next life.

Do you ask others here to pray for you? Why? Why not just do your own praying directly to Jesus?

I don’t understand why you are wasting your time reading the writings declared as scripture by a Church whose teaching on how to properly interpret it you appear to reject.

The Bible is not the sole repository of the faith, it is a group of selected writings the early Church determined to be scripture based on their consistency with the teachings of the Church. It was not designed as a textbook from the ground up to encompass the totality of the teachings of the apostles. It reinforced some, but not all of what was being taught by the apostles.

John 20, 30-31
30 There were many other signs that Jesus worked in the sight of the disciples, but they are not recorded in this book.
31 These are recorded so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing this you may have life through his name.

2 Thess 2:15: “Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us.”

Phil 4:9: “Keep on doing what you have learned and received and HEARD and SEEN IN ME. Then the God of peace will be with you.”

1 Corinth 11:2: “I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the Traditions, just as I handed them on to you.”

2 Thess 3:6: “We instruct you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the TRADITION they received from us.”

1 Peter 1:25: “…but the Word of the Lord REMAINS FOREVER. This is the Word that has been PROCLAIMED TO YOU.”

If you reject the Church’s authority, than what is your basis for accepting the Bible? If the Church has been wrong in interpreting and teaching the faith, why not their selection of scripture as well. Should they have included the Gospel of Peter, or the Apocalypse of Peter or other works proposed but rejected? Or their translation. Do you agree with Luther in rejecting the seven books? In changing the translation from ‘saved by faith’ to 'saved by faith alone." One word change, but it is pretty significant. Particularly as it conflicts directly with much of Jesus teachings on bearing good fruit, the necessity to act on our faith. And that addition of one word is a direct contradiction with the letter of James.

I only accept the Bible as scripture because I first accept the authority of the Catholic Church, Christ’s Church as the foundation on which it rests.

Back on topic. A symbol only has meaning once people agree to that meaning. I don’t see a problem with wearing a cross sideways as a reminder that we are to pick up our cross and follow Jesus. It does make an interesting conversation starter and could give the opportunity to carry out our duty to spread the gospel. I would stay away from the inverted cross though, it does have some negative connotations and despite you personally using it as a reminder of Peter, others may take offense. Just my .02.

 

[Zooey]

John317:

Jesus certainly never would have endorsed praying to Mary, someone he referred to as “woman” on several occasions, (and certainly not hailing her) and in fact said that the only way to God was through HIM.

Q: What is the appropriate address for the British monarch, Queen Elizabeth 2??
A: “Ma’am”.
Not “your worshipful majesty”, nor “oh :bowdown:great & mighty one:bowdown:”. Its “Ma’am”, a nice old fashioned English way of saying…" Woman".

Q: What is the appropriate address for the Virgin Mary, mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ??
A: “Ma’am”, or–Get ready for it–“Woman”, which is what you called the queen in ancient Israel. (Meaning, the :thumbsup:mother of the king, in our case, the mother of Christ).

You need to go brush up on your Warriner’s English Grammar & Composition. (If you can’t find a Warriner’s, I’ve got several someplace around here. When your mother is the high school English teacher in the local school district, you accumulate older printings of Warriner’s that would otherwise have landed in the local dump when they purchased new ones).

:tiphat:Nothing like a little proper etiquette & correction of a lack of education in the fine art of grammar, mechanics, & usage.

No, no, don’t shaw:thank me. You’d have to call ME “ma’am” and that might send you into conniptions, seeing as how you have the peculiar notion that good manners are somehow, someway, the source of all evil.:doh2:

 

[mgoforth]

If disagreeing or questioning = “attacks” to you or others, that your own cross to bear. I guess by calling it an “attack” you can more easily deflect.

John, I think one of us is confused…you say that disagreeing or questioning are not the same as attacks, which I agree with. But then I found this sentence in your latest blog post (emphasis mine):

To be clear, I am NOT anti-Catholic, but if Catholics will NOT talk about these things without attacking me, then they care more about the Catholic Church than they do about Jesus Christ. It’s that simple.

My friend, we’re here to listen to your concerns and help you understand if you want to try…but it seems like you’re more interested in preaching sermons to the poor ignorant Catholics than engaging in real dialogue. I’m afraid it’s you who is displaying a closed mind. I pray that you’ll be open to what you might learn here. To quote this Sunday’s Gospel, “Ephphatha!”, which means “be opened”. We can all see that your mouth is open and working overtime…now let your ears be opened as well.

PS - I posted a reply to your blog post on praying the Hail Mary, but it hasn’t been approved for publishing yet…I’m sure you just haven’t gotten around to that yet, right?