Sign of Cross with Four Fingers (?)

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David2010

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I recently watched a DVD of an old movie:

“Zorba the Greek”, starring Anthony Quinn, Alan Bates, and Irene Papas.
It is set in Crete and everybody speaks Greek.
It won three Academy Awards in 1964, so it is a pretty old movie.

Anyhow, toward the end of the movie, one of the characters, a French expatriate woman who ran the hotel, dies. Anthony Quinn’s character, Zorba, states that she will not get a funeral and be buried with others because she is a Frank and crossed herself with four fingers.

That got me wondering: so what? This is a new one to me. Does it matter how many fingers you use to make the sign of the cross? Is there some rule I don’t know about that says how many fingers to use? Or is this a policy within the Greek Church?
 
There aren’t any specific rules I’m aware. When I make the sign of the cross I use two
 
That was in a MOVIE, not a documentary. It was neither theologically vetted, nor would such a statement be accurate in any setting.
 
The Byzantine way of crossing is with your thumb, pointing finger and middle finger together with the thumb on top and middle of the other two. This signifies the Trinity, one and undivided. The ring finger and the pinky is tucked into your palm, which signifies Christ’s two natures, human and divine.

Never heard of the four fingers before. I know in the RC Church, a five-finger sign of the cross signifies Christ’s 5 wounds.
 
One of the breaches between the Orthodox and the Old Believers was over how many fingers were used to do the sign of the cross. Mind you in this matter the Greeks advised the Russians not to make an issue of it but they did. Of course the Old Believers would fall into true heresy by their second generation (believing the line of Apostolic Succession to have been broken).

The original way it was done was with two fingers, somewhere along the way it was changed to three. That is the standard and perscribed way in the East. I’ve never heard of four fingers though, unless they mean the standard Catholic way (and don’t count the thumb as a finger).
 
Nine_Two said:
One of the breaches between the Orthodox and the Old Believers was over how many fingers were used to do the sign of the cross. Mind you in this matter the Greeks advised the Russians not to make an issue of it but they did. Of course the Old Believers would fall into true heresy by their second generation (believing the line of Apostolic Succession to have been broken).

The original way it was done was with two fingers, somewhere along the way it was changed to three. That is the standard and perscribed way in the East. I’ve never heard of four fingers though, unless they mean the standard Catholic way (and don’t count the thumb as a finger).
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what is the currently prescribed way for the Russian Orthodox to cross themselves, in particular ROCOR
 
Montalo said:
what is the currently prescribed way for the Russian Orthodox to cross themselves, in particular ROCOR
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I don’t know for sure but I would think ROCOR would be the same as everyone else, three fingers as described by ConstantineTG. I don’t know why ROCOR would change this so I would assume they’ve maintained it.
 
Montalo said:
what is the currently prescribed way for the Russian Orthodox to cross themselves, in particular ROCOR
Click to expand...
ROCOR cross themselves like the rest of the Orthodox world, with thumb, and first 2 fingers joined and the ring finger and pinkey folded into the palm.
 
At least in the novel, Zorba demonstrates how the woman crossed herself: with his thumb carefully tucked in his palm. “She was a Frank; didn’t you ever notice how she crossed herself? With four fingers— like that— the infidel! Come on, let’s get her underground, so that she doesn’t stink us all out and infect the whole village!” I was thinking: perhaps it was a misidentification - either by the author or the character - of the usual Western manner of crossing oneself (with an open right palm)?

For the record, Zorba the Greek is actually based on a novel written by Nikos Kazantzakis (himself a native of Crete), the same guy who wrote The Odyssey: A Modern Sequel, The Greek Passion (aka Christ Recrucified), Captain Michalis, and the infamous work The Last Temptation!
 
David2010 said:
I recently watched a DVD of an old movie:

“Zorba the Greek”, starring Anthony Quinn, Alan Bates, and Irene Papas.
It is set in Crete and everybody speaks Greek.
It won three Academy Awards in 1964, so it is a pretty old movie.

Anyhow, toward the end of the movie, one of the characters, a French expatriate woman who ran the hotel, dies. Anthony Quinn’s character, Zorba, states that she will not get a funeral and be buried with others because she is a Frank and crossed herself with four fingers.

That got me wondering: so what? This is a new one to me. Does it matter how many fingers you use to make the sign of the cross? Is there some rule I don’t know about that says how many fingers to use? Or is this a policy within the Greek Church?
Click to expand...
Typical Byzantine: three together (thumb, index, middle) for the trinity. Two folded against the palm (for the two natures of Christ).

Some use a different pattern.
 
In some Catholic regions, there is the practice of making a cross by placing the thumb over the bent index finger and crossing oneself in this way. The Ethiopians make a cross by bending the middle finger down and pressing the upraised index finger against it. One finger was used by the Miaphysites and this was considered an expression of their Christology. In my Latin Catholic high school, I saw such variation in terms of making the Sign of the Cross that I began to think it was “anything goes.” 😉

The Old Believers have a rather beautiful tradition of forming both hands in the same two-fingered position and then crossing bow arms over the chest, especially when they go to Communion.

They also hold their leather prayer rope or lestovka between the middle and index fingers and move it using the index finger. Interestingly enough, Old Believers like to fall asleep at night with their right hand in the two-finger position (with the thumb and last two fingers together). They want to keep their hand at the ready to make the Sign of the Cross - just in case our Lord returns at His Second Coming or in case of an unforeseen emergency during the night.

Alex
 
Alexander_Roman said:
Interestingly enough, Old Believers like to fall asleep at night with their right hand in the two-finger position (with the thumb and last two fingers together). They want to keep their hand at the ready to make the Sign of the Cross - just in case our Lord returns at His Second Coming or in case of an unforeseen emergency during the night.

Alex
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This, I think, would be a practice that Catholics might do well to adopt.
 
RuthByzCat3 said:
This, I think, would be a practice that Catholics might do well to adopt.
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I must confess that the use of a small hand Cross in prayer has been a source of great comfort and a means of “exciting devotion” for me.

There are the comfort Crosses made in Israel from the wood of the Garden of Gethsemane and I always have one with me, one may hold it during prayer, or just holding it in silence etc.

It is also wonderful to use when making the Sign of the Cross with. I recommend it with all my heart!

Alex
 
Though I am of the Roman Rite, I learned the significance of the Byzantine and/or Orthodox way of making the Sign of the Cross & thought it a wonderful way to remind myself of the Three Persons and two natures of God. I don’t remember how I used to do it, Unless I was folding my thumb in and using the other 4 fingers to “touch”!:highprayer:
 
MusherMaggie said:
Though I am of the Roman Rite, I learned the significance of the Byzantine and/or Orthodox way of making the Sign of the Cross & thought it a wonderful way to remind myself of the Three Persons and two natures of God. I don’t remember how I used to do it, Unless I was folding my thumb in and using the other 4 fingers to “touch”!:highprayer:
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In fact, the making of the Sign of the Cross with three fingers is not exclusively Byzantine, it is also the older Roman Catholic tradition!

This is how Pope Innocent III taught how all Catholics should make the Sign oif the Cross:

“The sign of the cross is made with three fingers, because the signing is done together with the invocation of the Trinity. … This is how it is done: from above to below, and from the right to the left, because Christ descended from the heavens to the earth, and from the Jews (right) He passed to the Gentiles (left). Others, however, make the sign of the cross from the left to the right, because from misery (left) we must cross over to glory (right), just as Christ crossed over from death to life, and from Hades to Paradise. [Some priests] do it this way so that they and the people will be signing themselves in the same way. You can easily verify this — picture the priest facing the people for the blessing — when we make the sign of the cross over the people, it is from left to right…”

So the traditional Roman Catholic way to make the Sign of the Cross, until the 13th century and probably afterwards, is with three fingers!

Alex
 
Some papal teachings really are over-the-top wonderful! 🙂

Alex
 
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