Sign of Peace at EWTN

[Iron_and_Clay]

Hi Iron,

Curious. What is that picture you posted?

It is a picture of NEXT YEAR (city of philadelphia, usa). The official end of the WARNING PHASE, and the beginning of the CHASTISEMENT PHASE. Where in lies the end the RECEPTION PHASE, and the finishment of the blessings for mankind.

Ah, you asked me what is that picture I posted? It is a picture of my resurrection

EDIT

*REVELATION 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. *

I AM WHO I AM - AMBIGUITY

 

[bayernfan]

My understanding is that the modern sign of peace-giving is an offshoot of the kiss of peace given in the TLM by the Priest to the Deacon (if present). The problem that many parishes recognise is that, by turning the kiss of peace into a giant round of congregational hand-shaking, it can become a huge distraction that disrupts the flow of the Canon. I have heard one Priest in particular object to the sign of peace being used during Mass because he notices that the people will use it as an excuse to chat about golf scores or other unrelated nonsense when the focus should be fixed on the altar for the Conscration and not on chatting with our neighbours. This can be exacerbated if people start leaving their seats and running around the pews to hug friends, etc, or, in some cases, where the Priest leaves the Altar to give the sign of peace to the parishioners, thereby instilling the idea that this is somehow a bit, social event.

So perhaps the omission in the EWTN Mass may be linked with providing a more reverent atmosphere during the Canon.

Which is completely appropriate, as the laity do not need to exchange the “sign of peace.”

 

[hazcompat]

forgo the sign of peace as an act of penance

peace

 

[Snugglebugmom]

You really hit the nail on the head. Should we be turning our attention away from Our Lord? Shouldn’t our entire focus be on the One who bought us with His pain?

I sometimes think these activities are leftovers from the touchy-feely self-help movements. It’s like the we have introduced the outside world into the Mass because it makes us feel good. I am not at all sure we are intended to get those feelings from the Mass.

You see more and more of that in the Mass. I visited another parish for a recent Mass when the choir did a very impressive piece as the priest and the deacon were clearing the altar. At the conclusion of the beautiful song of praise, the congregation applauded. At that parish, the congregation always applauds the musicians at the end of every Mass I have attended there.

Hand-holding during the Our Father, applause, lay people assuming the Orans posture, loud conversations before the Mass, people blowing into the church after the homily has begun, immodest dress for Mass, the times they are a changing. Maybe it would be a good time to re-introduce the solemn into the Mass.

This! Especially the last paragraph.

 

[ConstantineTG]

It was not in the Traditional Latin Mass - it dates back for at least 500 years. If it DID exist, bringing it back was antiquarianism, something condemned by a pope in the early 1900s.

Antiquarianisim doesn’t mean you can’t bring something back. It means you don’t do something for the sake ot it being old. Besides, isn’t “traditional” just another word for antiquarianism? Oh, lets do this thing because its 500 years old.

Also, if it DID exist, then it was the Roman peace, nothing at all like the hand-shaking back-slapping that goes on nowadays./.quote]

Its not all handshaking. Its always in the cultural context. In Asia for example, there is no handshaking.
bayernfan;7399372:

As to your Rites don’t mean we don’t do what others do - talk with an Easterner about Latinizing their liturgy. I’ll betcha any money they’ll be upset about it.

You’ll be surprised that many are not. You go around CAF and you have the same number of people complaining about Latinizations in the East as you have Traditionalists crying about the loss of Latin. But in the real world settings, there’s really not a lot of them out there. I’ve lived 90% of my life as a Roman Catholic and I have never met people cyring about the lack of access to the TLM. All the devout Catholics I have met are perfectly happy with the OF and Mass in the vernacular. In my Eastern Catholic parish which by standards around here are heavily Latinized, no one is complaining.

So pony up your cash. I need to do some Boxing Week shopping.

 

[jana4ou]

Many Protestant churches also “pass the peace”. I call it “pass the GERMS” and wish we would discontinue the practice. I keep a small bottle of sanitizer in my purse, and put some on during the announcements.

 

[terrig]

I wish the sign of peace would be done away with everywhere. It bothers me because such a big production if made of it. At my church, people even go out of their pews to do this. Some are still shaking hands when the Lamb of God part begins. It’s too social and Protestant for my tastes. Before I got in full communion with the Church, this was one of my excuses for not attending Mass. I didn’t like it and it made me feel un-Christian for not liking it. It also bothers me because so many people attend Mass when they are sick. There’s an elderly woman that coughs using the same nasty kleenex in her hand and then shakes my hand. I’m sorry but this grosses me out because then I go to receive Holy Communion with dirty hands. I know that I touched a lot of germs entering the church but to see someone holding a dirty kleenex is too much for me. I miss the Mass of my youth - the reverence, no talking, no immodesty, kneeling at Communion, not all the hand raising by all the wannabe priests. I need to stop and go to Confession.

 

[Ed_Normile]

Wow, there are sure a lot of neato reasons for giving the sign of peace listed in this thread. I always thought the reason why the EWTN broadcasted mass did not use it was that is has never been condoned for use by rome, it was left to the council of bishops to decide according to local customs, these local customs did not actually exist they were just sort of introduced and explained as you now have to do this, a lot of stuff gets worked into the celebration of the mass in the U.S. this very way. The sign of peace was originally between the priest and deacon on the altar, somebody here thought it would be more inclusive for all to mimic the priest in this. The GIRM states that where it is a customary practise it is only appropriate to offer the sign of peace to those directly beside you.

ed

 

[MarkThompson]

Wow, there are sure a lot of neato reasons for giving the sign of peace listed in this thread. I always thought the reason why the EWTN broadcasted mass did not use it was that is has never been condoned for use by rome, it was left to the council of bishops to decide according to local customs, these local customs did not actually exist they were just sort of introduced and explained as you now have to do this, a lot of stuff gets worked into the celebration of the mass in the U.S. this very way. The sign of peace was originally between the priest and deacon on the altar, somebody here thought it would be more inclusive for all to mimic the priest in this. The GIRM states that where it is a customary practise it is only appropriate to offer the sign of peace to those directly beside you.

ed

The GIRM says neither that the sign of peace is to be used only where it is a customary practice, nor that it should only be offered to those directly beside you.

 

[Maudie]

For all you ‘vernacular’ speaking, Host dealing, glad-handing “Peace be with you” crowd: Homosexual and effeminated bishops have had their ‘Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds’ feeling of importance within the Church since the shame of Vatican II. And those who step into a Vatican II church on Sunday give support to their heresy.

So sing along and prance over the altar with the other girls in your white muslin wrap. This is your child of Vatican II. Catholics already have a plethora of ‘denominations’ to choose from based on the preaching ability of the effeminated rock star huckster priest or the song and dance team strumming a 12 string guitar while the girls prance around the altar in their speghetti strap blouses and short skirts while the electric key boardist pounds out that old devotional hymn ‘Jam for Jesus’.

Confession is now a ‘Priest Free Zone’, now administered by each lay person as she shakes hands with her neighbor and absolves them of their weekly pecadillos: “Bless me, Neighbor, it’s been a week that I’ve incurred these sins: Um, Two curse words, argued with my daughter about taking some of my birth control pills without asking, another lesbian encounter, one abortion…That’s about it for this week.” Absolver: “Peace be with you. Fuggitaboutit! You’re absolved. Go in Peace. And don’t come back next week, you big kidder, unless you’ve really got something to confess, like voting against same sex marriage or, God forbid, praying in front of a Planned Parenthood.” Back slapping politicians use this time to shake hands and hand out campaign buttons.

The professional lesbian busy body is now in charge of handing out the Host into your dirty little hands like a green visored card dealer in Vegas, having wrenched that responsibility away with an evil stare from the pu$sy-whipped effeminate priest, who in reality is all too happy to relinquish most other duties as well. If your still hungry after having stopped at IHop before Communion, you can ask for two. It’s not my Catholic Church.

As St. Paul says to the Gal. 1:8: “But though we or an angel from heaven preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.” No authority, not even the highest in the hierarchy, can force us to abandon or diminish our Catholic faith, so clearly expressed and professed by the Church’s Magisterium for nineteen centuries.

This Reformation of Vatican II, born of Liberalism and Modernism, is poisoned through and through; it derives from heresy and ends in heresy, even if all its acts are not formally heretical. It is therefore impossible for any conscientious and faithful Catholic to espouse the novelty of this charismatic Pentecostal Church or to submit to it in any way whatsoever.

 

[Indyann]

Peace be with you!

 

[redrosetea]

I keep my hands in my pockets and will not shake…I am sick of hearty handshakes that leave me in pain…I have nerve damage in my hands, and I don’t feel I owe anyone an explanation either

I simply nod and that’s it…I frankly am sick of all the forced familiarity with people I don’t know, and I avoid it

 

[JReducation]

I keep my hands in my pockets and will not shake…I am sick of hearty handshakes that leave me in pain…I have nerve damage in my hands, and I don’t feel I owe anyone an explanation either

I simply nod and that’s it…I frankly am sick of all the forced familiarity with people I don’t know, and I avoid it

I can certainly appreciate the physical discomfort caused by the nerve damage. A polite nod is appropriate in such a situation.

As to forced familiarity, that’s a whole other point. The Church is not trying to impose a forced familiarity. The reason that the sign of peace was included in the mass is to remind us that we approach the table of the Lord as one people at peace with God and neighbor, because if we are not at peace with God and neighbor and not open to a relationship with God and neighbor, then we are not ready to receive Christ in the Eucharist. Christ unites us to himself and to each other. This unity cannot be just words, but it has to be a goal that we strive to achieve every day. We try to comply and to fulfill Christ’s prayer that we be one as he and the Father are one.

This is why the early Fathers introduced the sign of peace into the liturgy. The faithful came to the Eucharist as one people to be united to the one Lord. In those days, because communities were smaller, those people actually had very intimate relationships with each other. We see this in the Acts of the Apostles. That’s where this is all coming from and where it is all pointing, toward the unity for which Christ prayed and which the early Christians shared as they approached the Eucharist.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[redrosetea]

I can certainly appreciate the physical discomfort caused by the nerve damage. A polite nod is appropriate in such a situation.

As to forced familiarity, that’s a whole other point. The Church is not trying to impose a forced familiarity. The reason that the sign of peace was included in the mass is to remind us that we approach the table of the Lord as one people at peace with God and neighbor, because if we are not at peace with God and neighbor and not open to a relationship with God and neighbor, then we are not ready to receive Christ in the Eucharist. Christ unites us to himself and to each other. This unity cannot be just words, but it has to be a goal that we strive to achieve every day. We try to comply and to fulfill Christ’s prayer that we be one as he and the Father are one.

This is why the early Fathers introduced the sign of peace into the liturgy. The faithful came to the Eucharist as one people to be united to the one Lord. In those days, because communities were smaller, those people actually had very intimate relationships with each other. We see this in the Acts of the Apostles. That’s where this is all coming from and where it is all pointing, toward the unity for which Christ prayed and which the early Christians shared as they approached the Eucharist.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I think they do a bit…Holding hands with a stranger all during the Our Fr is a bit overboard and I understand it will be dropped

I don’t want to hold the hand of someone who might have just blown his nose or worse…sorry to be so blunt but it happens…

 

[JReducation]

I think they do a bit…Holding hands with a stranger all during the Our Fr is a bit overboard and I understand it will be dropped

I don’t want to hold the hand of someone who might have just blown his nose or worse…sorry to be so blunt but it happens…

I’m not sure how holding hands during the Pater Noster began. I know that it’s a common practice only in the Americas. I have not seen it on other continents. You got me on that one.

As far as blowing of the nose, while I understand the hesitation . . . it’s not something that I have thought about, really. I guess in part it is because I work around children a great deal. If you want germs, buy a kid.

Last year I was also assigned to what we call “Bridge Ministry”. I and another brother would go once a week to spend the night under a bridge with the homeless. Many of them won’t go to a shelter for fear of being robbed of the few things they own. Different people volunteered to go on different nights to this one place to carry food and warm chocolate. Again, germs were never a concern for us. Blame it on my Franciscan heritage, LOL. St. Francis was a slob, but a very holy one.

I am often reminded of St. Damien the Leper. I ask myself, “What would Damien do?”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[redrosetea]

Well I don’t think he would pick his nose and extend his hand as I have been privy to observing…lol

A child might do this ,and I wouldn’t think twice about it , but not an adult male ,who then distributed the host, because he was an EM…you can see why they are dropping this quaint little custom like a hot potato… they probably got sick of hearing people like me winge about it

 

[OraLabora]

Yesterday I got to witness a very special sign of the peace. I was at the solemn profession of a new Benedictine monk (actually not so young… a converted Anglican priest). After the profession, the newly professed monk goes around to each and every brother in the stalls and gives him the same embrace of peace that is done at the sign of the peace. The sheer joy on the faces of the monks, to be receiving a new brother, and on the face of the new brother, brought tears to my eyes. It hammered home the community aspect of monasticism; I also think that just because we don’t live in a religious community (in the strict sense), we should recognize that we do live in a Catholic community in which sadly there is so much infighting, intriguing, division, etc. Perhaps this is an ideal opportunity to reverently put aside our divisions to prepare to receive Our Lord, just, as was pointed out, He asks of us.

As to the aspect of “innovation”… the kiss of peace was part of the Tridentine right but like many aspects of that rite, was held to the sanctuary. Vatican II did not “innovate” by expanding the kiss of peace to the nave; it merely recognized that we are all part of the Catholic community. It recognized that the Body of Christ is not just those lucky enough to be in the sanctuary, it includes the faithful in the pews as well.

Does the kiss (or rather handshake) of peace make me uncomfortable? Darned right it does. I’m not big on a handshake with strangers. However it’s not all about me. I recognize that I have to get over myself, recognize in myself what bothers me about others, learn to be more loving towards my neighbour. The sign of the peace does that, it puts me in direct confrontation with my discomforts. Christianity is, if nothing, about transformation and spiritual growth, and no transformation comes without discomfort. Therefore much as I would like to see this ritual removed (as it was during the H1N1 crisis, and I was relieved at that time and not for hygiene reasons), I recognize that it continues to exert a necessary influence on improving my spiritual maturity.

 

[JReducation]

Well I don’t think he would pick his nose and extend his hand as I have been privy to observing…lol

GROSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

That’s not a liturgical problem, that’s just plain bad manners. YUCK!!!

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Yesterday I got to witness a very special sign of the peace. I was at the solemn profession of a new Benedictine monk (actually not so young… a converted Anglican priest). After the profession, the newly professed monk goes around to each and every brother in the stalls and gives him the same embrace of peace that is done at the sign of the peace. The sheer joy on the faces of the monks, to be receiving a new brother, and on the face of the new brother, brought tears to my eyes. It hammered home the community aspect of monasticism; I also think that just because we don’t live in a religious community (in the strict sense), we should recognize that we do live in a Catholic community in which sadly there is so much infighting, intriguing, division, etc. Perhaps this is an ideal opportunity to reverently put aside our divisions to prepare to receive Our Lord, just, as was pointed out, He asks of us.

As to the aspect of “innovation”… the kiss of peace was part of the Tridentine right but like many aspects of that rite, was held to the sanctuary. Vatican II did not “innovate” by expanding the kiss of peace to the nave; it merely recognized that we are all part of the Catholic community. It recognized that the Body of Christ is not just those lucky enough to be in the sanctuary, it includes the faithful in the pews as well.

Does the kiss (or rather handshake) of peace make me uncomfortable? Darned right it does. I’m not big on a handshake with strangers. However it’s not all about me. I recognize that I have to get over myself, recognize in myself what bothers me about others, learn to be more loving towards my neighbour. The sign of the peace does that, it puts me in direct confrontation with my discomforts. Christianity is, if nothing, about transformation and spiritual growth, and no transformation comes without discomfort. Therefore much as I would like to see this ritual removed (as it was during the H1N1 crisis, and I was relieved at that time and not for hygiene reasons), I recognize that it continues to exert a necessary influence on improving my spiritual maturity.

Your first paragraph is very important for those who have a problem with the sign of peace. It is true that it is optional. It is also true that it has always been part of Latin Rite liturgy. Monks and friars have done it for more than 1,000 years. It’s not just the monk who is celebrating the mass and the two monks are serving. It went down the chapel to every monk or to every friar.

Among nuns it was not allowed, because women religious were not allowed to touch each other. Only the Mother of the house could touch another nun or another sister. Nuns were not even allowed to shake hands, because it was against purity for them to have skin to skin contact with another sister. They were allowed to shake hands with men, but never with each other.

I’m wondering if many older Catholics who were educated by religious sisters were influenced by their customs. Even though nuns have never taught school, our sisters borrowed many customs from nuns, including the habit. At some level, I think that they taught their students to maintain a cettain physical distance from each other. Whereas boys who were educated by brothers, friars or monks, were not taught this distance, because they saw the male religious embrace each other during mass and outside of mass. The embrace is very much a part Latin liturgy and it is carried out into the dialy life of the male religious. As you say, there is a certain joy when it happens. We never think about the Eucharist on the altar being abandoned. That’s not what St. Benedict and the other founders taught us. They taught us that Christ, who is on the altar, wants us to turn toward our brother and be reconciled and become one so that we approach as one brotherhood. If we’re not able to come as one brotherhood, then we should not receive Holy Communion at all. They demanded the embrace from their sons.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Call me grumpy, but I would prefer if it were to go away everywhere. There is nothing worse than forced interaction. I really don’t think the sign of peace means much to anyone.

A nearby parish starts with an announcement “Before we begin Mass, let us rise and greet one another.” That is a round of hand shaking just like the sign of peace, but without the exact words, so you get it twice.

I simply find the whole thing a little disruptive. Yes, I know I sound terrible because I really am a people person who loves to chat with just about anyone. It’s just that the sign of peace seems a needless interruption.

I’m NOT a people person and I’d like it to go 'way, too.