Sign of peace...

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DaughterSorrow said:
I find it odd and sad that some of my fellow Catholics have a hard time wishing peace to their fellow parishioners. If we can’t even do this without acrimony, how can we be expected to be Christ in the world to those in need? Christ asked us to love one another, didn’t he? I would forgo your sense of “distraction” and accept that this has been part of the liturgy since early early on and use it as an opportunity to show charity to our brothers and sisters in Christ.

In Peace,
DS
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I couldn’t agree more! Peace be with you and all those who complain about it. I’ve been to Mass as many have, lonely, heartbroken and yet only to celebrate a joyous occaision an share it with my Catholic family.

The healinling, joy and grace that is available to us at Mass and through the consecration far exceeds any self consiusness or monitoring of the infractious behaviour of my neighbors. Yes, we could look around on any given Sunday and make similar remarks about the lack of genuflecting, profound bows or even kneeling.

All we need to do is whatch the children who gladly, enthusiasticly and smilingly shake hands to know that we need to learn from and be reminded by “such as these” as we approach the Kingdom.

I wish many of us in the thread could actually sit near each other at Mass tomorrow.
 
FloridaPhil said:
To suggest that the prayer of “peace be with you” dosn’t work in practice atr that time is dead wrong. I’ve ofter left Mass with great fellowship exchanges and a new fiend or two, directly resulting fom offering & praying for praying peace with a total stranger.

Maybe I’m naive, but I don’t know of anyone who abuses it. I actually look forward to it as a fruit from the Blessed Sacrament.
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You need to get out more. If you want to see some really odd stuff…go to Alaska. I travel a lot and I am always relieved when I attend a Mass like you are talking about. Unlike you I don’t make any new FIENDS:eek: ,friends maybe, but not fiends. I’m sorry, I just had to do that. It sounded so funny when I first read your post.😃
 
Ok. Ok. I’m laughing too.

You’re right. I’m usually a stickler about typo’s. Too fast on a small keyboard.

Hopefully no “fiends” in church although sometimes you wonder. Kind of the opposite of peace.
 
FloridaPhil said:
All we need to do is whatch the children who gladly, enthusiasticly and smilingly shake hands to know that we need to learn from and be reminded by “such as these” as we approach the Kingdom.
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You know, I am so tired of being told that I am not Christian because I act like an adult. There are many things that children do that are not socially acceptable. Picking one’s nose comes to mind (never mind what they do with them).

Please understand that the reason why Our Lord said so many things about children is not because they were exceptional, but rather because they weren’t. Like the tax collector or adulterer, they were considered to be less than human. Until about 12, they were basically chattel. Jesus spoke about their souls being clean more than the way they acted.

That’s just too hippy for me. Find your inner child and everything will be alright.

Our Lord wants us to be warriors in His name as well as pure as a child. Childlike purity is something to strive for but acting like children is not.

I will proudly stand and greet my neighbor as an adult. Willing to treat him as I would like to be treated, in the Name of Jesus Christ, Our Lord.
 
I was to the Maronite Mass the other day and the sign of peace was wonderful, you could see it coming from Christ on the altar and spreading among the congregation.
In the (new) Roman Mass it can be percieved as coming from each person present to the others (as a common greeting).

True peace is found in God alone, and only He can bring us peace.
 
Your missing the point. No one is calling you less than a Christian, especially not me.

And, we all know that The Lord was not telling us to pick our noses.

All I’m saying is that to notice the purity of intention shining through is in no way challenging anyone’s responsible adult “adult’” behavior as less than reverent.

Sometimes "adult " behavior is anyhing but… Adult movies, etc.

Try noticing the purity shinning through; my point from the beginning.
 
FloridaPhil said:
Your missing the point. No one is calling you less than a Christian, especially not me.

And, we all know that The Lord was not telling us to pick our noses.

All I’m saying is that to notice the purity of intention shining through is in no way challenging anyone’s responsible adult “adult’” behavior as less than reverent.

Sometimes "adult " behavior is anyhing but… Adult movies, etc.

Try noticing the purity shinning through; my point from the beginning.
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No. You’re missing the point. This is what you said…
All we need to do is whatch the children who gladly, enthusiasticly and smilingly shake hands to know that we need to learn from and be reminded by “such as these” as we approach the Kingdom.
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Unless I am reading it wrong, you hint that being childlike is better than adultlike.

Again, you are telling us to watch the children when children themselves are self-centered creatures. Ask me, I’ve got them and raised a niece and nephew.
Children do not look at another person with purely loving thoughts. Some of it is a selfish “Look at me” attitude. There is nothing wrong with that from a child but we as adults do not need to look at children to guide our actions.

Sorry but children are not who we should be looking at but rather Christ himself. A big huge adult Christ.

So the inner child stuff just doesn’t cut it. We need to get out of the 60’s mentality. It’s really done a job on our church.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
No. You’re missing the point. This is what you said…
Unless I am reading it wrong, you hint that being childlike is better than adultlike.

Again, you are telling us to watch the children when children themselves are self-centered creatures. Ask me, I’ve got them and raised a niece and nephew.
Children do not look at another person with purely loving thoughts. Some of it is a selfish “Look at me” attitude. There is nothing wrong with that from a child but we as adults do not need to look at children to guide our actions.
Sorry but children are not who we should be looking at but rather Christ himself. A big huge adult Christ.

So the inner child stuff just doesn’t cut it. We need to get out of the 60’s mentality. It’s really done a job on our church.
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Having children — I agree. Doesn’t take much for a child to turn something into fun and games.
 
The Exchange of Peace in the Maronite rite is a very special part of the Liturgy. The priest recites:

“Peace to you, O holy altar of God.
Peace to the holy mysteries placed upon you.
Peace to you, O minister of the Holy Spirit.”

The priest then proceeds over to the deacon and/or alter boys. The deacon and/or alter boy places his hands over the priests in a traditional prayer like fashion and pulls back with his hands, and proceeds down the nave (making the appropriate bows of course) to the person in front of each pew. Each person then turns and gives the exchange of peace (prayer hands clasping one another, pulls back) to the person next to them and so forth. Kissing the cheeks is very popular at this point, including strangers 😛 It is what you get for going to a Lebanese Church, and an Eastern Church at that, kissing is an ancient Christian symbol.

I personally like the Exchange of Peace in my church, it is reverent, traditional and a wonderful witness to the fact that the community is built upon the love and peace of Christ.

For those who are worried about hygiene, we don’t take the Body and Blood of Christ with our hands, so it is a non issue. If you can, make it over to a Maronite Catholic Church and see what it is like.
  • Yeshua
 
I heard the word “acrimony” used a couple of times in some posts. That’s a pretty strong word to use for a difference of opinion. I don’t think there is any bitterness or animosity involved here. I have enjoyed reading everyone’s viewpoint. I would like to suggest that we all look around the church tomorrow and observe the many reactions to the Sign of Peace. As for watching the children; my young granddaughter would scream if a stranger tried to grab her hand. She is shy and she is an introvert, like many children. Does that mean she needs a drug to overcome “social anxiety disorder”(part of a drug ad I saw on TV)? I for one don’t think so. I like all the different types of people we have on this planet and would hate for us all to be the same.
 
yeshua said:
The Exchange of Peace in the Maronite rite is a very special part of the Liturgy. The priest recites:

“Peace to you, O holy altar of God.
Peace to the holy mysteries placed upon you.
Peace to you, O minister of the Holy Spirit.”

The priest then proceeds over to the deacon and/or alter boys. The deacon and/or alter boy places his hands over the priests in a traditional prayer like fashion and pulls back with his hands, and proceeds down the nave (making the appropriate bows of course) to the person in front of each pew. Each person then turns and gives the exchange of peace (prayer hands clasping one another, pulls back) to the person next to them and so forth. Kissing the cheeks is very popular at this point, including strangers 😛 It is what you get for going to a Lebanese Church, and an Eastern Church at that, kissing is an ancient Christian symbol.

I personally like the Exchange of Peace in my church, it is reverent, traditional and a wonderful witness to the fact that the community is built upon the love and peace of Christ.

For those who are worried about hygiene, we don’t take the Body and Blood of Christ with our hands, so it is a non issue. If you can, make it over to a Maronite Catholic Church and see what it is like.
  • Yeshua
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Hehe, I noticed this the one time I attended a Maronite liturgy. No kiss though - perhaps they sensed that I would’ve been uncomfortable with a kiss 😉
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
No. You’re missing the point. This is what you said…
Unless I am reading it wrong, you hint that being childlike is better than adultlike.

Again, you are telling us to watch the children when children themselves are self-centered creatures. Ask me, I’ve got them and raised a niece and nephew.
Children do not look at another person with purely loving thoughts. Some of it is a selfish “Look at me” attitude. There is nothing wrong with that from a child but we as adults do not need to look at children to guide our actions.

Sorry but children are not who we should be looking at but rather Christ himself. A big huge adult Christ.

So the inner child stuff just doesn’t cut it. We need to get out of the 60’s mentality. It’s really done a job on our church.
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Funny how Christ himself points to the children as examples. Could he possibly have been referring to something other than their selfishness and their 'look at me" attitudes? Maybe the Kingdom of heaven doesn’t really belong to “such as these”. Didn’t the Lord admonish disciples when they attempted to disallow the children? Perhaps it’s we as adults in a society of existentialists who are guilty of jading our children.

Your not hearing because you apparenly take offense to the idea of children’s innocence.

I’m not suggesting you behave like your children especially when you seeem adamant that they are less than perfect in the way they respond to others, but rather, to observe and immulate the purity of intention that Christ ascribes to all children.

By the way, Christ does guide my actions and those of all my children. God gave us duties as parents to shape our children in accordance with His designs. Children can still maintain innocence and purity while being children. Those weren’t perfect children who approached the Lord in the Gospel - or maybe they were.

I must have been blessed with exceptional children then; along with so many other families in my parrish.

Notice these passages are all spoken by John the Beloved, who constantly told His “Little Children” to “love one another” (John 13:34; John 15:12,17; 1John 3:11,23; 4:7,11,12; and 2John 1:5).

John 4:8). “Whosoever shall not receive the Kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein” (Luke 18:17).

Knowing what Jesus did for them on the Cross begins their love for Him-- but then continue to grow love with their understanding of the things of God. “At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank Thee, O Father, LORD of Heaven and earth, because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast REVEALED them unto babes” (Matthew 11:25). “As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the Word, that ye may grow thereby” (1Peter 2:2 ). As newborns desire milk, so should our children be taught to desire Jesus’ Word. Then they can grow in His likeness.

‘And they brought young children to Him, that He should touch them: and His disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, He was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God’ (Mark 10:13-14).

Whereby are given unto us Exceeding Great and Precious Promises: that by these ye might be PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust" (2Peter 1:4).

“For the Promise is unto you, and TO YOUR CHILDREN, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call” (Acts 2:39).

“Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, AND THY HOUSE” (Acts 16:30-31).

“Train up a child in the way he should go: and [even] when he is old, he will not depart from it” (Proverbs 22:6).

“Except ye be converted, and BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, ye shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven” (Matthew 18:3 ).

God Bless you and your children your in my prayers.
 
Phil:thumbsup: Thank you. We can only wish to be as pure as little children. (and this ain’t no hippie thing;) )
 
Fuerza said:
I’m not a fan of it either, especially after seeing where some people are putting their hands beforehand.
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I used to be ok with it but it has been bothering me more and more lately. I actually had a gent turn to me and tell me that he wished me peace but didn’t want to shake my hand because he had just gotten back from a tractor pull and his hands were dirty. Why he didn’t take a minute to wash them before he came into church to sit down is beyond me. The kicker is that this same guy who refused to shake my hand went up to communion and received Christ in his filthy hands. I was quite baffled. When did I become so much more important than Christ?:eek: :confused:
 
The childlike attitude that Jesus wants us to have is the total dependence on Him, even a fully adult person can do this IMHO.😃 :gopray:
 
I deal with the handshaking but the Our Father handholding with strangers has always bothered me. I don’t mind holding my family members hands but if I have a free hand I plant it firmly on the pew and don’t offer it up to the stranger beside me. If I’m viewed as unfriendly, so be it. I would rather concentrate on the Our Father then to worry about me holding hands with a stranger.
 
I’ve found the hugging that a lot of Catholics do during the sign of peace to be distracting.

If I’m in a church where there is hugging, I try not to be sitting near shorter, heavier women considering I’m a taller, thinner man.

A bear hug under those circumstances can really suck the air out of you.
 
As to the whole “little children” thing, I think we need to remember how children were thought of in the ancient world. They were basically small adults and were basically property. They were totally dependent on the goodwill of their parents or anyone who may take them if their parents died.

Jesus was calling us to be like that (as another poster pointed out)-totally dependent on Him.
 
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