Sign of peace...

[St_John]

Thank you for your post, it really puts it in a new light for me, helping me understand what The Church intends by this sign. I does sound like an intregal part of the Mass, rich in symbolism. I’ll try and look at it differently from now on.

I think it is important to understand the why before one passes judgment.

First of all, the Mass is the a communal worship and this communal worship is the preeminent expression of our unity as Christians. It isn’t a private prayer or devotion.

Secondly, the Church has always taught that we are to encounter Christ four ways in the Mass. First, in the Priest who acts in the person of Christ as the High Priest. Second, in the Liturgy of the Word. Third, in the our fellow worshippers and they in us. Fourth, and preeminently in the Eucharist.

Third, one must think about the perfect organization of the Mass. First, we ask our fellow Christians to forgive us of our sins when we pray the Confiteor during the Act of Penance. Then, during the Offering of the Gifts, we are to offer up our sins, our struggles, our pains, our joys and our blessings spiritually on the altar. And, after the Consecration, we are to accept the contrition of our fellow worshippers by extending to them the Sign of Peace as respresentatives of the Body of Christ in the presence of the Priest (representing the High Priest) and the Glorified Body, Soul and Divinity of Christ.

The Sign of Peace is when we are asked to act Christ-like to others. Are our fellow Christians to be a distraction or bothersome? Can’t we for a moment extend the love of Christ to others? Isn’t it appropriate that we do this in the physical presence of Christ?

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

I would say that there is a real good chance that St. Cyril didn’t have a congregation of 300 people who drove miles to get to the church.
Most probably, everyone who came to his liturgy lived within walking distance of eachother. They all belonged to the same village. I can see where he would want us to wholeheartedly forgive a person we knew before receiving Our Lord.
What this has to do with someone I have never met is beyond me.

I agree. There is no need to be reconciled with the strangers sitting next to me – I don’t have any argument with them, and I assume they have no argument with me.

What exactly is the purpose of all this handshaking? Afterwards, we still don’t even know each other’s names (and if we introduced ourselves during the Sign of Peace, there would be an even noisier, more distracting cacophony during the Sign of Peace than there already is).

Need I even add how much of an idiot I feel standing there alone, waiting for all the lovey-dovey couples and happy-sappy families to finish the private, within-family love-fests? (and what does that have to do with reconciling oneself to one’s neighbor?) By the time they’re done wishing peace to their own family members, nine times out of ten, the Agnus Dei has begun.

Fortunately, I don’t have to deal with this too much, as I’m usually in the choir loft. We all have regular seats, more or less, so we’re always shaking the same hands , not to mention trying to get our music ready for the Agnus Dei. If we spend too much time on the Sign of Peace, then we have this last-minute paper-rustling going on while we try to get our music ready at the last minute. Handshaking – talk about another distraction we don’t need up there in the loft! )

I wouldn’t mind a bow, by the way, instead of the handshaking.

Crazy Internet Junkies Society
Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag
Pace e Bene

 

[scylla]

I use the words of Christ to comfort me, when the Priest says Peace be with you, I recall Jesus appearing to the Apostles first and reaffirming He is with us at that very moment in the Eucharist.

I pay attention then to the priest at that time and reaffirm my belief in the real presence, then I turn to my wife and acknowledge the secondary presence of Christ in others. This I do just for my family and the people immediatly around me. Then I turn back to where we are focused on.
Jesus

I see no problem with making sure we leave our differences at the door and making sure we come to Mass at peace with each other, but we must first place the presence of Jesus first.
This is where many people mix it up and spend most the time turning it into a social minute.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Orionthehunter]

From CarolSFO: I agree. There is no need to be reconciled with the strangers sitting next to me – I don’t have any argument with them, and I assume they have no argument with me.

Hmmm. The Church feels differently. Otherwise, Mass wouldn’t begin with you asking for the forgiveness of your fellow worshippers.

I confess to almighty God,
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have sinned through my own fault,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done,
and in what I have failed to do.

One must keep in mind the concept that we are all part of the mystical Body of Christ. Even my private sins harm and stain my fellow Christians.

From CarolSFO: What exactly is the purpose of all this handshaking? Afterwards, we still don’t even know each other’s names (and if we introduced ourselves during the Sign of Peace, there would be an even noisier, more distracting cacophony during the Sign of Peace than there already is).

It is a cultural expression that replaced the historical “Kiss of Peace” where we actually kissed those around us. I suppose we could go back to that.

From CarolSFO: Need I even add how much of an idiot I feel standing there alone, waiting for all the lovey-dovey couples and happy-sappy families to finish the private, within-family love-fests? (and what does that have to do with reconciling oneself to one’s neighbor?) By the time they’re done wishing peace to their own family members, nine times out of ten, the Agnus Dei has begun.

We most often harm those close to us. When one thinks of the family as the first Church, isn’t this where we need the most reconciling?

From CarolSFO: I don’t have to deal with this too much, as I’m usually in the choir loft.

I’ve never thought it an advantage to be removed from my fellow worshippers in the preeminent communal worship of our Church.

From Carols SFO: I wouldn’t mind a bow, by the way, instead of the handshaking.

Move to Japan. This is what they do.

 

[Atk_Aheeni]

When I use to shake someones hand and say peace be with you I dont think I use to really mean it. Like i think i did that because I was suppose to. Recently I decided why shouldnt it hurt to actually mean it. I guess I will see.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Hmmm. The Church feels differently. Otherwise, Mass wouldn’t begin with you asking for the forgiveness of your fellow worshippers.

I confess to almighty God,
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have sinned through my own fault,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done,
and in what I have failed to do.

One must keep in mind the concept that we are all part of the mystical Body of Christ. Even my private sins harm and stain my fellow Christians.

The Confiteor takes care of all the metaphysical slights against our neighbor, true. However, I don’t think that is what Carol was talking about. Most of the time, we don’t have any actual objective sins against the people whom we are sitting next to and shaking their hand.

It is a cultural expression that replaced the historical “Kiss of Peace” where we actually kissed those around us. I suppose we could go back to that.

Or we could just do what we’ve been doing for the last how ever many centuries, what has organically developed out of that original communal kiss of peace-leave it to the ministers. Or (and I’m personally happy with this middle ground) just make it less sappy and more ritualized.

We most often harm those close to us. When one thinks of the family as the first Church, isn’t this where we need the most reconciling?

This generally takes place in private, the ritual handshake doesn’t quite cut it.

 

[St_John]

The Holy Catholic Church, to which we all clain to love and want to obey, has ordained this as part of the Mass. I’m surprised to see otherwise orthodox people so at odds with the instructions from the hierarchy. You all are aware that sometimes we must step outside of our personal comfort zone and away from our personal opinions in order to obey God and his Church, correct?

Orion the Hunter is giving some very excellent explanations here that clarify what the Church intends by including the handshake of peace in the Mass. Thank you Orion.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

The Holy Catholic Church, to which we all clain to love and want to obey, has ordained this as part of the Mass. I’m surprised to see otherwise orthodox people so at odds with the instructions from the hierarchy. You all are aware that sometimes we must step outside of our personal comfort zone and away from our personal opinions in order to obey God and his Church, correct?

It’s something totally optional, and something of which we can have an opinion about. I don’t like it, I’d be prone not to do it as a pastor but I don’t mind if it is done with some reverence. The “sign of peace” isn’t some infallible Tradition.

 

[Eireann]

Is it just me or is there anyone else out there who can’t stand this part of Mass?

Maybe it’s because I’m a bit anxious, but when it comes time for this part of the Mass I find myself stressing that my palms are sweating.

I attend daily Mass every now and again and the Pastor skips this part of the Mass, I love it, stress free.

Am I crazy? Or are there other people out there who can do without the gladhanding?

Although I’ve answered this quite a few times, well once again, I agree with you, I don’t care for it, but if someone offers me their hand I take it.

I really do wish it was dropped, some people like it, oh well, no-one died from it yet, I think.

 

[Orionthehunter]

From Comrade Andrei: The Confiteor takes care of all the metaphysical slights against our neighbor, true. However, I don’t think that is what Carol was talking about. Most of the time, we don’t have any actual objective sins against the people whom we are sitting next to and shaking their hand.

My point is that just as we need to ask the Body of Christ (our fellow man) for forgiveness, the Church asks us to participate in the forgiveness through the Sign of Peace. In my answer, I was trying to point out to Carol that she was missing the purpose.

From Comrade Andrei: Or we could just do what we’ve been doing for the last how ever many centuries, what has organically developed out of that original communal kiss of peace-leave it to the ministers. Or (and I’m personally happy with this middle ground) just make it less sappy and more ritualized.

I agree it shouldn’t be a social exchange. We do a social thing before the Mass starts. But it should be done with sincerity where people truly try to allow those around them to see the Light of Christ in their eyes.

From Comrade Andrei: This generally takes place in private, the ritual handshake doesn’t quite cut it.

I disagree that it is just ritual or symbolic. When I kiss my wife, it takes on a great deal of meaning. We might have argued before Mass and in this context, it all goes away as our sins do in Confession.

From Comrade Andrei: It’s something totally optional, and something of which we can have an opinion about. I don’t like it, I’d be prone not to do it as a pastor but I don’t mind if it is done with some reverence. The “sign of peace” isn’t some infallible Tradition.

It is optional at the discretion of the Priest. But for us, if he asks us to do it, we are to not dissent or consider it meaningless.

 

[Holland]

It’s not just the Sign of Peace, it’s where it’s located in the Mass. Here we are all nice and reverent and then all of the sudden there are people talking, kissing and running around the Church. Then you are suppose to go back to being reverent again. If you were a space alien floating above the congregation watching this you would be totally confused by what those humans were doing down there.

 

[Victorious]

I think it is important to understand the why before one passes judgment.

First of all, the Mass is the a communal worship and this communal worship is the preeminent expression of our unity as Christians. It isn’t a private prayer or devotion.

Secondly, the Church has always taught that we are to encounter Christ four ways in the Mass. First, in the Priest who acts in the person of Christ as the High Priest. Second, in the Liturgy of the Word. Third, in the our fellow worshippers and they in us. Fourth, and preeminently in the Eucharist.

Third, one must think about the perfect organization of the Mass. First, we ask our fellow Christians to forgive us of our sins when we pray the Confiteor during the Act of Penance. Then, during the Offering of the Gifts, we are to offer up our sins, our struggles, our pains, our joys and our blessings spiritually on the altar. And, after the Consecration, we are to accept the contrition of our fellow worshippers by extending to them the Sign of Peace as respresentatives of the Body of Christ in the presence of the Priest (representing the High Priest) and the Glorified Body, Soul and Divinity of Christ.

The Sign of Peace is when we are asked to act Christ-like to others. Are our fellow Christians to be a distraction or bothersome? Can’t we for a moment extend the love of Christ to others? Isn’t it appropriate that we do this in the physical presence of Christ?

The sign of peace can’t really be all that important, since it’s optional.

I dislike the sign of peace intensely, not least because it always degenerates into a gabfest. I also don’t like the whole touchy-feely thing.

I really hate the hand-holding during the Our Father, because it involves people I don’t know trying to force upon me an intimacy that presupposes a relationship that doesn’t exist. I fold my hands in a prayer position for the Our Father and absolutely refuse to allow anybody to grab hold of me in any way (some people are presumptuous enough to put their hand on your shoulder when you won’t hold hands). I do make an exception, however, for my hand-holding friends, even though it’s not part of the Mass, since there is a real relationship there that forms a basis for gestures of affection.

To all you people who find this scandalous, and who are tempted to psychoanalyze me because I don’t like to be touched by strangers, and think how sad and unfortunate it is that I am so small-minded, and pass judgment on me for what you take to be my lack of charity, I say: cope. Probably a lot more people than you think are repulsed by invasions of their space and intrusions on their persons.

Can you tell I feel strongly about this?

 

[Atk_Aheeni]

It’s not just the Sign of Peace, it’s where it’s located in the Mass. Here we are all nice and reverent and then all of the sudden there are people talking, kissing and running around the Church. Then you are suppose to go back to being reverent again. If you were a space alien floating above the congregation watching this you would be totally confused by what those humans were doing down there.

LOL!

 

[Atk_Aheeni]

The sign of peace can’t really be all that important, since it’s optional.

I dislike the sign of peace intensely, not least because it always degenerates into a gabfest. I also don’t like the whole touchy-feely thing.

I really hate the hand-holding during the Our Father, because it involves people I don’t know trying to force upon me an intimacy that presupposes a relationship that doesn’t exist. I fold my hands in a prayer position for the Our Father and absolutely refuse to allow anybody to grab hold of me in any way (some people are presumptuous enough to put their hand on your shoulder when you won’t hold hands). I do make an exception, however, for my hand-holding friends, even though it’s not part of the Mass, since there is a real relationship there that forms a basis for gestures of affection.

To all you people who find this scandalous, and who are tempted to psychoanalyze me because I don’t like to be touched by strangers, and think how sad and unfortunate it is that I am so small-minded, and pass judgment on me for what you take to be my lack of charity, I say: cope. Probably a lot more people than you think are repulsed by invasions of their space and intrusions on their persons.

Can you tell I feel strongly about this?

I dont like holding hands either but i figure a good handshake makes up for the avoiding of the our father touchy feely hand holding. I shouldnt probably talk like that but hand holding really rubs me wrong.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

It should be 1) moved to after the confietor or 2) deemed sufficient that the priest has said,“TPOTLBAWY,” and we’ve responded,“AAWY.”

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

My point is that just as we need to ask the Body of Christ (our fellow man) for forgiveness, the Church asks us to participate in the forgiveness through the Sign of Peace. In my answer, I was trying to point out to Carol that she was missing the purpose.

I agree it shouldn’t be a social exchange. We do a social thing before the Mass starts. But it should be done with sincerity where people truly try to allow those around them to see the Light of Christ in their eyes.

I disagree that it is just ritual or symbolic. When I kiss my wife, it takes on a great deal of meaning. We might have argued before Mass and in this context, it all goes away as our sins do in Confession.

This is all well and good, but where does it leave people like me, who have to just stand there doing nothing while all the families are having their private love-fests, and the husbands and wives are kissing each other? It’s like that in every church I’ve ever been in – the only place it’s any different is in the choir loft, because we don’t sit in family groups there. Aren’t I (and others who go to Mass alone) also part of the body of Christ?

**Crazy Internet Junkies Society
**Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag
Pace e Bene

 

[sinner]

Hmmm. The Church feels differently. Otherwise, Mass wouldn’t begin with you asking for the forgiveness of your fellow worshippers.

I confess to almighty God,
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have sinned through my own fault,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done,
and in what I have failed to do.

 

[Country_Wife]

The Confiteor is only one form of the Penitential Rite. As far as I know, the Penitential Rite is not optional.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

It should be 1) moved to after the confietor or 2) deemed sufficient that the priest has said,“TPOTLBAWY,” and we’ve responded,“AAWY.”

I like that. Deeming #2 sufficient would be great in my book.

My point is that just as we need to ask the Body of Christ (our fellow man) for forgiveness, the Church asks us to participate in the forgiveness through the Sign of Peace. In my answer, I was trying to point out to Carol that she was missing the purpose.

The above would take care of our “need to ask the Body of Christ for forgiveness”.

I agree it shouldn’t be a social exchange. We do a social thing before the Mass starts. But it should be done with sincerity where people truly try to allow those around them to see the Light of Christ in their eyes.

Good, I agree at the least that it shouldn’t be a social exchange too. However, I really don’t like the “social thing before Mass” either. Silent prayer time would be preferable.

[QUOTO] I disagree that it is just ritual or symbolic. When I kiss my wife, it takes on a great deal of meaning. We might have argued before Mass and in this context, it all goes away as our sins do in Confession.

“Ritual” and “symbol” aren’t empty in Catholicism, that isn’t what I’m saying. In the Confiteor we ask forgiveness from our fellow Christians and make things right between us all in that degree, therefore, we don’t need to touch each other.

However, since this should be taken care of in the Confiteor, it is valid to wonder if the sign of peace isn’t empty. I think there was a good reason why it became a vestige in the Roman Rite before the Novus Ordo.

It is optional at the discretion of the Priest. But for us, if he asks us to do it, we are to not dissent or consider it meaningless.

Exactly, optional. I participate if that is what the priest decides to do, but I don’t have to be enamored with it.

 

[CRW]

ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur137.htm Interesting article concerning this post.