Sign of Peace

[Orionthehunter]

I would like to see it happen before the offertory, as in the Anglican tradition. That way, you can make peace with your brother before you bring your gift to the altar.

Part of the gift we bring to the altar is our burdens, sin, and animosity to our brother. We are to bring our all to the altar during the offering.

Personally, I think it is the perfect spot (I don’t defend the hoopla abuses). Christ is now wholly present among us, we have the opportunity to be His respresentative to symbolicly show acceptance as the Body of Christ/Community the earlier expressed Act of Penance, all before we feast on the Bread of Life.

 

[Glennon_P]

I think the sign of peace is a good idea in a problematic place in the liturgy.

Settling your differences with your brother before making your offering is, of course, extremely Scriptural. So, as the Pope has apparently suggested, why not have it before the Offertory?

This could be directly after the Prayers of the Faithful, or perhaps at the start of Mass. Immediately after the celebrant’s greeting, but before the examination of conscience would seem to be a good place for us to acknowledge the peace of Christ and greet one another.

 

[Nino]

I have seen both: elimination of the sign of peace during Mass, and the sign of peace before the Lamb of God. The concept seems fine, but the implementation is often out of whack. I have seen churches where it becomes a veritable brouhaha. The Priest leaves the alter and parades around the church shaking with everyone (I believe that practice is illicit). I find that the sign of peace often turns into a big ruckus that really disrupts the Mass. Many people use it as a moment of socialization, which I don’t believe is appropriate during Mass or in the Church.

 

[Nino]

the so called sign of peace is another anchor from the deadly Vat.2 compound…I recall as a teacher in a catholic (small c) High school…when this momentous event was announced.kids would stand…run…jump and lean over seats…hug and kiss and generally make a mockery of the Holy Mass.Also its phoney…how many oif these same …look at me folks…characters take a stand for Jesus and His Church anyway…hopefully with this new Pope the dignity and true meaning of the Sacrifice of the Mass will return…no longer Man centered but God centered…out with the banjos and arm raising…but meditation and true devotion to the One God…and with the return of Latin in all its beauty…wow…maybe the ship of Peter wont sink after all…

 

[stmaria]

Do you think the sign of peace in the Mass is appropriate at that time of the Mass? I have met a priest who excludes it, and it seems to me his intentions are pious and out of reverence for the Body and Blood of Christ. I’m personally not sure at this time.

I believe that the sign of peace should be moved to a time right before the final blessing.

To have the sign of peace after the Consecration is in my opinion completely inappropriate.

If you truly believe in the Real Presence of Christ on the altar at the very moment of Consecration then how can you think otherwise?

Jesus Christ is physically on the altar. We should be on our knees, preparing ouselves to receive His Body and Blood. That is not the time to be shaking hands, hugging, walking around etc.
This is a sacrifice not a social event.

Can you imagine the apostles at the foot of the cross, while Jesus is being sacrificed, making the sign of peace? Shaking hands, hugging. Totally disrespectful.

Even Pope Benedict agrees that the sign of peace should be moved.

Josef Cardinal Ratzinger, in* The Spirit of the Liturgy*, praises the Church of Zaire for placing it before the Presentation of the Gifts. He adds that this placing “would be desirable for the whole Roman Rite, insofar as the sign of peace is something we want to retain” (p. 170). That is, we may not want to retain it.

 

[satiscognitum]

If you truly believe in the Real Presence of Christ on the altar at the very moment of Consecration then how can you think otherwise?

Most agree that 70% don’t believe in the Real Presense.

Jesus Christ is physically on the altar. We should be on our knees, preparing ouselves to receive His Body and Blood. That is not the time to be shaking hands, hugging, walking around etc.
This is a sacrifice not a social event.

To 70% it is a social event.

Can you imagine the apostles at the foot of the cross, while Jesus is being sacrificed, making the sign of peace? Shaking hands, hugging. Totally disrespectful.

No, I can’t imagine it.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Most agree that 70% don’t believe in the Real Presense.

To 70% it is a social event.

No, I can’t imagine it.

Jesus command to us is to “love one another.” Offering a sign of peace,(which doesn’t necessarily mean shaking hand BTW, hugs work well) is part of that commandment. In fact, loving your neighbor is to love Jesus.

I just don’t understand the resistance to being a community of people, who love and share faith together at Mass.

Jim

 

[otjm]

This is a Liturgical abuse! :tsktsk:
It’s things like this that make it so difficult for us Catholics to love the liturgy!
No priest has the authority to change the layout of the Mass or the customs we use without prior consent from the proper authorities!

Your law is right but your conclusion is wrong. The poster said they are doing that before the Mass begins; therefore it is not part of the Liturgy. Therefore it is not an abuse. You may not like it, but let’s contain the word “abuse” to what really is an abuse.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

once the priest has washed his hands and handled the Host it is sacrilege to contaminate them by touching anyone.

our priest does not take part in the SoP, but our previous one did and it was a travesty.

I agree we should make peace with our brothers BEFORE bringing our gift to the altar.

Ravyn

 

[otjm]

Most agree that 70% don’t believe in the Real Presense.

To 70% it is a social event.

No, I can’t imagine it.

I don’t know where you got your statistics, but it goes to show that you can theoretically prove anything by “statistics”. The issue of 70% falls apart when one take an actual look at the polls it was based on. Abut the only thing it really proves is that a large portion of Catholics cannot identify correctly the technical explanation of the Eucharist - transubstantiation; but that in no way equates with them either not believing in the Real Presence, or believing it is a social event. All it equates to is a poll that shows that a large portion of Catholics were poorly catechized.

Jimmy Akin has done a rather thorough analysis of the polls that back your figure of 70%; you might look it up and read it. It is well worth the time (and he is hardly someone I sould call a liberal).

 

[otjm]

once the priest has washed his hands and handled the Host it is sacrilege to contaminate them by touching anyone.

our priest does not take part in the SoP, but our previous one did and it was a travesty.

I agree we should make peace with our brothers BEFORE bringing our gift to the altar.

Ravyn

Please back that up with documentation.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

once the priest has washed his hands and handled the Host it is sacrilege to contaminate them by touching anyone.

our priest does not take part in the SoP, but our previous one did and it was a travesty.

I agree we should make peace with our brothers BEFORE bringing our gift to the altar.

Ravyn

The priest washing his hands during the Mass, isn’t for good hygiene, but rather its spiritual symbolism of his own sinfulness.

Jim

 

[johnnydigit]

I believe that the sign of peace should be moved to a time right before the final blessing.

To have the sign of peace after the Consecration is in my opinion completely inappropriate.

If you truly believe in the Real Presence of Christ on the altar at the very moment of Consecration then how can you think otherwise?

Jesus Christ is physically on the altar. We should be on our knees, preparing ouselves to receive His Body and Blood. That is not the time to be shaking hands, hugging, walking around etc.
This is a sacrifice not a social event.

Can you imagine the apostles at the foot of the cross, while Jesus is being sacrificed, making the sign of peace? Shaking hands, hugging. Totally disrespectful.

Even Pope Benedict agrees that the sign of peace should be moved.

Josef Cardinal Ratzinger, in* The Spirit of the Liturgy*, praises the Church of Zaire for placing it before the Presentation of the Gifts. He adds that this placing “would be desirable for the whole Roman Rite, insofar as the sign of peace is something we want to retain” (p. 170). That is, we may not want to retain it.

if only we were all like that, but i think it is a special grace to truly believe in the real presence. with charity and humility we understand that each person is at a different spiritual level, at a different point in their spiritual walk. if i could have it my way we would be prostrating ourselves the moment we enter the door…

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

The priest washing his hands during the Mass, isn’t for good hygiene, but rather its spiritual symbolism of his own sinfulness.

Jim

and also for showing proper respect for handling the Body and Blood of our Lord!

The priest’s hand are CONSECRATED after the washing. He should not touch anything unconsecrated in between the washing and the serving of the Communion. Originally the sign of peace was a KISS, not a handshake–it was not an issue, now it is!
Ravyn

"The teaching of consecrated hands can be found in various writings of the saints, which convey an admirably reverential attitude towards the sacraments, especially the holy Eucharist. From the writings of St. Bonaventure (The Breviloquium, chapter 11, #5), he writes concerning the reverence for the holy oils: “…a sacrament whose matter is holy—that is, consecrated oil—in order to avoid any risk, its dispensation is entrusted to priests in general. And because of the consecration of the oil, it should be touched by none except consecrated hands.” (Note the great reverence for the sacraments in general expressed by St. Bonaventure. The same reverence was naturally present during this time for the blessed Sacrament, the greatest of sacraments).

St. Thomas Aquinas, one of the greatest minds the Church has ever known, writes the following regarding the Blessed Sacrament: “Secondly, because the priest is the appointed intermediary between God and the people, hence as it belongs to him to offer the people’s gifts to God, so it belongs to him to deliver the consecrated gifts to the people. Thirdly, because out of reverence towards this sacrament [the Blessed Sacrament], nothing touches it but what is consecrated, hence the corporal and the chalice are consecrated, and likewise the priest’s hands, for touching this sacrament. Hence it is not lawful for anyone to touch it, except from necessity, for instance if it were to fall upon the ground, or else in some other case of urgency” (SummaTheologica, III, Q. 82, Art. 13)."

 

[satiscognitum]

if only we were all like that, but i think it is a special grace to truly believe in the real presence. with charity and humility we understand that each person is at a different spiritual level, at a different point in their spiritual walk. if i could have it my way we would be prostrating ourselves the moment we enter the door…

The real presence is a Dogma of the Church. It is to be believed with divine and catholic faith. It is not optional. You submit your intellect and will to that truth or you refuse to be Catholic.

SC

 

[Teeliumtrozzle]

Yes, I say the sign of peace should always be used at Mass, because it is giving to others a wish and a prayer that Lord Jesus will give them the gift of his Divine Peace, and this is a very good thing, because all Christians should have the Peace of Christ withen their souls, and Lord Jesus loves us to wish it for each other.
Pax Vobiscum

 

[satiscognitum]

I don’t know where you got your statistics, but it goes to show that you can theoretically prove anything by “statistics”. The issue of 70% falls apart when one take an actual look at the polls it was based on. Abut the only thing it really proves is that a large portion of Catholics cannot identify correctly the technical explanation of the Eucharist - transubstantiation; but that in no way equates with them either not believing in the Real Presence, or believing it is a social event. All it equates to is a poll that shows that a large portion of Catholics were poorly catechized.

Where did they get their poor catechisis; from their RCIA instructors?

Jimmy Akin has done a rather thorough analysis of the polls that back your figure of 70%; you might look it up and read it. It is well worth the time (and he is hardly someone I sould call a liberal).

Jimmy Akin is not a good source. He has no authority to teach and is unorthodox in many areas. Since you suggested it, I’ll read his reasoning and get back with you on it.

SC

 

[kleary]

Do you think the sign of peace in the Mass is appropriate at that time of the Mass? I have met a priest who excludes it, and it seems to me his intentions are pious and out of reverence for the Body and Blood of Christ. I’m personally not sure at this time.

In the Tridentine Mass the people never exchange a sign of peace with each other. It is only at Solemn Mass that the kiss of peace is exchanged between the priest and deacon, and deacon and sub deacon, and sub deacon and MC. I have seen it go from MC to the other altar boys but it stays in the Sanctuary.

In the Novus Ordo the priest has an option to say “Let us offer one another a sign of Christ’s peace”, and have the congregation give the sign of peace to each other or not to say it at all and go right into the Agnus Dei, thereby omitting the rite completely.

Ken

 

[Marian_Carroll]

**The topic of this poll thread is:

Is the Sign of Peace at the current time during the Mass ok?

Those wishing to discuss other topics should feel free to join an already existing thread or initiate one on the subject of their choice in the appropriate forum.

Those wishing to discuss, promote an agenda and/or hijack the thread to editorialize should feel free to refrain from interrupting it further.

As most of you know, discussion regarding Traditional Mass and practice is to be held here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/forumdisplay.php?f=102
Please take discussions and comments appropriate to it there.

Thank you for your cooperation which will insure that posting privileges continue without interruption.

**