Sign of the cross with left hand and right to left

[Spiller]

Agree that most lefties are probably more bicameral that righties and the older ones among us more so. This is because we learnt to adapt to a more right handed world than now where many gadgets eg scissors, irons, peelers were a challenge. Some were forced to make the ultimate adaptation to become right-handed.

But for me the issue isn’t whether we can adapt but why should we because of the Latin connation that using the left hand is sinister or illegitimate (eg the bend sinister on a shield of a knight born out-of-wedlock) and not showing proper respect. To me respect comes from the heart not which hand someone uses.

Oh, so you feel the need to put on a show by using your left hand, huh? There are many things we do with your right hands – shaking hands, holding them up to be sworn-into something, etc. We also genuflect on our right knees. Whether it’s due to a “right handed world or not” or not, that’s the way it’s done and to deviate is to bring attention to oneself and away from the act itself.

It’s not a “natural feeling” to cross oneself to begin with. It’s even less of a natural feeling to switch back and forth from the east/west styles. which I do so as not to draw attention to myself depending on where I am worshiping. That priest who said he crosses himself with his left hand could have learned just as easily with his right hand – but he too apparently needed to put on a show that he would not conform to a “right handed world.”

 

[mercygate]

Oh, so you feel the need to put on a show by using your left hand, huh? There are many things we do with your right hands – shaking hands, holding them up to be sworn-into something, etc. We also genuflect on our right knees. Whether it’s due to a “right handed world or not” or not, that’s the way it’s done and to deviate is to bring attention to oneself and away from the act itself.

It’s not a “natural feeling” to cross oneself to begin with. It’s even less of a natural feeling to switch back and forth from the east/west styles. which I do so as not to draw attention to myself depending on where I am worshiping. That priest who said he crosses himself with his left hand could have learned just as easily with his right hand – but he too apparently needed to put on a show that he would not conform to a “right handed world.”

I don’t think it’s so much a matter of “putting on a show” as a general atmosphere of feeling that if “I” don’t care about this, why should anybody else? “I” don’t think chewing gum in church is disrespectful, so it’s not. “I” don’t think drnkng water during Mass is inappropriate, so it’s not. “I”.

 

[allana]

Speaking as a left-handed person, I make the Sign of the Cross using my right hand from left to right because this is what Holy Mother Church teaches and we must always be obedient to her.

I am also left handed, and I have always felt comfortable using my right hand from left to right, i see it being done anyother way it would certainly feel awarkward to do it any other way for me.

 

[JaMc]

This thread reminds me of when I watching Ronald Reagan’s funeral on T.V., Arnold Schwartzenegger made the sign of the cross “backwards” (I think it was either with his left hand, from right to left, or both) when he approached the coffin. Does anyone know if he is Eastern Rite/Orthodox?

 

[Spiller]

This thread reminds me of when I watching Ronald Reagan’s funeral on T.V., Arnold Schwartzenegger made the sign of the cross “backwards” (I think it was either with his left hand, from right to left, or both) when he approached the coffin. Does anyone know if he is Eastern Rite/Orthodox?

Easterners go from right to left…

 

[mercygate]

Easterners go from right to left…

But Schwartzenegger is Austrian. How likely is it that would be Eastern?

 

[Salonika]

Oh, so you feel the need to put on a show by using your left hand, huh?

I started this thread as a serious discussion and I feel you have demeaned it by alleging that it is only prompted by my personal need to “put on a show”.

Also by that comment you could also be thought to imply that anyone who has replied without condemning use of the left hand or knee in church has the same motive. Do you mean this?

 

[Salonika]

We have a manner of prayer and worship that incorporates the flesh as a language. People might claim that “it’s no big deal” if I want to do it my way, but I say if “it’s no big deal” then speak the language of your culture. In this case, using the right hand.[END OF QUOTE]

“If I want to do it my way” - for me it not “want” it comes naturally and doing it a 100 times or more isn’t going to change this preference.

Also it seems from the responses in this thread this using the left hand isn’t prohibited.

And if it is a big deal? - the only alternative remaining during a service is not to cross yourself. Would this upset people more?

And Mercygate – thank you for recognising that the reason for my postings and comments isn’t my need “to put on a show".

 

[Spiller]

Spiller;3797754:

Oh, so you feel the need to put on a show by using your left hand, huh?

I started this thread as a serious discussion and I feel you have demeaned it by alleging that it is only prompted by my personal need to “put on a show”.

Also by that comment you could also be thought to imply that anyone who has replied without condemning use of the left hand or knee in church has the same motive. Do you mean this?

We use our right hands and right knees. Neither crossing ourselves or genuflecting is something we are born with – we learn it.

Even if we are left-handed, why not conform? It’s not a matter of being easier – it’s a matter of wanting to stand out. The only two reasons I can think of people wanting to stand out in this instance is to draw attention or as a mini-protests that they as lefties need not conform to the right-handed world. Neither belong in the Church.

 

[Spiller]

mercygate;3788395:

We have a manner of prayer and worship that incorporates the flesh as a language. People might claim that “it’s no big deal” if I want to do it my way, but I say if “it’s no big deal” then speak the language of your culture. In this case, using the right hand.[END OF QUOTE]

“If I want to do it my way” - for me it not “want” it comes naturally and doing it a 100 times

or more isn’t going to change this preference.

Also it seems from the responses in this thread this using the left hand isn’t prohibited.

And if it is a big deal? -** the only alternative remaining during a service is not to cross yourself**. Would this upset people more?

And Mercygate – thank you for recognising that the reason for my postings and comments isn’t my need “to put on a show".

If I crossed myself 100 times with my right hand beginning this very moment, at the end of the exercise I would feel comfortable crossing myself with my left hand. That feeling would only improve the more I did it.

When I began attending a Byzantine Catholic parish I ingrained in myself how to cross from right to left. I could have continued from left to right as I do in my home parish but why? Why not show some respect and follow the tradition?

The only alternative is NOT to “not cross yourself.” You could do it how everyone does it – with their right hands.

 

[Spiller]

But Schwartzenegger is Austrian. How likely is it that would be Eastern?

Hard to say…

 

[Ghoti]

But Schwartzenegger is Austrian. How likely is it that would be Eastern?

About 78% of Austrians are Catholic, according to the 1991 census; 5% Protestant, 17% “other”.

There is a “Greek Catholic Church in Western Austria”, but Arnold was born in Styria, on the Eastern border; I cannot find any other Eastern Catholic jurisdictions. The Austrian flavour of Catholicism is predominately Latin Rite, but many of the old Empire’s subject nations were Orthodox.

I just watched the clip of him at Reagan’s bier; Maria crosses herself L-R, Arnold R-L. Schwartzenegger claims to have been raised strict Catholic, was married in the Church, and attends Mass weekly. Perhaps there was some Eastern influence in Styria from Slovenia (altho’ I believe Slovenes are Latin Catholic); or maybe he just “got it wrong” – I don’t know (or presume to judge) how much church-goin’ he did in the years between his emigration from Austria and his run for office (when religion becomes a political factor). Quien sabe?

 

[pnewton]

I am ambidextirous when it comes to crossing. Even though I am right handed, I use my left when my right hand is loaded. Since this never occurs during the liturgy, I have no problem with it. After all, it is not a required devotion at most points I cross myself. Therefore, it is better to say the prayer evoked with my left hand than not at all. Rubrics do not extend to private devotion.

 

[mercygate]

mercygate;3788395:

We have a manner of prayer and worship that incorporates the flesh as a language. People might claim that “it’s no big deal” if I want to do it my way, but I say if “it’s no big deal” then speak the language of your culture. In this case, using the right hand.[END OF QUOTE]

“If I want to do it my way” - for me it not “want” it comes naturally and doing it a 100 times or more isn’t going to change this preference.

Also it seems from the responses in this thread this using the left hand isn’t prohibited.

And if it is a big deal? - the only alternative remaining during a service is not to cross yourself. Would this upset people more?

And Mercygate – thank you for recognising that the reason for my postings and comments isn’t my need “to put on a show".

As someone who is left handed, and recognizing that there are degrees of “handedness”, I still truly fail to comprehend your insistence taht “100 times” isn’t going to change this preference. Maybe it won’t change the preference, but practice certainly would make it comfortable for you.

I insist that my 6th graders use their right and and knee. I compare it with an athletic exercise. The get comfortable with it in a few weeks. If a person wants to play a sport, he will “work” both sides of his body in order to build his skills. Same deal.

But then, I swiched from the left hand to the right hand in fencing, just to build dexterity and strength in my “off” hand.

 

[patrick457]

I’m also left-handed, but generally I’m now used to cross myself with my right hand (I remember when I was a kid when I would get reprimanded for making the Sign of the Cross with my left ).

Apparently, in many ancient cultures, the left is considered with ‘evil’ (thus the Latin word for left, ‘sinister’ became associated with evil; compare the Latin word for the right ‘dexter’), thus the custom.

In Semitic cultures, the left hand is symbolized the power to shame society, and was used as a metaphor for misfortune, natural evil, or punishment from the gods, thus the ‘Left Hand of God’ . By contrast, the right hand was seen as signifying a position of power and authority (thus the reason why Jesus is said to be at the ‘right hand of God’).

The left was also even considered to be the ‘toilet hand’ by Arabs (thus, when meeting with Arab men, you should always use the right hand when having a handshake)!

Apparently we lefties are discriminated against a lot of times…

 

[Salonika]

Patrick457’s post reminded me of the first time I became aware of the connotations against the left as evil or unclean mentioned by some posters on this thread.

It was when I first heard Matthew 25:31-46 read in Church. It was very frightening to a 8 year old left-hander who had to be reasured by her mother than God loved her whichever hand she used. (Yes, this was childish reaction, but I was a child and the reasurance didn’t wipe out the event. Also people still tell me that sometimes I take what some people say too literally.)

In case you don’t have a Bible handy here’s a summary:

“When the Son of Man comes as King and all the angels with him, he will sit on his royal throne …. He will put the righteous people at his right and the others at his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, Come you are blessed by my Father …. Then he will say to those on his left “away from me, you that are under God’s curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels."

 

[mercygate]

Patrick457’s post reminded me of the first time I became aware of the connotations against the left as evil or unclean mentioned by some posters on this thread.

It was when I first heard Matthew 25:31-46 read in Church. It was very frightening to a 8 year old left-hander who had to be reasured by her mother than God loved her whichever hand she used. (Yes, this was childish reaction, but I was a child and the reasurance didn’t wipe out the event. Also people still tell me that sometimes I take what some people say too literally.)

In case you don’t have a Bible handy here’s a summary:

“When the Son of Man comes as King and all the angels with him, he will sit on his royal throne …. He will put the righteous people at his right and the others at his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, Come you are blessed by my Father …. Then he will say to those on his left “away from me, you that are under God’s curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels."

While training my child to overcome an aversion to using the right hand for this non-demanding task (we’re not talking about fine-muscle dexterity here), I might assure the child that if Jesus is on the Father’s right side, then His “good” hand is closer and more ready to serve.

 

[imatruefunk]

Hello all! I am very new to the forum, but came across this thread because I wanted some other opinions about making the sign of the cross with the left hand. I have a five year old who has motor skills problems, and is left handed, and just cannot do it with his right hand. He is not disabled, not handicapped, and not “dumb.” He is just naturally left handed. I asked our priest, a veteran priest of 27 years, and he said left or right, it doesn’t matter. He said the fact is, you’re making the sign.

As for the CCD teacher and the 6th grade teacher who correct their students, I find this hard to grasp. I am a teacher and developmental specialist myself, in Lincoln, Nebraska (public school), and think it is OK for any child to be left handed.

Mercygate said “I insist that my 6th graders use their right and and knee. I compare it with an athletic exercise. The get comfortable with it in a few weeks. If a person wants to play a sport, he will “work” both sides of his body in order to build his skills. Same deal.”

I am a football and baseball coach, and we do not insist that our left handed players use their non-dominate hand in practice. If we have a left handed quarterback, he throws with his left hand. If we have a left handed pitcher or batter, he is not required to pitch and/or with is right hand as well. The sign of the cross should not be compared to athletic exercise.

In Matthew 25:31-46, it in no way, shape, or form indicates which hand the good or the bad use. It simply says the good on the right, the bad on the left. To indicate that people who use their left hand will be damned and people who use their right hand will be blessed for eternity is a judgement we as mortals cannot make.

Mercygate also says “While training my child to overcome an aversion to using the right hand for this non-demanding task (we’re not talking about fine-muscle dexterity here), I might assure the child that if Jesus is on the Father’s right side, then His “good” hand is closer and more ready to serve.” Mercygate proves what I am saying above, that the person’s good hand, their dominate hand, is closer and ready to serve. You don’t have to be right handed to be good or saved or blessed.

The is so much talk about making points and not conforming to the “rules.” Some may argue with me, but, some people just cannot use their non-dominate hand as well as their dominate. If we are supposed to love all and let the Father be our judge, why is this even being discussed? Why do we still tell left handed children to use their right hand? Let them be themselves and allow them to develop in their own ways. We are all different, and that’s what makes us all special.

Truly,
Chris Funk, Ed.D

 

[mercygate]

Hello all! I am very new to the forum, but came across this thread because I wanted some other opinions about making the sign of the cross with the left hand. I have a five year old who has motor skills problems, and is left handed, and just cannot do it with his right hand. He is not disabled, not handicapped, and not “dumb.” He is just naturally left handed. I asked our priest, a veteran priest of 27 years, and he said left or right, it doesn’t matter. He said the fact is, you’re making the sign.

As for the CCD teacher and the 6th grade teacher who correct their students, I find this hard to grasp. I am a teacher and developmental specialist myself, in Lincoln, Nebraska (public school), and think it is OK for any child to be left handed.

Mercygate said “I insist that my 6th graders use their right and and knee. I compare it with an athletic exercise. The get comfortable with it in a few weeks. If a person wants to play a sport, he will “work” both sides of his body in order to build his skills. Same deal.”

I am a football and baseball coach, and we do not insist that our left handed players use their non-dominate hand in practice. If we have a left handed quarterback, he throws with his left hand. If we have a left handed pitcher or batter, he is not required to pitch and/or with is right hand as well. The sign of the cross should not be compared to athletic exercise.

In Matthew 25:31-46, it in no way, shape, or form indicates which hand the good or the bad use. It simply says the good on the right, the bad on the left. To indicate that people who use their left hand will be damned and people who use their right hand will be blessed for eternity is a judgement we as mortals cannot make.

Mercygate also says “While training my child to overcome an aversion to using the right hand for this non-demanding task (we’re not talking about fine-muscle dexterity here), I might assure the child that if Jesus is on the Father’s right side, then His “good” hand is closer and more ready to serve.” Mercygate proves what I am saying above, that the person’s good hand, their dominate hand, is closer and ready to serve. You don’t have to be right handed to be good or saved or blessed.

The is so much talk about making points and not conforming to the “rules.” Some may argue with me, but, some people just cannot use their non-dominate hand as well as their dominate. If we are supposed to love all and let the Father be our judge, why is this even being discussed? Why do we still tell left handed children to use their right hand? Let them be themselves and allow them to develop in their own ways. We are all different, and that’s what makes us all special.

Truly,
Chris Funk, Ed.D

I agree that for serious athletics, you should work your dominant side: no question.

I am left handed and a figure skater. Had I been a competition skater, I would have skated “left handed” but I wasn’t going to the Olympics, and for me, it was better to skate “right handed” – with the flow – because I was skating often at public sessions where the traffic moves counter clockwise, so I could work jumps and spins into the overall pattern.

However: making the sign of the cross and genuflecting are not high-skill athletic operations. The average, non-disabled person can do this without suffering any long-term brain, muscle, or moral damage. In fact, it’s good to learn to use both sides of your body.

The question is not “is it OK to use your left hand?” – certainly it’s OK for someone who has some kind of dsability. But in general ANYBODY can do this.

P.S. I got an “A+” in neurophysiology in pre-doctoral studies at Columbia TC.

 

[Ghoti]

I was not aware of the correct knee to use when genuflecting until I joined the forum: up to that point, tho’, I can’t tell you which knee I used all the time, but I do know the majority of the time I bent my right knee (because I entered the pew from the left, and lowered myself down holding the corner of the pew with my right hand. I will make it a point to be more observant.

My view had been, WRT genuflecting, was “what’s the diff, which knee?”, until I read about the Sign of the Cross. It never occurred to me that one could/would sign with anything other than their right hand (barring a disability). It would be like saluting with the wrong hand. AFAIK, in polite society, one only offers one’s right hand to shake, regardless which hand is dominant.

I guess it’s a matter of, “This is the way we do it. This is our tradition, this is our way.” If crossing with the left is OK, or (for other than Eastern Catholics) right shoulder to left, then what’s wrong with going shoulder to shoulder first then going head to breast?

I think it’s just a matter of sticking with what is “proper” and traditional. God knows we have enough problems now with cries of “innovation” and “novelty”. (And this observation from a OF-goer.)

Should HMC announce tomorrow it is more correct to bless oneself with the left hand, though, then that I shall gladly do, no matter how “uncomfortable” or “unnatural” that might be.