Sign of the cross with left hand and right to left

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mercygate said:
I agree that for serious athletics, you should work your dominant side: no question.

I am left handed and a figure skater. Had I been a competition skater, I would have skated “left handed” but I wasn’t going to the Olympics, and for me, it was better to skate “right handed” – with the flow – because I was skating often at public sessions where the traffic moves counter clockwise, so I could work jumps and spins into the overall pattern.

However: making the sign of the cross and genuflecting are not high-skill athletic operations. The average, non-disabled person can do this without suffering any long-term brain, muscle, or moral damage. In fact, it’s good to learn to use both sides of your body.

The question is not “is it OK to use your left hand?” – certainly it’s OK for someone who has some kind of dsability. But in general ANYBODY can do this.

P.S. I got an “A+” in neurophysiology in pre-doctoral studies at Columbia TC.
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It appears as this has become some kind of competition for you. I am not here to compete, congrats on your “A+” but be realistic, you are trying to convince people that the only way, if you are “capable,” is to use the right hand. Was Jesus right or left handed? Do we know? No we don’t, it is not possible to prove. If you think about it, and want to get technical, those who are from the Holy Land, do in fact use their left hand, which to me indicates they are following an example set by our Saviour.

This has somehow become a debate on physical ability. It has nothing to do with being able to do it, it is about a natural preference to one side or the other. My priest tells me it’s OK, and in my opinion, his beliefs are more valuable and trustworthy. I am sorry to be that way, but, you are what Non-Catholics call Militant Catholic. It is an amazing opportunity to be able to call ourselves Catholic and to be able to practice as we do, but, we are also mortal, and should never live our lives as Holy ones.

Thanks!
Chris FUnk, Ed.D.
 
imatruefunk said:
It appears as this has become some kind of competition for you. I am not here to compete, congrats on your “A+” but be realistic, you are trying to convince people that the only way, if you are “capable,” is to use the right hand. Was Jesus right or left handed? Do we know? No we don’t, it is not possible to prove. If you think about it, and want to get technical, those who are from the Holy Land, do in fact use their left hand, which to me indicates they are following an example set by our Saviour.

This has somehow become a debate on physical ability. It has nothing to do with being able to do it, it is about a natural preference to one side or the other. My priest tells me it’s OK, and in my opinion, his beliefs are more valuable and trustworthy. I am sorry to be that way, but, you are what Non-Catholics call Militant Catholic. It is an amazing opportunity to be able to call ourselves Catholic and to be able to practice as we do, but, we are also mortal, and should never live our lives as Holy ones.

Thanks!
Chris FUnk, Ed.D.
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In the Middle East they use the left hand for what?

[Edited]

This is a question of the language of gesture in the culture of the Church. We HAVE a language, after all.

Ghoti put it well: " It would be like saluting with the wrong hand. AFAIK, in polite society, one only offers one’s right hand to shake, regardless which hand is dominant."

Your priest affirmed that it is OK to make the sign of the cross with the left hand if there is a reason it cannot be done with the left, not as a general principle.

As for being “militant Catholic” – as a teacher, I take that as a compliment. It is my job to teach kids the language we use in worship.
 
mercygate said:
In the Middle East they use the left hand for what?

[Edited]

This is a question of the language of gesture in the culture of the Church. We HAVE a language, after all.

Ghoti put it well: " It would be like saluting with the wrong hand. AFAIK, in polite society, one only offers one’s right hand to shake, regardless which hand is dominant."

Your priest affirmed that it is OK to make the sign of the cross with the left hand if there is a reason it cannot be done with the left, not as a general principle.

As for being “militant Catholic” – as a teacher, I take that as a compliment. It is my job to teach kids the language we use in worship.
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[Edited] In no way did our priest say he could only use his left hand if there is no other way. You interpret things how you want, not how they are meant.

The people in the middle east use their left hand to make the sign of the cross, do your research. SO I guess they must all be damned to Hell? [Edited] The language of the church is an interpretation of former practices that one cannot prove even existed, it is a practice of Faith. [Edited]

I refuse to be a part of this thread any longer, you have succeded in running me off, hope youa re happy with yourself.

Signed,
DOCTOR, yes I said it Dr. Chris Funk.
 
imatruefunk said:
Oh I flouted my Ed.D.? You are something else. It has become habit when I sign my name to anything, because well, I am proud of my accomplishments and earned the ability to put Ed.D. at the end of my name. So if you consider that flouting, more power to you.

You obviously have nothing better to do with your time than to try to impose your ways upon others. In no way did our priest say he could only use his left hand if there is no other way. You interpret things how you want, not how they are meant.

The people in the middle east use their left hand to make the sign of the cross, do your research. SO I guess they must all be damned to Hell? I hate to say this, but it is people like you that have pushed my wife and I away form sending our children to Catholic schools, and why I teach in a public school. The language of the church is an interpretation of former practices that one cannot prove even existed, it is a practice of Faith. You I guess, are now God, since you can be so certain that your way is the right way. Your judgements will stand you on the right side of our Father.

I refuse to be a part of this thread any longer, you have succeded in running me off, hope youa re happy with yourself.

Signed,
DOCTOR, yes I said it Dr. Chris Funk.
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I apologize for saying that you flaunted your EdD, and I am sincere in admiring your achievement.
 
Eastern Rites (and Orthodox) = spectacles, [edited], upper right, lower left (of chest)

Actually, it’s supposed to be right shoulder, then left SHOULDER, not lower.
 
bpbasilphx said:
Eastern Rites (and Orthodox) = spectacles, [edited], upper right, lower left (of chest)

Actually, it’s supposed to be right shoulder, then left SHOULDER, not lower.
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Nix.

Taking one’s thumb, index finger and middle finger bunch together one signs my touching their forehead, their sternum, their upper right pectoral and then to the left, down to their heart.
 
Jean_Anthony said:
Please keep the discussion friendly, everyone. Thank you.
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Think it may be a bit late for that.

I dropped out of the discussion and will do so again after posting this (and I was the one who started the thread) because I felt that the overall emphasis changed from the issue I brought up to a discourse on tradition, its immutability and the unacceptability of those who do not accept this.

This immutability is a topic I choose not to take part in as the interchange between those who support this view and those who do not usually ends up with angry words, repetition of old arguments, very few people changing or modifying their views and new posters wondering what has hit them.
 
I have to add this.

I remember a comedian on TV…Chris Fonseca…he has cerebral palsy. He commented that he always had trouble making the Sign of the Cross, so he had to settle for the Mark of Zorro. 😃
 
Ghoti said:
I have to add this.

I remember a comedian on TV…Chris Fonseca…he has cerebral palsy. He commented that he always had trouble making the Sign of the Cross, so he had to settle for the Mark of Zorro. 😃
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LOL! Good for him!

After reading your post about saluting and shaking hands with the right hand, I went to our chaplain – a Navy officer – and asked what would happen if a sailor without a disability saluted with his left hand. The Rabbi said: “Which brig would you like to spend the rest of the week in?”
 
My take on this issue in a few words:

Since the Sign of the Cross was done with the right hand by our forefathers (regardless of whether or not they are left or right-handed), I suggest we stick to the way it is done: by the right hand. No, I don’t believe that a person would go to Hell for doing it in an ‘improper’ manner (it’s not like God would open the trap door leading to Down There for kneeling with the wrong knee or forgetting the Our Father), but trying to stand out, IMHO, would only cause further division, confusion and argument amongst the Brethren who know less.

Plus, it’s not like the Sign of the Cross is a very complicated gesture to make. The right hand would just touch the forehead, the sternum, the left shoulder, and then the right (or vice versa for the Eastern Catholics and Orthodox). It would be understandable if left-handed people ‘get it wrong’ on some tries but continuous repetition of the gesture would fix that, I think (it did for me). For short: I don’t see a need for left-handed able people to cross themselves with their left hand. I’ve had more trouble throwing a ball properly with my right than crossing myself with it; but that’s just me. I can’t vouch for all lefties in the world.
It is an amazing opportunity to be able to call ourselves Catholic and to be able to practice as we do, but, we are also mortal, and should never live our lives as Holy ones.
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Ah, but we can try to. Holiness belongs to God by essence (which denotes the absolute moral perfection which is His by nature), but we humans could participate in this holiness by having a close union with God. Whatever sanctity a human may possess comes as a Divine gift. Thus to humans, ‘Holiness’ signifies this union, together with the moral perfection resulting from this union.

Why did God say that “Sanctify yourselves and be holy; for I, the Lord your God, am Holy” (Leviticus 11:44, 20:7) if we can’t/shouldn’t be holy anyway?

That is the reason Jesus assumed humanity, “God became Man that Man might become God”; note that this does not mean that humans would be equal with God, but that man in Christ would be enabled to partake of the divine nature.
 
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