Significance of numbers in the Gospel

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What is there significance of numbers in the Gospels

Mark 8.1-8.9; 7 loaves of bread fed over 4,000 with 7 baskets left over

Mark 6:30-6:43, 5 loaves & 2 fish fed 5,000 with 12 baskets left over
 
vtmike08 said:
What is there significance of numbers in the Gospels

Mark 8.1-8.9; 7 loaves of bread fed over 4,000 with 7 baskets left over

Mark 6:30-6:43, 5 loaves & 2 fish fed 5,000 with 12 baskets left over
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You’ll have to take my word for the following, because proving the truth of it is a very large amount of work, to be laid-out in a forth-coming book…

2 = “the Church”
3 = “God’s Will,” “the Commandments”
4 = “everyone”
5 = “Jesus”
6 = “evil,” “sin”
7 = “complete,” “completely,” “perfect,” “perfectly”
8 = “saved”
9 = “unsaved”
10 = “very much”
11 = “overflowing with”
12 = “all the tribes of God’s people”
40 = “testing,” “preparation”

10, maybe 11, and 12 may be squared, to exaggerate their effect

Any number may be multiplied by others to string-together concepts

Dividing by a number implies “against-ness” vis-a-vis that number.

Those are the rules pertinent to what are called Bible number types.

Bible number types’ interpretations do not per se conform to the numbers’ customary symbolic values outside the Bible. God couldn’t care less what a numbers’ symbolic value is outside the Bible.

Now, to your question…

Mark 8.1-8.9; 7 loaves of bread fed over 4,000 with 7 baskets left over

Why “7 loaves” and “7 baskets”?

Carefully read Mark 8:6…

Then, taking the seven loaves he gave thanks, broke them, and gave them to his disciples to distribute, and they distributed them to the crowd. Mark 8:6.

Where did you read that language before? How about here?..

22 While they were eating, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is my body.”
23 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, and they all drank from it.
24 He said to them, "This is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed for many. Mark 14:22-24.

I think that Christ did a consecration before the Last Supper!

As a result, the bread distributed was “7 bread” – “perfect bread”!

Why were there “4,000” people? 4,000 = 10 x 10 x 10 x 4 = “very, very, very much everyone.”

Mark 6:30-6:43, 5 loaves & 2 fish fed 5,000 with 12 baskets left over

Read Mark 6:41…

Then, taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he said the blessing, broke the loaves, and gave them to (his) disciples to set before the people; he also divided the two fish among them all. Mark 6:41.

There’s the consecration, again, over the bread.

5 = “Jesus,” right? Since it has been consecrated, suddenly the bread is Jesus!!!

And so the people were “very, very, very much 'Christified,” and so we are told rhat there were “10 x 10 x 10 x 5” or “5,000” of them!

And there was enough left over for “all of the tribes of God’s people,” or “12” baskets, right?

But why “2” fish?

This has to do with the “Mutated Fish Type.”

The basic Fish Type is a type, or symbol, of “a soul in the Sea of Damnable Souls.” So, notice that in John 21, the Apostles net a very large catch of fish in the presence of resurrected Christ. That previously-damnable souls being taken from the Sea of Damnable Souls by the Church!

Because Christ took our sins upon Himself by being punished in our stead, and so ended up being treated as though He were sin, itself, Paul says of Christ that He is He Who Was Made to Be Sin Who Did Not Know Sin. 2 Corinthians 5:21.

And, so the Bible uses sin symbols, of all things, to symbolize Christ!!!

In Luke 8, we see Christ sleeping in a boat during a storm. That’s a picture of the dead Christ in His Church!

In Jonah 1, we see Jonah sleeping in a boat during a storm, because he is a symbol of Christ, there! When Jonah volunteers to be tossed into the sea and they oblige, and Jonah is swallowed by a fish, that is a picture of Christ volunteering to be sacrificed, and so Christ “becomes” “sin” (when Jonah “becomes” a fish!)

In Tobit 6, Tobiah captures the huge “Christ fish,” he sacrifices it and eats it. Symbolically, he is receiving the Eucharist!

Those 2 fish feeding the 5,000 are a picture of the “Christ fish” “from the Church,” symbolized by “2,” get it?

The Christ fish “from the Church” are next to the Eucharistic bread in the story because the story is using Identification by Juxtaposition to tell us, “Do you see that consecrated bread? It is the same thing as Christ from the Church!”

There is your answer.
 
I don’t read Greek, but I have been told that there are two different words for “basket” in these passages, one being more like “picnic basket/lunch pail” and the other connoting something like a laundry basket.

There is of course enough variation amongst the accounts of multiplication of loaves to believe that He may have done this more than once. . . . also considering the fact that He chides people for following Him only because they want free bread.
 
vtmike08 said:
What is there significance of numbers in the Gospels

Mark 8.1-8.9; 7 loaves of bread fed over 4,000 with 7 baskets left over

Mark 6:30-6:43, 5 loaves & 2 fish fed 5,000 with 12 baskets left over
Click to expand...
lots of people, lots of leftovers.
 
I’m not sure about “6 = evil / sin”

6 is a perfect number, the sum of its proper factors equal the number: 6 = 1 + 2 + 3

Saint Augustine argued in City of God that because 6 was a perfect number that’s why the creation story takes place in 6 days, with God resting on the 7th.
 
Peter_Dawson said:
Because Christ took our sins upon Himself by being punished in our stead, and so ended up being treated as though He were sin, itself, Paul says of Christ that He is He Who Was Made to Be Sin Who Did Not Know Sin. 2 Corinthians 5:21.
And, so the Bible uses sin symbols, of all things, to symbolize Christ!!!
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Whose sins did Christ take on? A sin symbol cannot symbolize God. Christ represents us in the reconciliation process. Instead of cherry picking single verse quotes, it would be better to read the entire passage plus the footnotes for 2 Corinthians 5: 11-21 in a Catholic bible. Reading footnotes is especially important for those who want to understand the writing style of St. Paul.
In Luke 8, we see Christ sleeping in a boat during a storm. That’s a picture of the dead Christ in His Church!
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Since when is there a dead Christ in His Church? The birthday of the Catholic Church takes place after Christ’s Resurrection. This means that the living Christ is head of the Mystical Body.
In Tobit 6, Tobiah captures the huge “Christ fish,” he sacrifices it and eats it. Symbolically, he is receiving the Eucharist!
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In the Catholic Church, the Eucharist is truly Jesus Christ. No one can receive Jesus Christ in the Catholic Eucharist symbolically.
 
praise_Jesus said:
I’m not sure about “6 = evil / sin”

6 is a perfect number, the sum of its proper factors equal the number: 6 = 1 + 2 + 3
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To apprehend the proper interpretation of a Bible type, or symbol, one has to review the many dozens of verses in Sctiprure in which a verse appears.

This is because many of the uses of symbols in the Bible – especially of number symbols in the Bible – seem innately ambiguous, when viewed in isolation, mostly because Bible themes are not as simple as “the good guys versus the bad guys.” Even the good – even Christ Himself – are subject to characterization with sin symbols!!! Again, there is the bronze “serpent” on the pole.

Exhaustive review and analysis are needed to enable one to deduce the philosophical structure intended by God in His use of symbols.

Occasionally, the uses are unambiguous. Here’s one for “six.”

20 There was another battle at Gath in which there was a man of large stature with six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot–twenty-four in all. He too was one of the Rephaim.
21 And when he insulted Israel, Jonathan, son of David’s brother Shimei, killed him. 2 Samuel 21:20-21. That’s pretty clear – the enemy of God’s people is covered with sixes!

In fact, whereas “six” means “evil” or “sin,” it’s “seven” which refers to “perfection” or “completion.” So, let’s analyze a verse with both…

19 Out of six troubles he will deliver you, and at the seventh no evil shall touch you. Job 5:19.

Note that the “bad” thing, “troubles,” are “six” in number. “No” evil touches at the “seventh.” Viewing “six” as “evil” and “seven” as “perfection” works, here.

Proverbs 6:16 are a little more ambiguous, but the six/seven analysis just employed, where “six” = “evil” and “seven” = “perfection,” still works…

**16 There are six things the LORD hates, yes, seven are an abomination to him; Proverbs 6:16. ** “Perfection” works for “seven” here because God the things “perfectly.”
 
Peter_Dawson said:
Yours.
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Of course I am a sinner. But I am not a sin symbol for Christ and neither is anything else. Could it be that one could misinterpret a symbol in Sacred Scripture and call it “sin” by mistake? Of course when one is doing one’s own interpretations, one could be entitled to one’s own personal opinion. 😃
 
Peter_Dawson said:
2 = “the Church”
3 = “God’s Will,” “the Commandments”
4 = “everyone”
5 = “Jesus”
6 = “evil,” “sin”
7 = “complete,” “completely,” “perfect,” “perfectly”
8 = “saved”
9 = “unsaved”
10 = “very much”
11 = “overflowing with”
12 = “all the tribes of God’s people”
40 = “testing,” “preparation”
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Where did this number code originate and why isn’t there a #1, or 13-39?
 
grannymh said:
Of course I am a sinner. But I am not a sin symbol for Christ and neither is anything else.
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I didn’t say that Granny is a sin symbol, did I?

I said that he took your sins upon himself.

Here’s a verse in Ezekiel foreshadowing Christ’s work, in this regard…

As for you, son of man … you shall lie on your left side, while I place the sins of the house of Israel upon you. As many days as you lie thus, you shall bear their sins. Ezekiel 4:1, 4.
grannymh said:
Since when is there a dead Christ in His Church?
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Every Catholic Church in the world celebrates Christ’s death, Granny. Christ didn’t just resurrect. He also died. So, every single Catholic Church, without exception, has one of these, as it’s *main * visible feature, above the altar of sacrifice…

cartage.org.lb/en/themes/arts/scultpureplastic/sculpture/bigphotos/B/crucifix.jpg

That’s a dead man up there.

Also, Granny, remember the words you have said at Mass, for decades, now…

"When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, Lord Jesus, until you come in glory."

Every single time you receive the holiest sacrament, Granny, you proclaim Christ’s DEATH.

Those words aren’t nonsense for you to dismiss in your posts as garbage.

They are your faith.
 
seagal said:
Where did this number code originate and why isn’t there a #1, or 13-39?
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Hi.

Just the word “one” appears over 2000 times in the Bible. Analogs such as “once,” “a” “single,” “alone,” and so on multiply that number to astronomical heights.

I’ve read the Bible several times, at this point. I’ve exhaustively reviewed verses in which “one” and its analogs appear, and I just can’t put my finger on an interpretation.

I suspect that because there is always “one” of something in any given Bible story, this is a philosophically inevitable thing, so that God assigned no symbolic value to the number, since in effect the symbol (or “type”) just would never “turn off”!

The other numbers you mentioned have their own explanations.

13 appears to be a type, or symbol, in its own right. I don’t remember my inference re its interp, offhand, to tell the truth.

14 may not be a type in its own right, but rather a combination of the two number types it factors-down-into, 2 x 7, meaning something like “God’s Church perfected.”

15, which factors-down to 3 x 15, could be the same sort of structure, or iot might be a type in its own right. I don’t know, off-hand. I’d have to look at my notes from about 20 years ago.

16 factors-down to 8 x 2, “the saved [in] the Church,” something like that.

17 appears to be like 13 – a type in its own right. I don’t know the meaning offhand.

18 factors-down to 9 x 2, “the UNsaved [in] the Church.”

“19” and “19th” were so thinly represented in Sceipture that, if it has an interpretation, I couldn’t discern it.

I am fairly confident that 20 through 39 are always multiples (or, occasionally, dividends) of smaller number types, except when you have a prime number.

The prime number in Scripture problem is really fascinating. Here and there in Scripture we find bizarre numbers significantly placed. What in Heaven’s Holy Name is their significance??? I have no idea, yet.
 
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Peter_Dawson:
:banghead:
 
grannymh said:
:banghead:

My faith can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, not in posts containing twisted opinions which should be ignored.

For those who are interested in Catholic teaching, this is a link to the Catechism www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
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Oh, sheesh! Come on, Granny. Be a Catholic! The Church actually TEACHES that God made Christ, who did not know sin, to be sin, so that we, in turn, can become the very righteousness of God! It’s Catholic teaching, Granny! You’re stuck!
 
The author is not a believer AFAIK but ‘Archimedes’ Revenge’ has an interesting section about some of the mathematical properties of numbers used in Scripture. The number 153 - the number of fish caught with Christ’s intervention after the resurrection, is a fascinating example. Among other considerations, it has a special relationship to the number 3, as follows:

For any multiple of 3, cube each of the digits (the power of 3), add the cubes together and repeat. All multiples of 3 end/loop at 153.*

Example:

711 (multiple of 3 and 237)

7^3=343
1^3=1

totaling 345 (obviously all the intermediate steps will also be multiples of 3).

3^3=27
4^3=64
5^3=125

adding up to 216

2^3=8
1^3=1
6^3=216

adding up to 225

2^3=8
5^3=125

adding up to 141

4^3=64

so we get 66

6 cubed is 216, doubled is 432

2 cubed is 8
3 cubed is 27
4 cubed is 64

totaling 99

9 cubed is 729, doubled is 1458->

1
64
125
512

totaling 702

343+8 = 351

27+125+1=153

1+125+27=153
:):)🙂
 
153 is one of the significantly place bizarre numbers I had in mind. It has to mean something, but what?

There are several bizarre numbers like that in Scripture.
 
Peter_Dawson said:
153 is one of the significantly place bizarre numbers I had in mind. It has to mean something, but what?

There are several bizarre numbers like that in Scripture.
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Definitely, you would enjoy Archimedes’ Revenge!

Although the author of that book did not (would not) say this, it occurs to me that St. Bonaventure said that anything in nature with three parts is in some way a vestige of the Trinity. Something like that may be going on with 153.
 
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