Sikhism

[singh]

Is anyone familiar with the Sikh religion? Followers claim that the first guru, Nanak (born a Hindu and befriended many Muslims), received revelations directly from God, and hence started a new religion.

My specific question relates to Guru Nanak being quoted as declaring “Neither am I Hindu nor Muslim”. This sounds awfully close to the saying “There is no Jew, nor Greek” by St. Paul, about 1500 years before Guru Nanak.

Would it be a sound argument to point out that Sikhism is a mixture of Islam and Hinduism, basing it on some of the teachings of each religion (ie, the notion of one God in Islam, and reincarnation in Hinduism) to start a new movement?

Here are a couple of links on their beliefs.

info-sikh.com/PageKnow1.html
sikh-history.com/sikhhist/gurus/nanak1.html

 

[RazzsMom]

Is anyone familiar with the Sikh religion? Followers claim that the first guru, Nanak (born a Hindu and befriended many Muslims), received revelations directly from God, and hence started a new religion.

My specific question relates to Guru Nanak being quoted as declaring “Neither am I Hindu nor Muslim”. This sounds awfully close to the saying “There is no Jew, nor Greek” by St. Paul, about 1500 years before Guru Nanak.

Would it be a sound argument to point out that Sikhism is a mixture of Islam and Hinduism, basing it on some of the teachings of each religion (ie, the notion of one God in Islam, and reincarnation in Hinduism) to start a new movement?

Here are a couple of links on their beliefs.

info-sikh.com/PageKnow1.html
sikh-history.com/sikhhist/gurus/nanak1.html

I do not really have knowledge of this, but this thread caught my eye because my doctor’s last name is “Singh” and his father (who was my doctor until he retired and his son took the practice) is Sikh. I will be interested to follow this conversation!

 

[Siddhartha]

Is anyone familiar with the Sikh religion? Followers claim that the first guru, Nanak (born a Hindu and befriended many Muslims), received revelations directly from God, and hence started a new religion.

My specific question relates to Guru Nanak being quoted as declaring “Neither am I Hindu nor Muslim”. This sounds awfully close to the saying “There is no Jew, nor Greek” by St. Paul, about 1500 years before Guru Nanak.

Guru Nanak was one of many spiritual teachers in northern India from 1100s to 1600s who were influenced by both Islam and Hinduism (as well as Buddhism and other religions). Another teacher was Kabir, who wrote this poem:

Are you looking for me? I am in the next seat.
My shoulder is against yours.
you will not find me in the stupas, not in Indian shrine
rooms, nor in synagogues, nor in cathedrals:
not in masses, nor kirtans, not in legs winding
around your own neck, nor in eating nothing but
vegetables.

When you really look for me, you will see me
instantly –
you will find me in the tiniest house of time.

Kabir says: Student, tell me, what is God?
He is the breath inside the breath.

Would it be a sound argument to point out that Sikhism is a mixture of Islam and Hinduism, basing it on some of the teachings of each religion (ie, the notion of one God in Islam, and reincarnation in Hinduism) to start a new movement?

I don’t think so. I think it would be better to say that Sikhism contains elements found in both Hinduism and Islam. From a Sikh perspective, the reason Sikhism contains elements found in both, is not because Guru Nanak self-consciously decided to mix the two religions, but because God’s revelation to Nanak contained teachings that showed that both Hinduism and Islam contained God’s truth to one degree or another. The fact that Hinduism contains truth, and that Islam contains truth, indicate that both also stem from God (though perhaps with some imperfections).

 

[LDNCatholic]

Very familiar. It is my favourite non Abrahamic religion (though I’ve heard some debate it as a bridge between the Abrahamic and Dharmic religions). In my less informed days I condisered conversion. It is interesting that you saw a similarity in the two quotes.

I take it, Singh, that you are Sikh?

 

[Ghoti]

Very familiar. It is my favourite non Abrahamic religion (though I’ve heard some debate it as a bridge between the Abrahamic and Dharmic religions). In my less informed days I condisered conversion. It is interesting that you saw a similarity in the two quotes.

I take it, Singh, that you are Sikh?

Well, his religion is listed in his original post above as Catholic.

I have read a little bit about Sikhism – interesting stuff, as I recall. I’ll have to dust that book off again, now that my interest has been piqued again.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Well, his religion is listed in his original post above as Catholic.

Whoops, missed that. Just went by the username. Singh is a very common name among Sikh men. Means ‘‘lion’’. Women usually have ‘‘Kaur’’ (Princess) in their name.

 

[singh]

Very familiar. It is my favourite non Abrahamic religion (though I’ve heard some debate it as a bridge between the Abrahamic and Dharmic religions). In my less informed days I condisered conversion. It is interesting that you saw a similarity in the two quotes.

I take it, Singh, that you are Sikh?

I was raised as a Sikh, but converted to Catholicsm 15 years ago to my family’s dislike.

 

[LDNCatholic]

I was raised as a Sikh, but converted to Catholicsm 15 years ago to my family’s dislike.

Ah I see. Welcome home!

If it isn’t too intrusive, how did you decide upon Catholicism? I ask because I have a friend born into a Sikh family who has previously expressed interest in Catholicism. I know no two people are the same but you may have faced similar hurdles to what he is facing now.

 

[singh]

If it isn’t too intrusive, how did you decide upon Catholicism?

Because of my ex-husband (yes, I’m a female. Singh is my maiden name). My ex-husband (boyfriend at the time) and his family introduced me to their faith, which I knew nothing about. I attended mass with them regularly and looked deeper into Catholicism. It just made so much sense to me compared to everything else I knew of. After a few years of un-officially practicing, I joined the RCIA program at my church and received my sacraments.

I truly believe it was the Holy Spirit who led me to my ex-husband (who unfortunately does not practice his faith anymore, but that is a totally different topic) so I could have the chance to know the one true God. I am so greatful for that. In fact, after my divorce is when I feel I’ve become even closer to God. I just hope God will always guide me and help me in raising my only child to be a wonderful Catholic. Though I must admit, it does get tough sometimes with my own family’s culture and practices.

 

[Publisher]

Guru Nanak was one of many spiritual teachers in northern India from 1100s to 1600s who were influenced by both Islam and Hinduism (as well as Buddhism and other religions). Another teacher was Kabir, who wrote this poem:

Are you looking for me? I am in the next seat.
My shoulder is against yours.
you will not find me in the stupas, not in Indian shrine
rooms, nor in synagogues, nor in cathedrals:
not in masses, nor kirtans, not in legs winding
around your own neck, nor in eating nothing but
vegetables.

When you really look for me, you will see me
instantly –
you will find me in the tiniest house of time.

Kabir says: Student, tell me, what is God?
He is the breath inside the breath.

I don’t think so. I think it would be better to say that Sikhism contains elements found in both Hinduism and Islam. From a Sikh perspective, the reason Sikhism contains elements found in both, is not because Guru Nanak self-consciously decided to mix the two religions, but because God’s revelation to Nanak contained teachings that showed that both Hinduism and Islam contained God’s truth to one degree or another. The fact that Hinduism contains truth, and that Islam contains truth, indicate that both also stem from God (though perhaps with some imperfections).

The quote sounds similar to the Gospel of Thomas v.77 “I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained. Split a piece of wood; I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there.”

I believe the Holy Qu’ran has a similar passage about God being as close as our shoulder.

 

[Siddhartha]

The quote sounds similar to the Gospel of Thomas v.77 “I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained. Split a piece of wood; I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there.”

I believe the Holy Qu’ran has a similar passage about God being as close as our shoulder.

Al-Qur’an 50:16: “And certainly We created man, and We know what his mind suggests to him – and We are nearer to him than his life-vein.”

 

[singh]

The quote sounds similar to the Gospel of Thomas v.77 “I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained. Split a piece of wood; I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there.”

I believe the Holy Qu’ran has a similar passage about God being as close as our shoulder.

Is it possible that Nanak used references from the Gospel of Thomas and the Quran to form his teachings, and that he never really received divine revelations from God? I know he lived during the time of the Mughal oppression in India and was opposed to many of the injustices going on in his time.

 

[Siddhartha]

Is it possible that Nanak used references from the Gospel of Thomas and the Quran to form his teachings, and that he never really received divine revelations from God? I know he lived during the time of the Mughal oppression in India and was opposed to many of the injustices going on in his time.

The Gospel of Thomas is a possible influence, but unlikely. The idea that God can be found in the middle of a stone, or in the center of a piece of wood, is not a unique property of the Gospel of Thomas; the idea can be found in many religious traditions across the globe. Guru Nanak undoubtedly knew about the Qur’an: it is said that Guru Nanak visited Mecca once and had a few encounters with the Muslims there:

At Mecca, Nanak was found sleeping with his feet towards the Kaaba, before which the Muslims prostrated themselves when performing their prayer. Kazi Rukan-ud-din, who observed this, angrily remarked: “Infidel! How dare you dishonour God’s place by turning your feet towards Him?” He also kicked Nanak. The Guru did not show any anger. In fact, he was never angry with anybody. He smiled at Jiwan. In a calm, sweet voice he said to him, “Brother, don’t be angry. I am very tired. I need rest. I respect the House of God as much as any one. Please turn my feet in a direction in which God or the House of God is not.”

The Qazi took hold of the Guru’s feet. He dragged them in the opposite direction. Then he lifted his eyes. He saw the Kaaba standing in the direction of the Guru’s feet. He turned the Guru’s feet in another direction. The Kaaba was seen standing in that direction. Qazi dragged the Guru’s feet to this side and that. He dragged them round and round. The Kaaba was seen to be going round and round. It was always, in the direction of the Guru’s feet. His feet were always towards the Kaaba. The Qazi was struck with wonder. He then recognised the glory of Guru Nanak.

Kazi Rukan-ud-di and the other hajjis were all filled with wonder. Jiwan let go of the Guru’s feet. The Guru got up and said, ‘Don’t you see that God’s House is in every direction? I tell you He dwells in every place, in every heart. He is in your hearts. He is also in mine.’

It’s possible that Guru Nanak did not receive revelations from God. But just because someone knows the scriptures of different religions, doesn’t mean God can’t reveal revelation to that person. Jesus himself knew the Torah, and perhaps he was aware of Greek mythology. Moses probably knew the Egyptian sacred scriptures. Abraham knew the sacred lore of the Chaldeans and of the inhabitants of Syrian desert (e.g., Melchizadek).

 

[Contarini]

The Gospel of Thomas is a possible influence, but unlikely.

I don’t think it’s possible. As far as I know, the Gospel of Thomas existed only in Coptic manuscripts until the past century (I guess there was an original Greek version or whatever, and I suppose it’s possible that some translation of that found its way to India and vanished without a trace–so perhaps your characterization was correct after all!).

It’s possible that Guru Nanak did not receive revelations from God. But just because someone knows the scriptures of different religions, doesn’t mean God can’t reveal revelation to that person.

Indeed.

Edwin

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I truly believe it was the Holy Spirit who led me to my ex-husband (who unfortunately does not practice his faith anymore, but that is a totally different topic) so I could have the chance to know the one true God. I am so greatful for that. In fact, after my divorce is when I feel I’ve become even closer to God. I just hope God will always guide me and help me in raising my only child to be a wonderful Catholic. Though I must admit, it does get tough sometimes with my own family’s culture and practices.

Welcome, sister. I always enjoy it when people come to the faith through romance and then keep the faith when the romance doesn’t go as well. Not because I rejoice in failed relationships, mind you, but because it shows their faith is strong and sincere, and not just a “well let me make my spouse happy” kind of thing. It gives me great respect for the person.

I remember researching Guru Nanak briefly a long time ago. I kind of enjoyed some of the concepts of the Sikh faith, and I always meant to do more research on it. Maybe I should now.