Silence trailer is out!

[7_Sorrows]

I can’t wait to watch this movie, based on Shusaku Endo’s novel of the same name:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silence_(novel

youtube.com/watch?v=IqrgxZLd_gE

You guys excited as I am?

Although I side thought… what if it has hints of heresy? It’s going to be directed by Martin Scorsese.

The movie has already been directed by Scorsese.

It was already released in selected theatres Dec. 23rd and wide release in January.

The book was written by a Catholic author. I think the movie will be thought provoking.
I would like to see it as it is based on a true story and there have been so many martyrs in Japan. I don’t know how Catholicism is today in Japan, but the Japanese suffered
tremendous persecution in the 16th and 17th centuries.

 

[christofirst]

It sounds like the problem in this movie is apostasy. I haven’t seen the movie yet, but the more conservative Catholic reviewers are saying that the priests should have chosen the martyr’s path instead of renouncing the Faith, even though the martyr’s path would have ensured the tortuous death of many others. This seems to me a most difficult choice. Do I renounce my faith so that others can live? Or do I remain steadfast knowing that other people will suffer horribly as a result of my choice? On the one hand, I can rationalize and say that by my apostasy, others will live, and God willing, I can later repent. On the other hand, our faith teaches that a martyr’s death is a certainty of eternal reward, both for myself and for all those others who refuse to deny Our Lord and accept the consequences. Martyrdom requires heroic virtue that human nature tends to resist, and most of us recoil from seeing or causing another’s suffering. Silence indeed sounds thought-provoking, but also brutal to watch - not a “feel good” movie.

 

[7_Sorrows]

It sounds like the problem in this movie is apostasy. I haven’t seen the movie yet, but the more conservative Catholic reviewers are saying that the priests should have chosen the martyr’s path instead of renouncing the Faith, even though the martyr’s path would have ensured the tortuous death of many others. This seems to me a most difficult choice. Do I renounce my faith so that others can live? Or do I remain steadfast knowing that other people will suffer horribly as a result of my choice? On the one hand, I can rationalize and say that by my apostasy, others will live, and God willing, I can later repent. On the other hand, our faith teaches that a martyr’s death is a certainty of eternal reward, both for myself and for all those others who refuse to deny Our Lord and accept the consequences. Martyrdom requires heroic virtue that human nature tends to resist, and most of us recoil from seeing or causing another’s suffering. Silence indeed sounds thought-provoking, but also brutal to watch - not a “feel good” movie.

No I don’t think it is a feel good movie either.

What would it take to renounce your faith? The threat of your death or someone else’s death? We hear of Christian hostages of ISIS asked to do renounce their faith.
I haven’t seen the movie yet so I can’t judge. It presents a dilemma.

 

[doomguy93]

If you go into this movie expecting Kirk Cameron, you’re going to be disappointed. This is a Scorsese film. It will be dark. As an admirer of Japanese culture, I’m very glad that Scorsese has finally made this film. It’s based on an excellent novel by Japanese Catholic Shusaku Endo, from the 60s, as has been pointed out. It was previously adapted as a Japanese film in 1971; I can’t remember if it’s ever been released here or not. But Silence is considered one of the greatest Christian novels of all time.

Theoretically, this should set Scorsese straight with anyone who hates him for Last Temptation, but I guess haters gonna hate. I’ve never seen Last Temptation and I really don’t plan to. If Scorsese thought that film added value to Jesus, fine. That’s between him and Jesus. Too uncomfortable for me. But that doesn’t invalidate his other awesome flicks.

As for the Church in Japan, yeah, it’s had a very rough time. See this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Japan, and this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumi-e Read also about Amakusa Shiro, a Catholic leader whose failed rebellion against the Shogunate has passed into Japanese legend, and is commonly depicted in video games, novels, manga, anime, etc. as a villain who comes back from the dead, renounces Christ, makes a pact with a demon and becomes an evil sorcerer. Only Japan, folks. Only Japan.

There’s also some kind of Catholic offshoot called Kirishitan (Japanese pronunciation and transcription of “Christian”) which is exclusive to Japan and originates from the feudal days. Also remember Our Lady of Akita. 70s Japan, where manga like Devilman and Lupin III, and movies like The Street Fighter were the order of the day, is the last place you’d expect a Marian apparition, but there you go. God is watching the whole world.

There’s a sizable Christian or Catholic population today, I guess, and the mostly non-religious Japan has a fascination with Catholic imagery, as can be seen in anime such as Neon Genesis Evangelion. But the Japanese certainly don’t understand the faith outside of Hollywood movies. That’s why you see a bishop committing suicide because he ordered a hit in Golgo 13: The Professional, or some other stupid thing.

 

[christofirst]

Best review of the movie Silence I’ve read so far:

firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2017/01/silence-scorseses-spiritual-masterpiece

 

[tomarin]

Best review of the movie Silence I’ve read so far:

firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2017/01/silence-scorseses-spiritual-masterpiece

Sounds like it’s not for the squeamish (and of course neither was the book).

 

[CatholicWhovian]

Do I renounce my faith so that others can live? Or do I remain steadfast knowing that other people will suffer horribly as a result of my choice? On the one hand, I can rationalize and say that by my apostasy, others will live, and God willing, I can later repent. On the other hand, our faith teaches that a martyr’s death is a certainty of eternal reward, both for myself and for all those others who refuse to deny Our Lord and accept the consequences. Martyrdom requires heroic virtue that human nature tends to resist, and most of us recoil from seeing or causing another’s suffering.

I had almost similar questions when I read several of the reviews and commentaries about the film (that are from faithful Catholic sources). However they’re more like questions about martyrdom and apostasy. Would it be considered a sin to be coerced into apostasy? I read somewhere in an AAA here that coercion doesn’t count as voluntary, which is a requirement if one is to actually sin.

Also is it actually sinful to avoid martyrdom? It is cowardice, yes, but… considering the dire circumstances of the Christians during this time period in history in this specific place, and the weak nature of human beings, would be the avoidance of martyrdom be sinful per se? I mean, it would be rash and imprudent to just go out a 17th century Japanese village and proclaim loud and proud that you’re a Christian, when professing the faith in public would be considered reason for treason and therefore execution. And we have also seen several instances when Christians would go into hiding so they could profess the faith. The ancient Roman catacombs are a testament to that, so were the “priest holes” found in many English Catholic homes during the Tudor era in England.

I think these questions are posed by the novel (and I assume to an extent the film), rather than answered by the novel. And I think it’s this aspect that some (not all) of the conservative reviews miss about Silence. It seems that they follow the assumption that fiction has to be didactic to be great, when sometimes the best fiction out there sometimes depict human weakness and sinfulness. If you ask me didactic fiction is part of the reason why many (evangelical) Christian films are so bad.

I haven’t watched the film, mind you. It’s still hasn’t premiered here in the Philippines. You’d think a predominantly Catholic country that was under Japanese occupation during World War II would have released it around the same month as in the US…

As for the Church in Japan, yeah, it’s had a very rough time. See this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Japan, and this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumi-e Read also about Amakusa Shiro, a Catholic leader whose failed rebellion against the Shogunate has passed into Japanese legend, and is commonly depicted in video games, novels, manga, anime, etc. as a villain who comes back from the dead, renounces Christ, makes a pact with a demon and becomes an evil sorcerer. Only Japan, folks. Only Japan.

There’s also some kind of Catholic offshoot called Kirishitan (Japanese pronunciation and transcription of “Christian”) which is exclusive to Japan and originates from the feudal days. Also remember Our Lady of Akita. 70s Japan, where manga like Devilman and Lupin III, and movies like The Street Fighter were the order of the day, is the last place you’d expect a Marian apparition, but there you go. God is watching the whole world.

There’s a sizable Christian or Catholic population today, I guess, and the mostly non-religious Japan has a fascination with Catholic imagery, as can be seen in anime such as Neon Genesis Evangelion. But** the Japanese certainly don’t understand the faith outside of Hollywood movies**. That’s why you see a bishop committing suicide because he ordered a hit in Golgo 13: The Professional, or some other stupid thing.

I think that’s what Shusaku Endo points to when he mentions Japan as a "swamp that sucks up all sorts of ideologies, transforming them into itself and distorting them in the process. Christianity seems to be seen more within the vein of popular culture rather than a religion that can be discussed with seriousness. In fact even Buddhism is treated as if it’s part of popular culture. There’s this anime which depicts Jesus and Buddha as roommates, and it borders almost between the strange and the blasphemous. I think the main aim of Shusaku Endo’s works (including Silence) is to reach out to his fellow countrymen and evangelize them by applying Christianity into the Japanese context (inculturation), so that the “swamp of moral and religious apathy” as he calls Japan, can allow Christianity to take root.

There is this thread discussion which I made about fake priests in Japanese Western-style weddings, which lead to a discussion about religion in Japan in general and how it is perceived: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=914391

 

[christofirst]

I had almost similar questions when I read several of the reviews and commentaries about the film (that are from faithful Catholic sources). However they’re more like questions about martyrdom and apostasy. Would it be considered a sin to be coerced into apostasy? I read somewhere in an AAA here that coercion doesn’t count as voluntary, which is a requirement if one is to actually sin.

Also is it actually sinful to avoid martyrdom? It is cowardice, yes, but… considering the dire circumstances of the Christians during this time period in history in this specific place, and the weak nature of human beings, would be the avoidance of martyrdom be sinful per se? I mean, it would be rash and imprudent to just go out a 17th century Japanese village and proclaim loud and proud that you’re a Christian, when professing the faith in public would be considered reason for treason and therefore execution. And we have also seen several instances when Christians would go into hiding so they could profess the faith. The ancient Roman catacombs are a testament to that, so were the “priest holes” found in many English Catholic homes during the Tudor era in England.

I think these questions are posed by the novel (and I assume to an extent the film), rather than answered by the novel. And I think it’s this aspect that some (not all) of the conservative reviews miss about Silence. It seems that they follow the assumption that fiction has to be didactic to be great, when sometimes the best fiction out there sometimes depict human weakness and sinfulness. If you ask me didactic fiction is part of the reason why many (evangelical) Christian films are so bad.

I haven’t watched the film, mind you. It’s still hasn’t premiered here in the Philippines. You’d think a predominantly Catholic country that was under Japanese occupation during World War II would have released it around the same month as in the US…]

You make some good points, especially regarding the conditions necessary for genuine apostasy. I just wanted to add that the movie is still in limited release here in the States. Only two theaters are showing it here in Los Angeles, and no matinee, which is why I haven’t seen it yet either. It is supposed to go into wide release later this month, and I’ve now decided that I will go and see it then.

 

[7_Sorrows]

You make some good points, especially regarding the conditions necessary for genuine apostasy. I just wanted to add that the movie is still in limited release here in the States. Only two theaters are showing it here in Los Angeles, and no matinee, which is why I haven’t seen it yet either. It is supposed to go into wide release later this month, and I’ve now decided that I will go and see it then.

I believe January 13th.

 

[TCEL]

I’m interested in seeing it, but after pregnancy and post-partem hormones have settled a bit. I’m not so bothered by themes of apostasy, depending on how it’s addressed. I think there’s a difference between presentation and exoneration.

 

[rose_kelly]

I’ve seen the film now. The violent torture scenes were horrendous and not something I’d ever want to see again on the screen.

But I’ve since been questioning how I would feel If I ever had to witness such brutality, or worse still, be put in a position of having to experience a similar situation of suffering, and I hardly dare admit to myself how weak and cowardly I would be.

Catholic news- Catholic Church England and Wales has much to say about the film.

catholicnews.org.uk/Home/News/Silence-Film.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I’ve seen the film now. The violent torture scenes were horrendous and not something I’d ever want to see again on the screen.

But I’ve since been questioning how I would feel If I ever had to witness such brutality, or worse still, be put in a position of having to experience a similar situation of suffering, and I hardly dare admit to myself how weak and cowardly I would be.

Catholic news- Catholic Church England and Wales has much to say about the film.

catholicnews.org.uk/Home/News/Silence-Film.

I am sure I would be weak and cowardly as well. I hope to see the movie next week.