Silent Latin Mass?

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Nan_S

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I was visiting southern Louisiana recently. When I consulted the phone book to find a Catholic Church I noted a listing for an SSPX church very close to my hotel, offering a traditional Latin Mass. So I chose to go worship there. The last time I attended a traditional Latin Mass in person was over 40 years ago. Occasionally since then I heard a traditional Latin Mass broadcast over the radio. I was hungering for the opportunity to go back.

I now have some questions, so I came here to ask. The mass wasn’t quite what I expected, and overall I found it a less-than-enriching spiritual experience. A good portion of the traditional Latin Mass at this SSPX church - the postures and gestures - was familiar from my young childhood recollections. But I was taken aback by the nearly complete silence on the part of the priest when saying the prayers of the mass.

Is this typical of a traditional Latin Mass? Does the priest normally offer the mass in an inaudible whisper? Or is he instead supposed to offer the mass in a low, but still audible, voice which the congregation can follow?

I had a Latin-English mass book in hand and expected to listen to the priest offer the Mass in Latin, while I read along joining in silent participation. With the near-total silence from the priest, what I actually found myself doing was reading the mass to myself, and hoping I wasn’t too far disconnected from whatever portion of the mass where the priest was at that moment. The opening prayers between the priest and the server were spoken in low, but still audible, murmer, which I followed fairly easily. After the opening prayers ended, however, nearly everything else was in an inaudible whisper. The scripture readings were proclaimed out loud in English, and the homily was also, of course. But everything else was almost completely silent.

Even though I had mass book in hand, it was difficult to make the connections and keep on track. Every now and then I saw the priest make a gesture or movement which indicated something was happening, or heard a murmered response from the server which helped me to jump ahead or back to the appropriate spot. The rest of the time I raced along in the mass book reading the prayers to myself, and somehow managed to end up on the page with the consecration prayers at about the same time the server rang the bell for the elevation of the Eucharist.

As I said, this was a less-than-enriching sprirtual experience. I felt like I was, unworthily, reciting the mass to God for myself, trying to keep pace with a priest who was saying the mass to God for himself, and surrounded by people who were completely isolated from each other. Except for the fact that the Eucharist was distributed (which I HAPPILY received on my knees), I might just as well have been reading the mass to myself while alone in a library.

I have attended the Novus Ordo Mass when presented in Latin and came away feeling inspired, challenged, enriched, and blessed. There is a sense of community at Novus Ordo Latin Masses, and I felt joined to the congregation and the whole church, as well as participating in a joining of the rich traditions of the church with the present and future.

That didn’t happen this particular Sunday. If the near-total silence by that priest is, indeed, typical of the way the traditional Latin Mass is supposed to be offered, I will have to say that I am disappointed. In that case, I will continue to seek out opportunities to attend the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin, but not the traditional Latin Mass.
 
It appears to turn off a lot of people but the Traditional Latin Mass follows the canons of the Council of Trent:
Session 22, Canon 9. If anyone says that the rite of the Roman Church, according to which a part of the canon and the words of consecration are pronounced in a low tone, is to be condemned; or that the mass ought to be celebrated in the vernacular tongue only;[28] or that water ought not to be mixed with the wine that is to be offered in the chalice because it is contrary to the institution of Christ,[29] let him be anathema.
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You attended, what is called, a low Mass. A low Mass has no smells and bells. It is simply the Priest offering the Sacrifice to God with the faithful present. The low Mass is great if you know the Mass well and simply want to pray along with the Priest. It can be a time for deep devotion and spiritual benefit as you unite yourself with what is taking place upon the altar.

If you are new to the old Mass, I always recommend attending a High Mass; at least at first. The High Mass has a lot of pomp, and all the smells and bells. Often you will also have a great choir with beautiful music. Whereas the low Mass has no externals, the High Mass usually has them all.

Here’s a video of a Solemn High Mass narrated by Fulton J. Sheen: youtube.com/watch?v=R6AOvStZS64
 
Nan_S said:
I was visiting southern Louisiana recently. When I consulted the phone book to find a Catholic Church I noted a listing for an SSPX church very close to my hotel, offering a traditional Latin Mass. So I chose to go worship there. The last time I attended a traditional Latin Mass in person was over 40 years ago. Occasionally since then I heard a traditional Latin Mass broadcast over the radio. I was hungering for the opportunity to go back.

I now have some questions, so I came here to ask. The mass wasn’t quite what I expected, and overall I found it a less-than-enriching spiritual experience. A good portion of the traditional Latin Mass at this SSPX church - the postures and gestures - was familiar from my young childhood recollections. But I was taken aback by the nearly complete silence on the part of the priest when saying the prayers of the mass.

Is this typical of a traditional Latin Mass? Does the priest normally offer the mass in an inaudible whisper? Or is he instead supposed to offer the mass in a low, but still audible, voice which the congregation can follow?

I had a Latin-English mass book in hand and expected to listen to the priest offer the Mass in Latin, while I read along joining in silent participation. With the near-total silence from the priest, what I actually found myself doing was reading the mass to myself, and hoping I wasn’t too far disconnected from whatever portion of the mass where the priest was at that moment. The opening prayers between the priest and the server were spoken in low, but still audible, murmer, which I followed fairly easily. After the opening prayers ended, however, nearly everything else was in an inaudible whisper. The scripture readings were proclaimed out loud in English, and the homily was also, of course. But everything else was almost completely silent.

Even though I had mass book in hand, it was difficult to make the connections and keep on track. Every now and then I saw the priest make a gesture or movement which indicated something was happening, or heard a murmered response from the server which helped me to jump ahead or back to the appropriate spot. The rest of the time I raced along in the mass book reading the prayers to myself, and somehow managed to end up on the page with the consecration prayers at about the same time the server rang the bell for the elevation of the Eucharist.

As I said, this was a less-than-enriching sprirtual experience. I felt like I was, unworthily, reciting the mass to God for myself, trying to keep pace with a priest who was saying the mass to God for himself, and surrounded by people who were completely isolated from each other. Except for the fact that the Eucharist was distributed (which I HAPPILY received on my knees), I might just as well have been reading the mass to myself while alone in a library.

I have attended the Novus Ordo Mass when presented in Latin and came away feeling inspired, challenged, enriched, and blessed. There is a sense of community at Novus Ordo Latin Masses, and I felt joined to the congregation and the whole church, as well as participating in a joining of the rich traditions of the church with the present and future.

That didn’t happen this particular Sunday. If the near-total silence by that priest is, indeed, typical of the way the traditional Latin Mass is supposed to be offered, I will have to say that I am disappointed. In that case, I will continue to seek out opportunities to attend the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin, but not the traditional Latin Mass.
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The silence is the way it was always done. You have to get familiar with it. Don’t give up! 40 years ago it’s possible you may have attended what they called a Dialogue Mass. This was an experimentation of saying some of the prayers out loud and singing before the New Mass came along. The beauty of the Latin Low Mass is the quiet because you pray the Mass from the Missal. You know what the priest is praying by what he is doing - by the rubrics.
 
Ultima_Ratio said:
You attended, what is called, a low Mass. A low Mass has no smells and bells. It is simply the Priest offering the Sacrifice to God with the faithful present. The low Mass is great if you know the Mass well and simply want to pray along with the Priest. It can be a time for deep devotion and spiritual benefit as you unite yourself with what is taking place upon the altar.

If you are new to the old Mass, I always recommend attending a High Mass; at least at first. The High Mass has a lot of pomp, and all the smells and bells. Often you will also have a great choir with beautiful music. Whereas the low Mass has no externals, the High Mass usually has them all.

Here’s a video of a Solemn High Mass narrated by Fulton J. Sheen: youtube.com/watch?v=R6AOvStZS64
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Thanks. Easter Sunday 1941 with the mass prayers sung aloud. I will watch the video.
James224 said:
The silence is the way it was always done. You have to get familiar with it. Don’t give up! 40 years ago it’s possible you may have attended what they called a Dialogue Mass. This was an experimentation of saying some of the prayers out loud and singing before the New Mass came along. The beauty of the Latin Low Mass is the quiet because you pray the Mass from the Missal. You know what the priest is praying by what he is doing - by the rubrics.
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On my TLM CD (which is a Low Mass) and on the radio, of course, all the prayers offered by the priest are audible. I really don’t remember whether the prayers were offered silently or aloud in the church itself when I was a child. I DO remember forgetting my headdress one Sunday and having my mom pin a kleenex to my head!!!

I see what you both are saying: at the Low TLM you are supposed to silently pray the Mass prayers yourself, simultaneously with the priest who is also praying them silently. You’re right about me being disconnected because I am unfamiliar with the rubrics. Sigh. Unfortunately this church was one I encountered while traveling; there is no church offering the TLM where I live.

Yet it seems to me that there’s a much stronger sense of community if the priest prays in an audible tone, with the congregation joining in unision either silently or with a low voice. The words of spoken prayer demand attention; they can not be avoided unless you make a conscious effort to avoid them. Spoken prayer surrounds you, guides your thoughts, and permeates your being. That’s how we pray outside the mass, and that’s how we pray together as families. That unity in prayer was what I hoped for, but did not feel during the silent TLM.

At the end of the TLM I attended, the priest led the community in a selection of rosary prayers spoken aloud by both priest and congregation. I very much appreciated joining those prayers.

I used to hear comments about the ladies clinking their beads as they prayed rosaries while the priest was praying the TLM. Doing that didn’t make sense to me, and you almost never see that done at a Novus Ordo Mass. Sure, rosaries are reverent, but praying one during the Eucharistic Prayer leaves you disconnected with what is happening at the altar. Now I understand a bit: if you don’t know the mass prayers, or have trouble following the mass, or feel unworthy to silently pray the actual mass prayers yourself, you might pray a rosary instead.
 
And the saints. The great thing about the Mass of Trent is that you can feel that presence in the silence instead of having a priest in your face hogging all the attention for himself. Such coreography invites megalomaniacs and drama queens to the priesthood which may help expain the sexual orientation - and behavior - of many today in seminaries and at altars. The secularists love what’s happened to the Church because it’s made the liturgy essentially a parody of its former dignity, and a television-hungry laity often uncomfortable with silence just eats it up…then fizzles out when a better circus or a warmer community comes to town (which are often contrived and balls-to-the-wall heretics). (I do not criticize the Second Vatican Council only its caricature which is all most of the laity ever see or hear.) High Mass is good. What actually did it for me was Divine Liturgy. Catholics are not to attend S.S.P.X. or S.S.P.V. anyways, but F.S.S.P. (the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter) might be good. I myself have often attended their Masses. Make sure a parish is in communion with Rome: that has to be our first priority (though it may entail a sacrifice: do your best to be reverent in all situations, pray for grace, think outside the box, and if all else fails go again). Yes, I always encourage people to attend the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom because it is, in my opinion, the best liturgy ever written.
 
Nan_S said:
That didn’t happen this particular Sunday. If the near-total silence by that priest is, indeed, typical of the way the traditional Latin Mass is supposed to be offered, I will have to say that I am disappointed. In that case, I will continue to seek out opportunities to attend the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin, but not the traditional Latin Mass.
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You shouldn’t feel sorry. The Novus Ordo Masses in Latin are a very legitimate form of the Catholic Mass. I think it’s terrific that people are encouraged to speak and sing the Latin. Personally I would like to see more of them for the reasons you mentioned.
 
As a general rule for life, never give up. Especially on things of God. When you aspire to things more sublime than what you’ve been fed you have a sacred duty to follow your heart provided it be within the bounds of Church teaching and discipline. Don’t settle, that’s all.
 
The great Catholic writer Francois Mauriac wrote that he had a preference for the mystical experience of the low mass to the majesty of high mass. When I was an altar boy I felt the same. But as noted to appreciate low mass one needs to know where the priest is at each moment.
 
Awhile back I read a book entitled Know Him in the Breaking of the Bread. I highly recommend it. Perhaps it’s time, too, for a book that explains the Tridentine Low Mass so that Catholics aren’t discouraged in their yearning for reverence and tradition. By bending the norms far further than the Second Vatican Council ever prescribed most parishes have unplugged the laity from their tradition. This is a travesty. Hence, we have to expect Catholics will want to return to what worked. It is like when your computer has a virus and you hit F8 when you restart it so you can select “Last settings that worked.” We seriously need to reboot and do some sort of system restore on the Liturgy. The preference has to be for what is time-tested not for what is novel. Every Catholic leader must surely know this, and thus one begins to question their loyalties when they seem to get off on pushing the envelope at every turn.
 
We can all learn something about tradition’s crucial role in spiritual warfare from the uncompromising, unpopular (among faithless clergy) witness of St. Padre Pio!
 
At_Trent said:
I’m very blessed. Nan, if you are ever in Louisville…

youtube.com/watch?v=xMrZ39QeKgY

youtube.com/watch?v=2XJJEp1Cpm0

youtube.com/watch?v=XDOdG-jBRBg
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I’ll take you up on the offer if I ever get in the area. Your videos are interesting. These are short excerpts. Do you have any of the entire mass?

I see that the video of the Feast of Christ the King includes the procession from the rear of the church, so we can see the congregation in attendance, and the archbishop was present. Sadly, it seems the pews were largely vacant; there appeared to be scarcely a handful more people in the congregation than the number of priests and servers present. I say sadly, because whenever the bishop visits the Novus Ordo church where I normally worship the pews are always packed and people are standing in the aisles.
 
Nan_S said:
I’ll take you up on the offer if I ever get in the area. Your videos are interesting. These are short excerpts. Do you have any of the entire mass?

I see that the video of the Feast of Christ the King includes the procession from the rear of the church, so we can see the congregation in attendance, and the archbishop was present. Sadly, it seems the pews were largely vacant; there appeared to be scarcely a handful more people in the congregation than the number of priests and servers present. I say sadly, because whenever the bishop visits the Novus Ordo church where I normally worship the pews are always packed and people are standing in the aisles.
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Those aren’t my videos, but if you go the the parish website, there is a webcam, and you can watch the entire Mass, EF or OF at 11 Am and 12:30 AM Sundays. No audio though.

There were probably 250 people at that Mass. Many last minute folks were held up on the vesticle steps ans outside until the procession began. It’s a large church too. That clip didn’t catch everyone near the the front and on the sides near the side altars.

Perhaps at the NO parish you mention, they are there to see the Bishop :cool:
 
At_Trent said:
Those aren’t my videos, but if you go the the parish website, there is a webcam, and you can watch the entire Mass, EF or OF at 11 Am and 12:30 AM Sundays. No audio though.

There were probably 250 people at that Mass. Many last minute folks were held up on the vesticle steps ans outside until the procession began. It’s a large church too. That clip didn’t catch everyone near the the front and on the sides near the side altars.

Perhaps at the NO parish you mention, they are there to see the Bishop :cool:
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Yes, they were. Normally our pews are 75 to 95 percent filled. When the bishop was there they were packed to overflowing. The overflow was mostly people who normally attend one of the other masses, rescheduling in honor of the bishop.

Good to hear that there were also many more people in attendance at your Feast of Christ the King Mass than your video showed.
 
ProVobis said:
It appears to turn off a lot of people but the Traditional Latin Mass follows the canons of the Council of Trent:
Session 22, Canon 9. If anyone says that the rite of the Roman Church, according to which a part of the canon and the words of consecration are pronounced in a low tone, is to be condemned; or that the mass ought to be celebrated in the vernacular tongue only;[28] or that water ought not to be mixed with the wine that is to be offered in the chalice because it is contrary to the institution of Christ,[29] let him be anathema.
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So, because I prefer it when the Canon (or other licit Eucharistic prayer) is audible as opposed to silent, I’m anathema?

I’d write more, but it’s getting late.
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SemiThomist said:
So, because I prefer it when the Canon (or other licit Eucharistic prayer) is audible as opposed to silent, I’m anathema?

I’d write more, but it’s getting late.
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No, it is a legitimate matter of preference. The anathema applies to anyone who says that the rite itself (ritum) “damnandum esse” – that it ought to be damned, condemned. If you don’t think that the silent Canon ought to be “condemned” in se, so much as that it is not to your liking and/or that it is a bad idea for various pragmatic reasons, that does not fall under the anathema. On my reading, even if you thought that the practice of saying the Canon silently was damnable, but not the entire rite itself, that would probably not be within the ambit of the anathema either, although it’s tougher to tell. But, to be sure, “I think it’s better when done audibly” is a completely orthodox position to hold.
 
I love a Low Mass. I love the quiet, the opportunity for contemplation. I love everything about it. We never have one though.
 
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