Silly questions

[Claudius]

I have been noticing some things and I really must say that I don’t understand them.

Why do Eastern Orthodox people come here to post? I am not saying that you can’t come here or that you shouldn’t come here but a lot of what is going on here is Catholics argueing with Eastern Orthodox people about stuff and that just seems to me to belong on the Non Catholic Groups forum, not the Eastern Catholic Forum.

Another part of this is why do Eastern Orthodox, not all but many, come here just to argue? Do you think that if you can beat up a Catholic on an internet forum that you will be able to steal Eastern Catholics away from Christ and Catholicism?

Another thing about this that troubles me is why do Eastern Orthodox go out of their way to try to convert Eastern Catholics because they think it is somehow better to not be Catholic, anything but Catholic, but they don’t care about me? If it really were somehow better, and I really can’t see how for the life of me, to be outside the Catholic Church than in, why would you only be worried about people based on their ritual or ethnicity? You don’t care at all that I am in the Catholic Church. You don’t want to convert me, you just want to slap my face to say that I am somehow just wrong because I am not Eastern European or Middle Eastern. Eastern Orthodox basically tell me that I am not welcome in their churches because my skin in the wrong color or because I know Latin. I have to say, I just don’t get that.

And Finally, a question to my Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters. Why do you care so much about what the Eastern Orthodox think of you? I understand that you have your Eastern Identity and that it isn’t Latin but that is not what I am talking about. I have seen on these forums Eastern Catholics denouncing the Catholic Church that they are a part of because they want to be more Eastern. I don’t get that. Some Eastern Catholics are adopting very recent modifications to their liturgies and devotions because the Eastern Orthodox are adopting them. Isn’t there something wrong with that. I thought Eastern Catholicism was for Catholics who use Eastern rites, not simply to be a mirror image of Eastern Orthodoxy. Just because Eastern Orthodoxy adopts a new saint or ritual or prayer does not mean that Eastern Catholics should just follow suit. Don’t you all have your own leadership for that. I know the Eastern Orthodox don’t care what you think of them, so why do you care so much how they see you.

I think I kind of see what it going on. EO wants to say that EC are invalid and will point to anything to do it. So they change their prex and if they EC does not follow suit they will be called Latinized, or heretical for another reason. But it is the EO that is changing, not EC.

And it isn’t just ritual. Thought and theology that was once very firmly held by EC but has been altered by the EO are having an effect on the EC. Why would a EC member tell me that unleavened bread was invalid for Mass if this was not the case?

I must say it really bothers me when Eastern Catholics buddy up with people outside of the Catholic Church but won’t be deal with Latin because they just are Latins. Last time I checked, the patriarch in Moscow had ZERO authority in the actual Catholic Church.

Yah, Yah I understand Oecumenism and all that but the facts remain.

So someone please tell me, is this a forum for talking about Catholic, specifically Eastern Catholic issues or is this a Eastern Orthodox Forum for talking about how Eastern Catholics should do as the Eastern Orthodox tell them and break with the Catholic Church. If this is just a Eastern Orthodox versus Eastern Catholic Forum I will be happy to just spend my time on the traditional Catholicism forum discouraging schism there.

I don’t mean to be offensive in any of this but really, I have been wondering about this.

 

[Aramis]

Keep in mind:

Byzantine Catholics and Canonical Orthodox share the same basics of faith and practice. Some, like Bishop Basil of Phoenix, provide a wonderful contribution to the knowledge base, and are not here being polemical.

Others, no names mentioned, come here to convince Catholics of the Byzantine and Oriental Catholic Churches to “take the last step” and go to Eastern Orthodoxy.

Some Oriental Orthodox posters likewise are trying to do the same, but for the Coptic Orthodox Union, rather than the Eastern Orthodox one.

Some of them genuinely believe we’re going to hell if we don’t translate.
Some of them come because they are not certain we are wrong to be in union, and to try and understand why we are in union with Rome.
Some come simply for the fun of debate.

 

[Athanasiy]

Of course the proves without proves and arguments without arguments are not impress and not convince , but may be can be bored and useless.
But I think its good for the forum to have the debates of different religious confessions and traditions.
Good debates are required !
More learned and educated specialists are needed and always must be welcome !
The real religion experts , historians , philosophers…
It would be nice that more and more learned and educated followers would take part in the debates and discussions.

 

[Peter_J]

I have been noticing some things and I really must say that I don’t understand them.

Why do Eastern Orthodox people come here to post? I am not saying that you can’t come here or that you shouldn’t come here but a lot of what is going on here is Catholics argueing with Eastern Orthodox people about stuff and that just seems to me to belong on the Non Catholic Groups forum, not the Eastern Catholic Forum.

I’m not as active on the Eastern Catholicism forum as I am on the Non-Catholic Religions forum; but I have noticed that, as you say, there’s a good deal of discussion here about the differences and similarities between Catholics and Orthodox. Indeed, even if one simply looks down the list of threads, it’s easy to see that for every few threads about Eastern Catholicism there’s one about Eastern Orthodoxy. I also note, however, that very few of those threads were started by Eastern Orthodox posters, so it seems to me that your criticism (assuming it’s valid) is somewhat misdirected.

 

[Peter_J]

Another part of this is why do Eastern Orthodox, not all but many, come here just to argue?

Just out of idle curiosity (I’m not likely to be influenced by your opinion) do you think that Eastern Orthodox do so more than Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Presbyterians, and so on and so forth?

 

[Volodymyr]

EASTERN CATHOLIC sait

This is quite good consideration - what is role of Orthodox believerrs at such a sait. What I consider important is that I have to read and write to English speaking people (as also does my countryman Atansiy). Also have great respect for Catolic church and wish for unity of all Christian churches. Bishop of Rome has stated that Eastern Catolics are to help create Unity with Christian East. Sometimes it must be to state my opinion that this may not be true - but just opinion of mine. I think Atanasiy nor other greko-Catolics are shocked by that. We have a long history of arguing with each other - and worse. Do not be upset.

I do not try to convert anyone - only to offer information - such as identify Icon, explain certain ritulsisms - or give opinion. These opinions you may believe are attempts to convert - because my opinion and my belief are Orthodox. But I only offer them both to Greko-Catoics like Atansiy but also for Romo-Catolics, ateists, Muslemans and any others who want to read them.

But why do you as a RomoCatolic come to such a sait - probably to learn (perhaps writing in English and not Japanese is also helpful to you) and to offer your opinion - as you have here.

 

[Claudius]

These answer most of my question so thanks to all you who posted.

I suppose most of these questions come out of frustration on my part.

I just don’t see the need to argue over long established truths.

I just with the forum was more possive and way less negative.

 

[avinash]

keep trying:shrug:

 

[theistgal]

I understand exactly how you feel. I’m very interested in Orthodoxy but get irritated by the polemical nature of some of the debates.

However, please know that there are Orthodox who are genuinely interested in discussion rather than argument. You probably don’t see too many of them here because it’s just the nature of the Internet for people who believe one thing to go to people who believe other things and tell them why they’re wrong.

I was once a member of a forum discussing long hair for women, and people with short hair would come in and tell us why short hair was better! It happens everywhere! (and uh, yes, I have since cut my hair, but NOT because of the evil short-hair proselytes! so there! )

 

[Diak]

Claudius, quite honestly, it can be something that the Latin Catholic has difficulty with. There is no corresponding condition or phenomena in the Latin Church to compare with the situation between Orthodox and Eastern Catholics.

As you have read, there are certainly still tensions over the idea of communion with Rome, even centuries after the Union. It is good that we are still talking about these ideas and have a place to discuss them. And there are serious and significant issues of primacy and theology that are involved.

As Atanasy and Volodymyr have mentioned, this is nothing new in countries where both Greek Catholics and Orthodox have coexisted since the respective Unions. I suppose, unfortunately, those of us who have been at this for any length of time are used to it. It’s complicated, with historical, theological, cultural, political and ethnic considerations all thrown in together.

And perhaps it is a Slavic trait that we sometimes like to argue and are quite stubborn - there is a saying that if you have two Ukrainians you have three opinions. But if you have three Ukrainians, you have a new choir. We are all proud of our heritage and church, and that sometimes is reflected in the passion of our responses.

But on Svyaty Vechir, Yordan, Paskha, etc. we are all closer than we sometimes realize. We are all brothers, even if it does not sometimes look like it in writing. Brothers in a family can have serious disagreements, for sure.

Thanks for putting up with us, even us troublesome and rabble-rousing Ukies. Remember the Kozaks - not exactly known for keeping the peace. Z’Bohom.
FDRLB

 

[DoxRox]

I can only speak personally, but I post here when I’m bored, and I figure that reading about religion when I’m bored couldn’t hurt. I don’t presume I’m here to convert Eastern Catholics. See, there’s this document called the Balamand Agreement that my Patriarch signed not too long ago…

The OP should also remember that the internet can be a more hostile place than the real world, and that in the grander scheme of things, similarities in eastern Christian theology can often keep things amicable between eastern Christians. This can often cross confessional lines.

I don’t think the cultural aspects that Diak cites (ex. the Slavic) can be ignored either. Some of the debates are way over the head of this western Christian culturally.

 

[Peter_J]

The OP should also remember that the internet can be a more hostile place than the real world, and that in the grander scheme of things, similarities in eastern Christian theology can often keep things amicable between eastern Christians.

Boy howdy! But at the same, I think there are quite a few of us Catholics (EC and LC alike) on the “Non-Catholic Religions Forum” who are down-right friendly toward the Orthodox. freesmileys.org/smileys/happy066.gif