Similar to Marital Debt Question

[LighthouseRon]

My wife and I have problems when it comes to marital relations because she simply doesn’t enjoy it. She would much rather just snuggle at night in bed before going to sleep and we do that every night. That’s enjoyable too but as a husband, the ultimate intimacy is something I would like more often. My wife is willing to accommodate me but the problem is it’s obvious she doesn’t enjoy it, especially when I hear comments like “hurry up” and “concentrate” when it is my “turn”. I’ve found that if we don’t have relations at all it is easier for me to deal with, but she gets hurt and tells me she has failed as a wife, but when it is so obvious she doesn’t enjoy it, I think it is better that way. Currently we have relations once or twice a month. I find that refraining from relations makes it easier for me to avoid other temptations such as self gratification, which is a sin I’ve just overcome in the last year. She won’t talk to her doctor about her lack of libido, saying it is normal for a woman to not have desire for relations, and her mother even told her sex was something a wife has to “put up with”.

Am I wrong to ask we cease our marital relations? I don’t want to hurt her but if she doesn’t enjoy it, why do it? I certainly don’t find it enjoyable if I know she really isn’t interested.

 

[1ke]

Your wife needs counseling, desperately. It is not normal for a woman to have no desire for marital relations. Remember, God created sex and He created everything good. She has obviously been influenced by her mother’s crazy notions about “putting up with it”. That is a disordered view of sexuality.

While it would be tremendously virtuous of you to forego relations with your wife and live in complete continence, it does NOT solve the problem nor is it fair to you-- that is not what marriage is, you’re not merely roommates with a tax deduction. There is a huge underlying issue here and your wife’s skewed view of sexuality needs to be addressed. Not only for her, but for any children you may have-- you don’t want her perpetuating this down to children.

Talk to your priest ASAP-- alone if she will not go. She has deep issues, these won’t be resolved overnight. You are to be commended for your patience and desire to do right by your wife.

 

[jc411]

LighthouseRon:

Am I wrong to ask we cease our marital relations? I don’t want to hurt her but if she doesn’t enjoy it, why do it? I certainly don’t find it enjoyable if I know she really isn’t interested.

You would be wrong to do that if the result is that your unvented libido causes you to sin or be overly tempted toward sin. This is not helpful to either of you, really. Why do it then? You’re the only one who can answer that. You may have to appeal to her to not act like it is such a burden.

She may have inherited this from her mom, biologically speaking. I have the impression that where the marriage debt is concerned, she is “rendering” it, but rubbing your face in it. Too bad. Imagine if you gave her a Christmas gift this year and made sure she knows how much you HATED buying it, and what trouble it was, and all that.

Pepole are turning this marriage debt into all kinds of emotional, sensitive issues that it is just not about. Brendad posted well previously, that it is 1) procreative, 2) unitative, 3) to relieve the danger of lustful thoughts, tendencies to impurity. Any of these 3 are enough reason to request the debt.

The normal state of marriage is conjugality. NOT abstinence. Abstinence should be left to people with vocations to the single life. In marriage, abstinence reepresents an unusual arrangement, reserved for exceptional situations.

 

[snoopy]

The term “marital debt” is such a turn off. Can’t you think of another way to put it?

 

[Consecrated]

jc411:

You would be wrong to do that if the result is that your unvented libido causes you to sin or be overly tempted toward sin. This is not helpful to either of you, really. Why do it then? You’re the only one who can answer that. You may have to appeal to her to not act like it is such a burden.

She may have inherited this from her mom, biologically speaking. I have the impression that where the marriage debt is concerned, she is “rendering” it, but rubbing your face in it. Too bad. Imagine if you gave her a Christmas gift this year and made sure she knows how much you HATED buying it, and what trouble it was, and all that.

Don’t forget to pray constantly for your dear wife! Our Lord can work miracles.

 

[frogman80]

snoopy:

The term “marital debt” is such a turn off. Can’t you think of another way to put it?

It is only a turn off if you do not understand it in its proper context.

 

[frogman80]

LighthouseRon:

My wife and I have problems when it comes to marital relations because she simply doesn’t enjoy it. She would much rather just snuggle at night in bed before going to sleep and we do that every night. That’s enjoyable too but as a husband, the ultimate intimacy is something I would like more often. My wife is willing to accommodate me but the problem is it’s obvious she doesn’t enjoy it, especially when I hear comments like “hurry up” and “concentrate” when it is my “turn”. I’ve found that if we don’t have relations at all it is easier for me to deal with, but she gets hurt and tells me she has failed as a wife, but when it is so obvious she doesn’t enjoy it, I think it is better that way. Currently we have relations once or twice a month. I find that refraining from relations makes it easier for me to avoid other temptations such as self gratification, which is a sin I’ve just overcome in the last year. She won’t talk to her doctor about her lack of libido, saying it is normal for a woman to not have desire for relations, and her mother even told her sex was something a wife has to “put up with”.

Am I wrong to ask we cease our marital relations? I don’t want to hurt her but if she doesn’t enjoy it, why do it? I certainly don’t find it enjoyable if I know she really isn’t interested.

To all:
This is a prime example of the marriage debt not being fulfilled. The marriage debt is not about giving in; it is about a meeting of the will. It is about willingly (out of love) giving your body to your spouse.

To LighthouseRon:
I am sorry for your situation. I would seek advice from a priest, and maybe look for some Catholic consoling for your family.

"She won’t talk to her doctor about her lack of libido, saying it is normal for a woman to not have desire for relations, and her mother even told her sex was something a wife has to “put up with” "

This is not true… she needs to talk to someone about this.

I have a question… you say it is obvious that she doesn’t enjoy it… (and It appears to be so) but have you asked her about it? Have you asked her what you can do differently to help her enjoy it?

 

[deb1]

LighthouseRon:

She won’t talk to her doctor about her lack of libido, saying it is normal for a woman to not have desire for relations, and her mother even told her sex was something a wife has to “put up with”.

Am I wrong to ask we cease our marital relations? I don’t want to hurt her but if she doesn’t enjoy it, why do it? I certainly don’t find it enjoyable if I know she really isn’t interested.

As a woman who very much enjoys sex, I can say that your wife’s lack of desire is not normal. Far from it. Her problem might be hormonal or her mother might have installed a sense of guilt so strong in her that she is unable to allow herself to experience pleasure during sex. Either way a Doctor or a therapist is a must for her. I would try a therapist first because you will both be present during the appointment and you can explain your side to the therapist. If she is having a physical problem then the therapist can convince her to accept that and get appropriate treatment.

It sounds as if you are in a Catch-22. If you don’t have sex then your wife feels that you don’t love her but if you do, then you have to feel guilty for doing so. Here is a sensitive question. Does your wife enjoy being a marytr? I ask because she does not seem hesitant to let you know that having sex is a chore for her, something that she puts up with for your benefit.

 

[CuriousInIL]

LighthouseRon:

Am I wrong to ask we cease our marital relations? I don’t want to hurt her but if she doesn’t enjoy it, why do it? I certainly don’t find it enjoyable if I know she really isn’t interested.

While the responses to date are interesting, I do not see that many of them have answered your question.

IMO the answer is no it is not wrong to ask and also not wrong to cease if you both agree to that.

 

[CuriousInIL]

LighthouseRon:

I’ve found that if we don’t have relations at all it is easier for me to deal with, but she gets hurt and tells me she has failed as a wife, but when it is so obvious she doesn’t enjoy it, I think it is better that way. Currently we have relations once or twice a month. I find that refraining from relations makes it easier for me to avoid other temptations such as self gratification, which is a sin I’ve just overcome in the last year.

jc411:

You would be wrong to do that **if the result is that your unvented libido causes you to sin **or be overly tempted toward sin. This is not helpful to either of you, really. Why do it then? You’re the only one who can answer that. You may have to appeal to her to not act like it is such a burden.

Listening (or here reading) is a skill.

 

[jegow]

LighthouseRon:

My wife and I have problems when it comes to marital relations because she simply doesn’t enjoy it.

Have you told her you have noticed this? Have you addressed why you have problems when it comes to that? I am not in your situation but I would hope that addressing the matter with her would give you more insight than a forum can provide.

LighthouseRon:

her mother even told her sex was something a wife has to “put up with”

That comment from the mother is “too bad.” It is a shame anyone has to think of the conjugal act in that way. It makes it sound like the woman has to put up with some sort of primitive act that enslaves them, having to put up with it.

LighthouseRon:

Am I wrong to ask we cease our marital relations? I don’t want to hurt her but if she doesn’t enjoy it, why do it? I certainly don’t find it enjoyable if I know she really isn’t interested.

I would not call it quits because the conjugal union is a part of marriage. To call it quits so that your wife doesn’t have to put up with it is wrong. Maybe one way of not calling it quits is to find help for this problem she has. There could be a lot of things that are affecting her libido. There could be some sort of a physical problem that is causing some sort of chemical imbalance or a psychological reason – I don’t know (I’m not a doctor). But I would say not to lose hope and as other people in this thread have said – pray for her even more that she can over come this.

 

[crobynb]

I am so sorry you are going through this. I do not think this situation is normal. She should seek counseling or a consultation with a family doctor to see if there is an emotional or medical reason that she has no sex drive.

I think that a healthy level of intimacy is so important in a marriage. It is not all that matters of course, but it is a special aspect of sharing your love. There are times that I may not be exactly in the mood but I never turn my hubby away and absolutely every time I end up having just as much fun as he does. (That might be how I wound up with a bun in the oven . . . )

But anyways, I applaud you for your willingness to satisfy her wishes while neglecting your own - but you should not have to!!! It is unfair of her to make you feel rushed or that she is inconvenienced while you “do your business”. It is one thing to respect a spouses inability to make love if their are health restrictions or other extenuating circumstances, but it is entirely different when it boils down to her only doing it to fulfill her “duty”. Love should not be a burdensome chore - it is a gift to each other.

So, again I think counseling or a doctors visit would be in order. A marriage retreat/encounter or something may not be a bad idea either. Good luck to you!

 

[Myangel]

LighthouseRon:

My wife and I have problems when it comes to marital relations because she simply doesn’t enjoy it. She would much rather just snuggle at night in bed before going to sleep and we do that every night. That’s enjoyable too but as a husband, the ultimate intimacy is something I would like more often. My wife is willing to accommodate me but the problem is it’s obvious she doesn’t enjoy it, especially when I hear comments like “hurry up” and “concentrate” when it is my “turn”. I’ve found that if we don’t have relations at all it is easier for me to deal with, but she gets hurt and tells me she has failed as a wife, but when it is so obvious she doesn’t enjoy it, I think it is better that way. Currently we have relations once or twice a month. I find that refraining from relations makes it easier for me to avoid other temptations such as self gratification, which is a sin I’ve just overcome in the last year. She won’t talk to her doctor about her lack of libido, saying it is normal for a woman to not have desire for relations, and her mother even told her sex was something a wife has to “put up with”.

Am I wrong to ask we cease our marital relations? I don’t want to hurt her but if she doesn’t enjoy it, why do it? I certainly don’t find it enjoyable if I know she really isn’t interested.

Hi there, just wondering has your wife ever suffered from any illness such as cancer or suffered from a hormonal disorder? I only ask because my mother suffered from Cancer twice 7 years apart and the medication that she was on threw her libido right out the door and the doctors told her that it was normal but there are therapies that can be used and can work. You are both in my prayers.

 

[snoopy]

frogman80:

It is only a turn off if you do not understand it in its proper context.

No, it is a turn off no matter what.How about marital relations? Something that doesn’t sound quite so demanding.

 

[YinYangMom]

CuriousInIL:

IMO the answer is no it is not wrong to ask and also not wrong to cease if you both agree to that.

Your opinion is not that of the Church.

It **is **wrong to cease marital relations soley because one of you don’t like it or because it’s more convenient.

The only time a healthy, capable married couple can choose to refrain from marital relations within a marriage is if together, as one, they choose to refrain in sacrifice to our Lord…as a means to grow closer to God…it is their joint offering to Him.

fisheaters.com//101.html:
In the rare instance that both spouses mutually consent to not exercise their marital rights and decide to remain sexually continent in imitation of Joseph and Mary and for the sake of the Kingdom, the marriage is termed a “Josephite marriage.”

 

[CuriousInIL]

That’s exactly what I said.

 

[YinYangMom]

CuriousInIL:

That’s exactly what I said.

Ok then maybe I’m confused…this is how your post came out:

no it is not wrong to ask and also not wrong to cease if you both agree to that.

That appears to me to be telling the OP it is ok for him to ask his wife to cease marital relations since she doesn’t enjoy it and it’s better for him to not insist on it from her.

It also appears to be telling the OP that it is ok since they would both agree to it.

What I’m clarifying is it is wrong for him to ask that of her if he’s only doing it because he doesn’t want to insist since she doesn’t enjoy it…and that agreeing to it is not the only condition making such a marriage ‘Josephite’.

The reason for a Josephite marriage is at the core of whether or not it is indeed, ‘Josephite’ and thus accepted by the Church. The only reason must be to serve God **together **in order to grow closer to Him through the sacrifice of marital relations.

Now what sacrifice is there if both parties really aren’t into the sex thing? Minimal. Do you really think that would be pleasing to God? Do you really think that would bring the couple closer to Him?

 

[Flopfoot]

snoopy:

No, it is a turn off no matter what.How about marital relations? Something that doesn’t sound quite so demanding.

Thing is, I wonder if all you want to do is change the name, or if what you really want to do is change the nature. Even if we called it ‘marital relations’ it would still be marital debt - would you be okay with that?
Doesn’t it say somewhere that a rose by any other name would strill smell as sweet?
Do you actually want to contribute something to this discussion, but feel that you can’t because you don’t want to use that term? If that’s the case, feel free to call it whatever you want, we’ll understand.

 

[CuriousInIL]

YinYangMom:

Ok then maybe I’m confused…this is how your post came out:

That appears to me to be telling the OP it is ok for him to ask his wife to cease marital relations since she doesn’t enjoy it and it’s better for him to not insist on it from her.

It also appears to be telling the OP that it is ok since they would both agree to it.

What I’m clarifying is it is wrong for him to ask that of her if he’s only doing it because he doesn’t want to insist since she doesn’t enjoy it…and that agreeing to it is not the only condition making such a marriage ‘Josephite’.

The reason for a Josephite marriage is at the core of whether or not it is indeed, ‘Josephite’ and thus accepted by the Church. The only reason must be to serve God **together **in order to grow closer to Him through the sacrifice of marital relations.

Now what sacrifice is there if both parties really aren’t into the sex thing? Minimal. Do you really think that would be pleasing to God? Do you really think that would bring the couple closer to Him?

So, if “both parties really aren’t into the sex thing” then they cannot give up sex becuase that wouldn’t p;ease God? Is that really your position?

 

[LighthouseRon]

I guess I’m not getting the right question answered. Let me try phrasing it this way. Is it selfish of me to discontinue relations with her so that I can more easily deal with my temptations? As I’ve said, she clearly (and has told me) she doesn’t enjoy relations anyway, but the church says we should continue, even though it has turned into a physical activity as opposed to an emotional bonding experience. Our 10 year marriage has been pretty good despite the lack of physical intimacy, but I see us drifting apart in the last year or so because we are involved with more things and I think we have both become more self centered. We seldom talk about things of mutual interest and we are less concerned about the other’s life. It sounds worse than it is, but I see us drifting that direction.

I’ve come to accept that relations 1 or 2 times a month is what it is going to be, if I accept it. I’m pretty sure that’s not the norm, if there is one. It has gotten to where I think it is better to stop relations all together because after some time has passed, my urge decreases, lessening my temptation for related sins.