Simple/impossible question?

[high1]

Hello

An impossible question, I know, but I am attempting, in one paragraph to encapsulate Augustine’s teachings on original sin and salvation.

This is my attempt: man has sinned of his own account and he and his offspring are
condemned as sinners. Man has no choice in whether or not he is ‘saved’; this is for
God’s mercy. Some will have eternal salvation, others will not. This is the official view of Catholicism.

Is that accurate?

Thanks for any advice.

High1

 

[CB_Catholic]

Hello

An impossible question, I know, but I am attempting, in one paragraph to encapsulate Augustine’s teachings on original sin and salvation.

This is my attempt: man has sinned of his own account and he and his offspring are
condemned as sinners. Man has no choice in whether or not he is ‘saved’; this is for
God’s mercy. Some will have eternal salvation, others will not. This is the official view of Catholicism.

Is that accurate?

Thanks for any advice.

High1

Not quite. Mankind has inherited original sin from Adam and Eve (the first humans who disobeyed God). We do not have to be condemned as sinners, Christ redeemed all of mankind, and by Baptism we are freed from that original sin, although we still have the choice to commit personal sin by our free will. Salvation is a free gift given to us by God, we cannot earn it, but the choice to cooperate with God and accept that gift is up to us. Some will have eternal salvation, some will not, that is true, but that is dependant on our choices. The mercy and forgiveness of God is offered to all, we have to choose to accept them and be saved or reject them and be lost.

Don’t confuse redemption and salvation.

Others here may be able to explain it better than me. I am not a theologian, but this is my understanding.

 

[TheDoctor]

…I know, but I am attempting, in one paragraph to encapsulate Augustine’s teachings on original sin and salvation.

Sorry, I’m not an Augustine scholar but I can help out with the “official view” of Catholicism. If you are referencing a specific Augustine writing it would probably help to post the reference so those more knowledeable on his writings can address your questions.

man has sinned of his own account

Accurate. God holds us responsible for the choices we make.

…he and his offspring are condemned as sinners.

Inaccurate. The sins of a father or mother are their own and do not pass to anyone else.

…Man has no choice in whether or not he is ‘saved’

Inaccurate. We have free will and can choose to accept God or reject him, at our peril.

…this is for God’s mercy. Some will have eternal salvation, others will not. This is the official view of Catholicism.

Accurate. God wills that all have eternal salvation, yet in his love he gives us the freedom to reject him.

 

[aicirt]

Hello

An impossible question, I know, but I am attempting, in one paragraph to encapsulate Augustine’s teachings on original sin and salvation.

This is my attempt: man has sinned of his own account and he and his offspring are
condemned as sinners. Man has no choice in whether or not he is ‘saved’; this is for
God’s mercy. Some will have eternal salvation, others will not. This is the official view of Catholicism.

Is that accurate?

Thanks for any advice.

High1

No, not according to Catholicism. Catholics don’t believe in predestination. You’re saved though faith and good works.

 

[Malleus_01]

Malleus: I dont disagree with the other two answers. Here is my two cents worth (adjusted for inflation)

Hello

An impossible question, I know, but I am attempting, in one paragraph to encapsulate Augustine’s teachings on original sin and salvation.

Malleus: If you can do that you are a greater man than I.

This is my attempt: man has sinned of his own account and he and his offspring are
condemned as sinners.

Malleus: Keep in mind that Adam and Eve lived in paradise and only had to obey one Commandment and since they were not under the yoke of Original Sin at the time - they didnt have the propensity to Sin that everyone since has (Except Our Lord and the Blessed Virgin). Because they sinned against GOD himself directly - it was a very great
SIN and one that has lasting ramificattions. But think about it this way. The Angels in Hell only sinned one time and there is no redemption for them no matter what they do.

Man has no choice in whether or not he is ‘saved’; this is for
God’s mercy.

Malleus: But as St Paul said - no man is tempted beyond his strength. And GOD gives us the means to overcome that temptation through his Grace and the Sacraments which we have because he likewise Sacrificed for our sins the very lifeblood of his only begottten Son. Jesus Died because Adam and Eve and alll of us Sin. He didnt sin. He paid the price. So when it comes right down to it - GOD has done all he can to save us. We have the choice. Its on us not to sin. Its on us to live our faith. Its on us to live as he instructed us to live. To conform our own human free will to the Will of GOD voluntarily. We most certainly do have a choice. Yes we need his mercy - but he will give his mercy if we petition it. Our Lord said to ask to recieve - to seek to find to knock and have it opened. That requires us to choose to do it.

Some will have eternal salvation, others will not. This is the official view of Catholicism.

Malleus: But we have one thing going for us. JESUS Himself is OUR Judge. He is the one who suffered for MY Sins. When he judges me - I will render an accounting to him for all my faults and failings and answer to him for every single sin I committed and temporal punishments due to the stain of forgiven mortal sins. In thought in word and in deed. In my favor are all my good works of Charity for Others - Penance - Suffferings - sacrifices - Fastings - Prayers mine and those who have prayed for me - Rosaries - Devotions -
Masses I have attended everything good I have done on the plus side. On the negative side - will be all of my Sins both great and small and the Grace GOD gave for me to overcome those sins will be told to me then - but I didnt listen when and the sin is held against me. And JESUS being infinitely good will render his just judgement. People who go to Hell deserve to be there. People who go to purgatory deserve to be there. People who go to Heaven are judged worthy by GOD the Son.

Is that accurate?

Malleus: Jesus came to save us , not to condemn us. We only get condemned if we fail to observe the Laws of GOD and not partake of the graces he sends us to resist Sin. Its accurate to say - that no one is condemned unjustly.

Thats my 2 cents worth.

Thanks for any advice.

High1

Pax

 

[Poco]

Wow! Trying to put in one paragraph what others have written entire books on!
Admittedly I have not read all of St. Augustine. Having said that, I would only question this part;

Man has no choice in whether or not he is ‘saved’…

I think St. Augustine would believe “Man” has a “choice” if he were to accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.
Again I think we are being limited by language. Obviously only God will “choose” who is saved or not. However, “Man” may “choose” to obey or disobey God.

In any case, I think you’re mostly accurate!

As far as the “Official Catholic Position”… I will do more research.

 

[high1]

Hello!

Very many thanks to all of you for your kind replies.

One or two of them appear not to concord with others, so I suppose that is down to individual reading of the relevant texts and interpretation.

Anyway, you have all been most helpful.

Best regards

High1