Simple Solutions to the Problem of Evil

[vz71]

Well, if there is a creator, and the creator made things so animals would suffer, then I think that was wrong. And if I am his creation, I guess he will not be pleased with that. But it is what I think,

You speak as though the entire purpose of the animal is to suffer.
That is not the case.
Suffering is just another part of life.

You may think it wrong, but you do not have all of the information necessary to make the determination.
Nor do you have the authority.

 

[Samuel_Maynes]

morality, as we know it, is not Christian and the problem with a legalistic moral system (see Father Stephen):

fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/why-morality-is-not-christian/

Constantine,

The good Father says the “problem of sin” is not a legal duty (deontological) problem, but more basically an issue of human nature and being (ontological). He goes on to say that our salvation is not a juridical matter.

I think maybe on Judgment Day, Jesus will ask: What can you do, and what have you done lately? Let’s look at your records, shall we. I imagine that He will then direct each person to the mansion world most appropriate for him. I expect that in all important dimensions of value, you will start off over there, right where you left off down here, but with some important new learning advantages.

Father Stephen then goes into a bit of a rant against justice and pure practical reason, ignoring the promised face-to-face meeting with God. The lawless Father claims that when you are saved by Jesus, through your own internal change, then you are free from law (and divine Judgment).

He says “As for justice - it remains a mystery.” Now I ask you, could Jesus have made it clearer to everybody? Not retributive justice (eye for an eye), but tough love justice with mercy - Do not as you are, but as you would be done. This is the Golden Rule of universal morality, to which Jesus added the challenge to love your enemies and forgive them, even as your Father in heaven loves and forgives you.

The unscientific Father condemns rational morality as atheist science - “an abstract exercise of reason based on principles which are merely assumed.”

The good Father then concludes that modern morality is a “fiction.”

I must admit that I sometimes agee with him about “modernism.” However, would you please go back and reread my earlier posting about morality and Kant’s three postulates of practical reason: freewill, God, and immortality. What part of this proof do you challenge as fiction?

Samuel Stuart Maynes
www.trinityabsolute.com

 

[fisherman_carl]

Athiests pose the questions:

1. Why would a perfectly good God would allow evil?
2. If God knew mankind was going to fall, why didn’t he create humans that were less vulnerable to sin?
3. Why do innocents (children) suffer?
4. Why does God allow natural disasters, which are unrelated to human sin?

Answer to 1: Is there true love without free will? Can you truly love an entity in which you have no choice but to love it? God allowed evil to come into the world because he wanted men to love him freely and truthfully. Without the existence of evil, there would be no real choice. Evil is obviously the worse choice, but it is still a choice. Without knowing and experiencing what is evil, one cannot truly understand the good that is God. It’s like all the unsuccessful relationships you have before you marry your spouse. Without those bad relationships, you wouldn’t know how truly lucky you are to be married to your spouse, and therefore wouldn’t feel nearly as happy and content. What if you were in an arranged marriage from birth? Even if your arranged spouse was beautiful and kind, would you be more content with him/her over someone you chose yourself?

I agree that God gives us free will so that we can choose to love. I would also add that he allows evil so that a greater good would result. And, that is his salvation that we find in Christ and the glory that we will share with him, that would not have been possible if we did not have free will and thus the possibility of evil. God does not cause evil but allows its possibility in giving his creatures free will.

Answer to 2: God alone is perfect. It is His very essence. Since we are not God, we cannot be perfect. Also, our imperfection and sin only makes us love God more. Jesus explains this perfectly in the Parable of the Two Debtors and the Parable of the Prodigal Son. Who loves the lender more: The one who has the smaller debt forgiven or the one who has the larger debt forgiven? Who loves their father more: the righteous son, or the prodigal son? If man had never been separated from God through Original Sin, we would never know the unending joy and gratitude of being redeemed through His Son. As the saying goes, “Separation makes the heart grow fonder.”

Also, does not a perfect man, like Adam was before the fall, necessitate that he had the ability to be disobedient? I believe GK Chesterton said something about this but I can not remember what it was.

Answer to 3: It truly is a tragedy when children suffer and die. But considering that there is evil in this world, maybe God is actually sparing them from the suffering and temptation that they would face later in life. Maybe if the children had lived longer, they would have been worn down and depressed by the evils of this world, as so many are, and eventually rejected God and not achieved salvation. Maybe God decided they could skip all that hardship and come straight to Heaven to enjoy eternity with Him.

The only problem with this is that it is also a justification that people use for abortion. Yet, abortion is wrong. Peter Kreeft once said, the problem of children suffering is one of the 2 intelligent arguments for atheism.

The problems of suffering is something that remains to be a block to some people. For them it is hard to believe in a God that would allow suffering. Now, some of that is emotion. And, it is hard to argue with emotion. Only healing can suffice. I think the problem of suffering can be best addressed by what Peter Kreeft said, when he referred to scripture, “Behold I make all things new.” In the movie about Jesus by Mel Gibson, Mary goes up to Jesus while he is carrying his cross and she weeps and is sorrowful. She does not want him to suffer and questions why. And Jesus says, “Behold I make all things new.”

God may allow suffering to occur to innocent children, but I believe he uses that suffering for a greater good. I was listening to Mother Angelica talk on EWTN one time and she said that when God takes children to be with the Lord many people have experienced an increase of grace in their life, with people turning to God. God can use this suffering for a greater good. Some say that they now have someone in the family praying for them in heaven. And this was needed for them to find God themselves.

I believe suffering is used by God in his plan of redemption and thus is a necessary evil.

Answer to 4: God makes it rain on the good and the bad. If more and more people are going to be born into this world, some people are going to have to die to make room and let others enjoy the gift of life. Everyone has to die sometime, whether it be by illness or natural disaster. When an earthquake happens and thousands die, the good go to Heaven and the bad go to Hell. It’s no different than if they had died individually.

I would also say that death itself is related to human sin and therefore dying in natural disasters is still related to sin. But, death was conquered by Christ on the cross. As scripture says, death where is your sting? When Christ comes again he will resurrect our bodies and we will no longer be subject to death. Yet, it was necessary for Christ to die on our behalf so that this could occur. Thus, the evil of his death was allowed so that a greater good would result. Just like our death is an evil, but it too can be overcome with a greater good, for if we die in Christ, we shall live forever.

 

[fisherman_carl]

Which one of these explains why animals, birds, fish, insects and other beings capable of experiencing pain do so, and in their hundreds of millions, day after day after day?

The evil of animals suffering can also be explained as it being a necessary evil so that a greater good may result. The nature of our bodies and all animals require material food in order to survive. Thus a lion needs to eat a gazelle, for instance, so that it can live. Now, if God did not want the gazelle to suffer then we couldn’t have the lion, because he couldn’t survive without food.

Now a lion is a good thing. A lion is majestic and a brilliant animal. Thus to not have a lion would be less good than having one. And, if no animals could suffer or die so that others might live then we couldn’t have any animals. Ultimately, we would have no life on earth without something suffering or having to die so that something else can live. It is ingrained into the very fabric of life on earth. Even plants must die so that others might live. They might not feel pain but they still undergo destruction. Insects also rely on plants but so do plants rely on insects that eat other insects. Plants rely on animals suffering and dying for fertilization. Everything is interdependent.

Thus, to not permit this suffering so that others can live would mean life on earth would not be possible in this material world. Now a world that is without life is still good. The moon for instance is good, but it is not as good as the earth with all its life. Therefore it is necessary to have suffering so that the greater good of having life on earth should be possible.

Also, an animal feels pain as a motivator for them to act. Pain acts as a natural deterrent and limitation. Our body tells us when its time to stop an activity that causes us pain. Pain helps animals to survive. Otherwise gazelles may not fear the blow of the lion.

 

[cerad2]

Answer to 1: Is there true love without free will?

Of course there is unless you are saying that there is no free will in heaven and that everyone there is not all lovey dovey with each other.

Answer to 2: God alone is perfect.

So we won’t be perfect in heaven? That is kind of sad. And I do sort of wonder why a perfect being would drown almost the entire human population. Oops.

Answer to 3: It truly is a tragedy when children suffer and die. But considering that there is evil in this world, maybe God is actually sparing them from the suffering and temptation that they would face later in life.

As mentioned before, this makes abortion a really good thing. Difficult to sin before you are even born. And it’s one reason that Christians in general and Catholics in particular are so fundamentally scary. Having a core doctrine that states its better for kids to die than to live.

Answer to 4: God makes it rain on the good and the bad.

Texas could use some of that rain. Maybe they need more tax payer funded prayer groups. And needless to say, no one dies in heaven and the population is steadily growing. At least in theory.

 

[tonyrey]

• Is there true love without free will?*

Your concept of love is defective!

God alone is perfect.

So we won’t be perfect in heaven?

Relatively perfect.

3: It truly is a tragedy when children suffer and die. But considering that there is evil in this world, maybe God is actually sparing them from the suffering and temptation that they would face later in life.

As mentioned before, this makes abortion a really good thing.

Even if you had been one of the victims?

Difficult to sin before you are even born. And it’s one reason that Christians in general and Catholics in particular are so fundamentally scary. Having a core doctrine that states its better for kids to die than to live.

That’s your distortion of Catholic belief…

4: God makes it rain on the good and the bad.

                            Texas could use some of that rain.  Maybe they need more tax payer  funded prayer groups.  And needless to say, no one dies in heaven and  the population is steadily growing.  At least in theory.

You obviously prefer all life to become extinct - which is in keeping with your jaundiced outlook! :yukonjoe:

 

[Kismetji]

It seems to me that the material by its very nature brings evil with it. Nature itself is undeniably adversarial. So, to be born into this world is to accept evil and suffering.

 

[tonyrey]

It seems to me that the material by its very nature brings evil with it. Nature itself is undeniably adversarial. So, to be born into this world is to accept evil and suffering.

You are right although matter is not evil as the Manichees believed. It is the substratum of life but also the arena of “the thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to…”

 

[Kismetji]

You are right although matter is not evil as the Manichees believed. It is the substratum of life but also the arena of “the thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to…”

Not evil…just categorically flawed.

I think life is fine and well apart from the physical. Look at the angels.