simply Christian

[pneuma07]

A large and ever growing number of christian brothers, prefer giving only “Christian” as religious self-identification.
No denomination, no further specification whatsoever.
This can be observed on this forum too.

I’d like to get a collective exploration of the roots, meaning and perspective of this remarkable trend. By those brothers themselves and by everybody else.

No doubt this appears a development related to contemporary Protestantism. Among several other things, nevertheless,
I wonder whether in the long run that will have to be regarded as a movement within protestantism, or a movement from, out of Protestantism, at least as traditionally perceived.

We see many of those brothers rejecting any belonging to Protestantism. Some do come from denominations traditionally objecting to being seen as protestant, but many do not. Now, that could lead us to reflect on what Protestantism is and has been, but that would be probably too large an issue here.

Anyway many christian brothers whose parents or grandparents used to see themselves as “naturally” protestant simply say something like " I do not protest at all. I follow Christ". Is it that the term “protestant” is not perceived as appealing any more ? Is it that five centuries are considered enough for a Protest ?

Or, those brothers feel likely so far removed from the Catholic Church that they do not feel or maybe reject the objective link the concept and history of Protestantism keeps implicitly with Her.

Or is it a new “protest” in itself, this time maybe against the
number of ever-splitting denominations or something else ?
( Hoping nobody among “simply christian” believers means other people, or Churches are not christian if they differ from themselves ).

Maybe, every “simply christian” has his/her own mix of explicit or implicit motivations, yet a general picture, if possible at all, would be very interesting.

I wonder whether it can be reasonably supposed that we are
seeing the rise of something like a post-protestant Christianity.
Can the concept of “Post-protestantism” have any merit ?

Thanks in advance for any witness or opinion.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

May be a simple Christian does no want to associate with the Catholics as well.

Thanks

 

[AnAtheist]

Anyway many christian brothers whose parents or grandparents used to see themselves as “naturally” protestant simply say something like " I do not protest at all. I follow Christ". Is it that the term “protestant” is not perceived as appealing any more ? Is it that five centuries are considered enough for a Protest ?

Doesn’t anybody read a history book from time to time?
The term “protestant” was brought up after the Reichstag in Speyer 1529 where some German nobles supporting Martin Luther and the reformation protested against a decision of the emperor Karl V. who wanted to revoke some rights regarding religious freedom granted in 1526.
The term has nothing to do with protesting against the Church or the Pope.

 

[justinthemartyr]

protesters, protesting against the protesters of the protesters of the pro…and so on.

There was only one church Christ established, and it was called to be one by the one who established it. everything else is but protestant.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

This trend was started by the Restoration Movement of Stone - Campbell. A person using “simply Christian” is likely a Church of Christ or Disciples of Christ person or is simply an uninformed believer.

 

[heisenburg]

Simply Christian… or Just a Christian is a useless nomenclature often used in a prideful way…

This is because Just a Christian can mean so many things to so many people… If you asked a Lutheran what Just a Christians means, they will give you one answer, but if you ask an AoG member the same thing, you will get a completely different answer.

The implied meaning is that a “Just a Christian” is better than any denomination because that means the “Just a Christian” is only looking at God and the Bible, with very little guidance, for their answers and thinking their answers are right because “The Holy Spirit will guide them”.

And then you have a church of one that doesn’t agree with any other church of one.

What is even funnier, many “Just a Christians” think they have the power to infallibly interpret scripture on their own, (or at least get a significant portion right) yet rebuke that any Denomination, especially the CC can.

If you tell me you are “Just a Christian”, I have no idea what you believe…

And that is why “Just a Christian” is a meaningless, bordering on sinful statement

In Christ

 

[pneuma07]

Hi

May be a simple Christian does no want to associate with the Catholics as well.

Thanks

That goes without saying, if we agree that this trend is within or originating from Protestantism.

 

[Deacon110]

A large and ever growing number of christian brothers, prefer giving only “Christian” as religious self-identification.
No denomination, no further specification whatsoever.
This can be observed on this forum too.

I’d like to get a collective exploration of the roots, meaning and perspective of this remarkable trend. By those brothers themselves and by everybody else.

No doubt this appears a development related to contemporary Protestantism. Among several other things, nevertheless,
I wonder whether in the long run that will have to be regarded as a movement within protestantism, or a movement from, out of Protestantism, at least as traditionally perceived.

We see many of those brothers rejecting any belonging to Protestantism. Some do come from denominations traditionally objecting to being seen as protestant, but many do not. Now, that could lead us to reflect on what Protestantism is and has been, but that would be probably too large an issue here.

Anyway many christian brothers whose parents or grandparents used to see themselves as “naturally” protestant simply say something like " I do not protest at all. I follow Christ". Is it that the term “protestant” is not perceived as appealing any more ? Is it that five centuries are considered enough for a Protest ?

Or, those brothers feel likely so far removed from the Catholic Church that they do not feel or maybe reject the objective link the concept and history of Protestantism keeps implicitly with Her.

Or is it a new “protest” in itself, this time maybe against the
number of ever-splitting denominations or something else ?
( Hoping nobody among “simply christian” believers means other people, or Churches are not christian if they differ from themselves ).

Maybe, every “simply christian” has his/her own mix of explicit or implicit motivations, yet a general picture, if possible at all, would be very interesting.

I wonder whether it can be reasonably supposed that we are
seeing the rise of something like a post-protestant Christianity.
Can the concept of “Post-protestantism” have any merit ?

Thanks in advance for any witness or opinion.

I consider myself a generic Christian because I don’t want to associate with any particular denomination. I find that all denominations have something in their doctrine that seems to somehow preclude other denominations from being saved. Rather than associate with a denomiation that has doctrine I honestly can’t agree with I would rather just focus on the Bible and try to identify with what Christ is asking us to do.

I think the biggest message we miss is that Jesus makes a simple request to us which is to believe. I agree with Baptism because Jesus asks us to be Baptized, I also obviously believe in honoring the Lord’s Supper each week and sometimes wonder why it’s not everyday.

But I’m finding that so many denominations try to actually speak for GOD by making very specific interpretations in their doctrine. Rather than try to do this which is the finite trying to interpret the infinite, I would rather focus squarely on Jesus and place my complete faith and trust in HIM and GOD. Jesus makes it very clear in John 3:16 as well as across the entire NT that we are to believe in HIM.

If some folks feel that being part of the Methodist church gets them closer to GOD spiritually then so be it. I would never tell someone that they shouldn’t be this or that denomination, or that they are not saved because of this or that denomination. GOD knows what’s in our hearts and I believe he guides us to those places where we can flourish the most spiritually.

I’ve personally found that when you identify yourself as a particular denomination the question that usually follows is “oh so you believe this?” Usually the THIS has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus. I’m pretty clear that Jesus is my Savior and when someone asks “how about the rapture, or how about the real presence?”, I always like to say I have trust that GOD will handle things the way HE wants. My opinion really doesn’t matter because it probably isn’t right and if it is it’s probably not 100% right. I don’t think any denomination is 100% right. I think we all strive to get closer to GOD and when we focus too much on doctrine we lose sight of Jesus. Is this a new type of protest?? I don’t know. I’d like to think of it as let’s please stop fighting because the battle as a wise man once said is “out there”.

There are 6 billion people in the world and only 2 billion Christians. That’s 66.6% of the world that just isn’t getting it when it comes to Jesus. Rather than split hairs over meaningless doctrine I would rather unite and proclaim the Gospel of Jesus. If the unbeliever becomes RC, Methodist, Presbyterian, or whatever it doesn’t matter. It’s more important that they become a Christian

PEACE

 

[anthony022071]

"The Article, In one Holy Catholic Church,’ on which, though one might say many things, we will speak but briefly. It is called Catholic then because it extends over all the world, from one end of the earth to the other; and because it teaches universally and completely one and all the doctrines which ought to come to men’s knowledge, concerning things both visible and invisible, heavenly and earthly… for this cause the Faith has securely delivered to thee now the Article, And in one Holy Catholic Church;’ that thou mayest avoid their wretched meetings, and ever abide with the Holy Church Catholic in which thou wast regenerated. And if ever thou art sojourning in cities, inquire not simply where the Lord’s House is (for the other sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens houses of the Lord), nor merely where the Church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of this Holy Church, the mother of us all, which is the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-begotten Son of God.” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 18:23,26 (A.D. 350).

“We must hold to the Christian religion and to communication in her Church, which is Catholic and which is called Catholic not only by her own members but even by all her enemies. For when heretics or the adherents of schisms talk about her, not among themselves but with strangers, willy-nilly they call her nothing else but Catholic. For they will not be understood unless they distinguish her by this name which the whole world employs in her regard.” Augustine, The True Religion, 7:12 (A.D. 390).

“Inasmuch, I repeat, as this is the case, we believe also in the Holy Church, [intending thereby] assuredly the Catholic. For both heretics and schismatics style their congregations churches. But heretics, in holding false opinions regarding God, do injury to the faith itself; while schismatics, on the other hand, in wicked separations break off from brotherly charity, although they may believe just what we believe. Wherefore neither do the heretics belong to the Church catholic, which loves God; nor do the schismatics form a part of the same.” Augustine, On Faith and Creed, 10:21 (A.D. 393).

 

[anthony022071]

St. Cyprian:

“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ He says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatever things you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed also in heaven.’ (Matthew 16:18-19) And again He says to him after His resurrection: ‘Feed my sheep.’ (John 21:17) On him He builds the Church, and to him He gives the command to feed the sheep; and although He assigns a like power to all the Apostles, yet He founded a single chair, and He established by His own authority a source and intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was; but a primacy is given to Peter, where by it is made clear that there is but one Church and one Chair. So too, all are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the Apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can still be confident that he is in the Church?”(St. Cyprian, On the unity of the Catholic Church, 4, 246 A.D.)

“They alone have remained outside [the Church] who, were they within, would have to be ejected…There [in John 6:68-69] speaks Peter, upon whom the Church would be built, teaching in the name of the Church and showing that even if a stubborn and proud multitude withdraws because it does not wish to obey, yet the Church does not withdraw from Christ. The people joined to the priest, the flock clinging to their shepherd in the Church. You ought to know, then, that the bishop is in the Church and the Church in the bishops, and if someone is not with the bishop, he is not in the Church. They vainly flatter themselves who creep up, not having peace with the priest of God, believing that they are secretly in communion with certain individuals. The Church, which is one and Catholic is not split or divided, but is indeed united and joined by the cement of priests who adhere to one another.” (St. Cyprian of Cathage, Letters 66 (67): 8, 254 A.D.)

 

[strngrnrth]

I am living in a place where Christians are a minority. We are on the defensive culturally. The dominant religion seems to be pantheism of various kinds. I have been verbally attacked as if I were committing a terrible crime by denying the divinity of everyone and everything. People look at me with pity and perplexity and walk up and without prelude launch into a long speech advocating Buddhism, paganism etc. When I try to reply with reasoned argument, they often start screaming at me.
You get the idea.
When I call myself a Christian it is because to me being Christian is what sets me apart from the crowd. We’re all sisters and brothers in Christ. It’s a statement of unity.

 

[pneuma07]

Doesn’t anybody read a history book from time to time?
The term “protestant” was brought up after the Reichstag in Speyer 1529 where some German nobles supporting Martin Luther and the reformation protested against a decision of the emperor Karl V. who wanted to revoke some rights regarding religious freedom granted in 1526.
The term has nothing to do with protesting against the Church or the Pope.

Well, technically in 1529 the lutherans “protested” against a decision of the Reichstag (Diet) to the emperor.
While being aware of the particular historic root of the term, what matters here to me is its perception.
In the XVI century onwards it was attributed AND rapidly adopted to/by the denominations issues of the Reformation. Its being widely accepted as self-description of the whole movement speaks for it being constantly perceived - from within as well as
from outside - as a basically oppositional entity.

Those who nowadays stop liking being called “protestants” do not do so because they do not care any longer about the 1529 Speyer decision ( which most of them, as their parents and as most catholics, probably ignore). They want rather, probably, among other things, to go out from that almost half-millenial oppositional self-perception.

 

[AnAtheist]

In the XVI century onwards it was attributed AND rapidly adopted to/by the denominations issues of the Reformation. Its being widely accepted as self-description of the whole movement speaks for it being constantly perceived - from within as well as from outside - as a basically oppositional entity.

Yes, and the funny thing is, in Germany where the term was invented almost nobody calls or called himself a protestant but “evangelisch” (== evangelic, not to be confused with evangelical).

 

[jmcrae]

I consider myself a generic Christian because I don’t want to associate with any particular denomination. I find that all denominations have something in their doctrine that seems to somehow preclude other denominations from being saved. Rather than associate with a denomiation that has doctrine I honestly can’t agree with I would rather just focus on the Bible and try to identify with what Christ is asking us to do.

I think the biggest message we miss is that Jesus makes a simple request to us which is to believe. I agree with Baptism because Jesus asks us to be Baptized, I also obviously believe in honoring the Lord’s Supper each week and sometimes wonder why it’s not everyday.

In the Catholic Church, it is every day.

 

[Non_Serviam]

I wonder whether it can be reasonably supposed that we are
seeing the rise of something like a post-protestant Christianity.
Can the concept of “Post-protestantism” have any merit ?

Thanks in advance for any witness or opinion.

I believe that in many cases it is simply the fact that as Catholicism has declined on the world’s political stage, many believers no longer feel any compulsion to define their faith in terms of Catholicism. The Pope is no longer sparring with Kings and Emperors and countries are no longer being placed under an interdict so many don’t see Catholicism as having an impact on their life, let alone their personal faith. In countries where there was significant historical conflict around religion, such as Germany or England, this tendency toward generic self-identification doesn’t seem to be occurring with the same frequency.

In addition, a refocusing on what many feel to be core elements of Christianity (à la Mere Christianity, Alpha course, etc) through para-church organizations and popular Christian culture has removed the desire for many individuals to identify with denominational distinctives. Reading George Barna on the topic would likely give you more insight than I could.

Hope this helps!

 

[justinthemartyr]

I consider myself a generic Christian because I don’t want to associate with any particular denomination. I find that all denominations have something in their doctrine that seems to somehow preclude other denominations from being saved. Rather than associate with a denomiation that has doctrine I honestly can’t agree with I would rather just focus on the Bible and try to identify with what Christ is asking us to do.

I think the biggest message we miss is that Jesus makes a simple request to us which is to believe. I agree with Baptism because Jesus asks us to be Baptized, I also obviously believe in honoring the Lord’s Supper each week and sometimes wonder why it’s not everyday.

But I’m finding that so many denominations try to actually speak for GOD by making very specific interpretations in their doctrine. Rather than try to do this which is the finite trying to interpret the infinite, I would rather focus squarely on Jesus and place my complete faith and trust in HIM and GOD. Jesus makes it very clear in John 3:16 as well as across the entire NT that we are to believe in HIM.

If some folks feel that being part of the Methodist church gets them closer to GOD spiritually then so be it. I would never tell someone that they shouldn’t be this or that denomination, or that they are not saved because of this or that denomination. GOD knows what’s in our hearts and I believe he guides us to those places where we can flourish the most spiritually.

I’ve personally found that when you identify yourself as a particular denomination the question that usually follows is “oh so you believe this?” Usually the THIS has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus. I’m pretty clear that Jesus is my Savior and when someone asks “how about the rapture, or how about the real presence?”, I always like to say I have trust that GOD will handle things the way HE wants. My opinion really doesn’t matter because it probably isn’t right and if it is it’s probably not 100% right. I don’t think any denomination is 100% right. I think we all strive to get closer to GOD and when we focus too much on doctrine we lose sight of Jesus. Is this a new type of protest?? I don’t know. I’d like to think of it as let’s please stop fighting because the battle as a wise man once said is “out there”.

There are 6 billion people in the world and only 2 billion Christians. That’s 66.6% of the world that just isn’t getting it when it comes to Jesus. Rather than split hairs over meaningless doctrine I would rather unite and proclaim the Gospel of Jesus. If the unbeliever becomes RC, Methodist, Presbyterian, or whatever it doesn’t matter. It’s more important that they become a Christian

PEACE

There would certainly be far more Christians if the church were still one as it was in the first 1500 years. The unity was the attraction. the false doctrine of sola scriptura has certainly made this nearly impossible. Do not forget the actual church which Christ established and used to not only write the NT but also canonize the entire Bible.

 

[pneuma07]

Yes, and the funny thing is, in Germany where the term was invented almost nobody calls or called himself a protestant but “evangelisch” (== evangelic, not to be confused with evangelical).

We often find one of at least two other descriptive terms besides protestant: evangelic or reformed. But they got to identify, in particular the second one, more definite branches within protestantism, than the whole of it. In swiss cantons , as you
warscheinlich know, both are used together: evangelic reformed church.

 

[Syele]

I think my profile here says “Christian”

I grew up non-denominational so I have no denomination to claim really. I attend an Assembly of God right now, but I don’t really think of it as my denomination. It is just the best church that is available for me to attend atm.

For the sake of making it easier for people to know what I believe, I put “Arminian Christian” for awhile. This was not because I worship Jacobus Arminius or because I am a member of some church called Arminian or because Arminius founded some separate religion. Yet it led to weird questions like that. Long, very weird conversations that got me nowhere ensued.

I decided CAF wasn’t ready for my distinction meant to clarify. So I unclarified(Yes, I just made up the word unclarified).

 

[paarsurrey]

the actual church which Christ established

Hi

Jesus ministry was , I think, for three years in Jerusalem, the account of which is only unclearly gathered from the NTBible, as he did not write any Gosple himsel and he also did not dictate any. The anonymous Gosples were only named afterwards, as I know.

Jesus ministry was much longer ( he died at the age of 120 years according on one tradition) when he migrated to Kashmir after the event of Crucifixion; to know about it and his concepts one may read a book from the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908:
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html

I love Jesus and Mary.

Thanks

 

[pneuma07]

I consider myself a generic Christian because I don’t want to associate with any particular denomination. I find that all denominations have something in their doctrine that seems to somehow preclude other denominations from being saved. Rather than associate with a denomiation that has doctrine I honestly can’t agree with I would rather just focus on the Bible and try to identify with what Christ is asking us to do.

I think the biggest message we miss is that Jesus makes a simple request to us which is to believe. I agree with Baptism because Jesus asks us to be Baptized, I also obviously believe in honoring the Lord’s Supper each week and sometimes wonder why it’s not everyday.

I’ve personally found that when you identify yourself as a particular denomination the question that usually follows is “oh so you believe this?” Usually the THIS has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.

I’d like to think of it as let’s please stop fighting because the battle as a wise man once said is “out there”.

There are 6 billion people in the world and only 2 billion Christians. That’s 66.6% of the world that just isn’t getting it when it comes to Jesus. Rather than split hairs over meaningless doctrine I would rather unite and proclaim the Gospel of Jesus. If the unbeliever becomes RC, Methodist, Presbyterian, or whatever it doesn’t matter. It’s more important that they become a Christian

PEACE

Hi Deacon 110 !

Thanks for your witness.

What was the religious background of your family ?

I mind you have a great point inviting everybody to spend more effort in the mission ad gentes.
In the whole I see nevertheless some problems in your exposition. If I am not mistaken you consider the existence of a number of different denominations and any following form of “confessionalism” as intrinsically bad. So you want to remain
out of any of them. While agreeing on the negative perception of the visible division, I cannot see how I, or all of us, can overcome or better this condition by remaining by myself.

I’d suspect that in doing so I am de facto founding the new
denomination of me and me. ( I shouldn’t say a new church since a one-person church sounds an oxymoron to me).
That can hardly stop the division within Christianity.

I would rather just focus on the Bible and try to identify with what Christ is asking us to do..
OK. But that is what so many other denominations and non-denominational believers proclaim they do. And precisely this way, division follows division, splitting follows splitting.

Even through the idea of a “minimalist” statement of faith, as you appear to propose, that could not be avoided. Since it is likely two honest believers reading each his/her own Bible would come up with different visions of what has to go into that minimalist statement, and why, and of what is really essential and what is “meaningless”.

About practice, which church, if any, do you attend and with whom do you feel in communion ?