Sin and contrition

[Vera_Ljuba]

I am not sure which forum is best suited for this question, so if it does not belong here, please move it to the proper place.

The question is about sin and contrition. I would like to know just what sins do you (or others) commit that need to be confessed and which need absolution. Being an atheist I don’t have to worry about sins. All I have to worry about crimes and misdemeanors. But or course I do not commit any serious crimes. Minor infractions, sure, like driving somewhat faster than the stipulated speed limits. But I never committed anything that would be considered as a serious crime. And never intend to.

But if I am not mistaken, you (in general) keep on committing sins, sometimes even “mortal” sins. What are those and why do you commit them? I would think that if you know that you should not commit a sinful act, and you believe that God constantly “monitors” all your thoughts and actions (Big Brother is watching you!), you would not commit serious sins. Just like I would not do anything unlawful if I knew that I am being monitored by the police, no matter what the temptation might be.

This question is linked to the idea of free will. If you have a strong temptation to do something “sinful”, then you should be able to resist, IF your will is “free” enough. But if you are unable to resist some temptation, you should not be judged harshly. After all you should not be judged if you fail to lift a stone because you are physically too weak to lift it.

So what are those sins you keep committing? And why?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I am not sure which forum is best suited for this question, so if it does not belong here, please move it to the proper place.

The question is about sin and contrition. I would like to know just what sins do you (or others) commit that need to be confessed and which need absolution. Being an atheist I don’t have to worry about sins. All I have to worry about crimes and misdemeanors. But or course I do not commit any serious crimes. Minor infractions, sure, like driving somewhat faster than the stipulated speed limits. But I never committed anything that would be considered as a serious crime. And never intend to.

But if I am not mistaken, you (in general) keep on committing sins, sometimes even “mortal” sins. What are those and why do you commit them? I would think that if you know that you should not commit a sinful act, and you believe that God constantly “monitors” all your thoughts and actions (Big Brother is watching you!), you would not commit serious sins. Just like I would not do anything unlawful if I knew that I am being monitored by the police, no matter what the temptation might be.

This question is linked to the idea of free will. If you have a strong temptation to do something “sinful”, then you should be able to resist, IF your will is “free” enough. But if you are unable to resist some temptation, you should not be judged harshly. After all you should not be judged if you fail to lift a stone because you are physically too weak to lift it.

So what are those sins you keep committing? And why?

Um, you don’t have any weaknesses? Any character flaws? Any areas of your self that you think need improving?

Do you ever think disparagingly of another? Do you get impatient? Sarcastic? Angry? Are you timid? Reckless? Do you indulge in too much alcohol, too much food? Do you think poorly of others when they don’t meet your approval?

Are you vain? Think too much of appearance? Are you easily swayed? Are you stubborn? Do you have a foul mouth? Are you ever lazy? Contemptuous? Dismissive? Surly? Indifferent?

Do you always do your best at work? Never surf the net there, waste time, fool around? Do you let yourself get ‘aroused’? "Go with the crowd’ rather than think for yourself? Neglect your family and friends? “Pilfer’ work supplies? Go with ‘little white lies’ to make your life easier? “Inflate’ your ego? Deflate others? Do you like to gossip and point fingers behind people’s backs? Always tend to think ‘the worst’? Feel a little ‘schaudenfreude’ when you think somebody ‘deserves’ what they get? Are you envious of others? Do you take credit for every good thing you do and then attempt to pass off any ‘bad’ as 'somebody else’s fault? (especially parents) Do you speak kindly to those who annoy or bore you? Do you honestly give of yourself as much as possible, or do you hold back and try to do the least you can, while patting yourself on the back for how ‘wonderful’ you are to do anything at all (“I’m not like others, I’m really good, and nobody is ‘forcing’ me to do so, that’s just the way that I am. Wonderful.”) Do you fill your mind with positive and uplifting and beautiful thoughts, or is it 'Garbage in, Garbage out?” Do you laugh at others, especially those whose politics offend you? Do you like to argue in order to help others learn, or to show off that 'you’re right”?

Now that’s just a start. I freely admit I have been, and am, guilty of any and all the above. Those I consider sins, sins against God and against my fellow humans. And all those flaws will lead to greater and greater ones if I don’t work like the dickens to erase them. Worse yet, and believe me, I’ve been there, is the tendency to start thinking that because I don’t commit the ‘big’ sins like murder and fornication and grand theft auto, is that I’m a pretty wonderful person. . .and those petty things above are either the fault of people who set me off unfairly, or ‘not that big an issue anyway’. Well, they are. Presumption is one really big old sin, and presuming that I’m God’s gift to humanity just because I ‘don’t do big evil sins’, while meanwhile I am unrepentant of the above, and zillions more, is a huge temptation. So I think we would do well to get rid of the idea that people are only sinners IF they do huge ginormous sins (and of course, we all know that even if we do those, they might not really even be mortal sins if we didn’t really KNOW it, or we were forced into it by evil society, or were drunk or whatever ), and realize that we are so comfortable and complacent in our many little sins that we’re in danger of thinking we aren’t sinful at all!

 

[Jared2914]

Catholics believe some sins are serious and others are more minor. Minor sins are called venial, and serious sins are called mortal. We believe mortal sins separate a person from God so seriously that if they died, they would be going to hell. Minor sins damage our relationship with God but do not separate us from God. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (which you can read online) describes the most common sins and whether they are venial or mortal sins. In the Catechism they mortal sins are sometimes described as grave or serious sins. They are just different names for the same thing.

As far as why Catholics commit sins, we believe in original sin, which was caused by Adam and Eve disobeying God. We also believe that all humans descended from Adam and Eve. Because of that first sin, all future generations were afflicted with original sin. The effect of this sin was concupiscence, a fancy name for the weakened state humanity is stuck with because of original sin. This weakened state makes it hard for people to resist sin because our physical body desires them. Our spirit desires holiness, but our body desires sin. It’s a constant battle within between good and evil.

We still have free will but also have that constant negative influence within us. We might do the right thing 90% of the time, but every once in a while we will slip-up. In addition, there are habits or addictions. Many times people can develop these as a child before the age of reason or before they are Catholic, but the habit or addiction still persists in adulthood or after conversion. They have a compulsion to commit certain sins, making the right decision hard.

 

[bardegaulois]

Jared answers this question very well. However, if you really want to go into depth with this, Vera, I might suggest looking at the Supplement to the Third Part of St Thomas Aquinas’s Summa Theologica, the first five questions of which deal specifically with contrition. This will likely give you the fullest possible answer to the questions you have.

Understand while reading that Thomism, though quite widespread, is only one of the theological systems used in the Church and has its strengths and weaknesses. Nonetheless, the subject of contrition is one of those where it has had the most effect on the general doctrine of the Catholic Church, and I’d highly recommend reading through it if you wish to learn more about this.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

Thank you for your answers.

TantumErgo listed such a long list of questions, that I cannot answer all of them individually. Suffice it to say that I am far from perfect and never wanted to be. The funny thing is that I have been mistakenly thought to be a very devout Christian in real life, due to my relationship to others. When I revealed that I am an atheist, this “confession” was usually met with incredulity. I try to live my life according to my best standards and never do things that go against them. Why would I? But that is irrelevant here on this board.

The point is that listing all those faults by TantumErgo looks like is scrupulosity to me. Is scrupulosity not a mild form of mental disorder? To worry about irrelevant things? If those are “sins”, I cannot understand how can anyone lead a healthy life by accumulating them for the confessional booth and not become a nervous wreck by contemplating them. But the questions were informative - so those are the “sins” you commit and worry about. Pretty sad.

As for Jared’s contribution, of course I am aware of the concept of original sin, even if I reject it. The constant “fight” between good and evil is something I cannot understand. Don’t people have the strength to resist what they consider “evil”? If they don’t, then there is no such thing as “mortal” sin. After all it requires “full consent” (among the other requirements). And if your “weak flesh” overcomes your “spirit”, then you have no “full” consent.

 

[Bookcat]

God is not “Big Brother”…

And this is not really a question to ask people.

The question “what are your sins” etc sounds rather like one that persons should* not *ask of someone outside of confession or spiritual direction.

**So not really a thread to continue. **

Yes a Christian living in grace…in Christ has yes the grace to avoid mortal sins.

Temptation may though overcome them and they give in (via weakened will via fallen nature, the world, the Devil…). It can happen. Such is not an excuse -one is not to fall, but to respond to grace and avoid the near occasion etc and grow instead in virtue.

If one should fall into a mortal sin - yes one would repent and confess it and be returned by Confession to the life of Grace and resolve yes against any mortal sin in the future. Jesus is the Good Shepherd.

Do we have daily sins? What are called venial sins? Sure they happen. One repents of them daily in the Our Father etc and work on being better. Life is full of lots of various aspects and one such venial sins will happen - be they faults of surpise or weakness etc. They are not though the focus of Christian life. And do not confuse a delicate conscience and striving for holiness for struggling with scrupulosity.

The emphasis in the Christian Life is not sin but life.

We live by faith and hope and love…life…indeed true life in Jesus Christ!

 

[Irishmom2]

I am not sure which forum is best suited for this question, so if it does not belong here, please move it to the proper place.

The question is about sin and contrition. I would like to know just what sins do you (or others) commit that need to be confessed and which need absolution. Being an atheist I don’t have to worry about sins. All I have to worry about crimes and misdemeanors. But or course I do not commit any serious crimes. Minor infractions, sure, like driving somewhat faster than the stipulated speed limits. But I never committed anything that would be considered as a serious crime. And never intend to.

But if I am not mistaken, you (in general) keep on committing sins, sometimes even “mortal” sins. What are those and why do you commit them? I would think that if you know that you should not commit a sinful act, and you believe that God constantly “monitors” all your thoughts and actions (Big Brother is watching you!), you would not commit serious sins. Just like I would not do anything unlawful if I knew that I am being monitored by the police, no matter what the temptation might be.

This question is linked to the idea of free will. If you have a strong temptation to do something “sinful”, then you should be able to resist, IF your will is “free” enough. But if you are unable to resist some temptation, you should not be judged harshly. After all you should not be judged if you fail to lift a stone because you are physically too weak to lift it.

So what are those sins you keep committing? And why?

It’s none of your business what sins anyone commits.
I am not sure why you are even posting this thread other than to look down your nose at Catholics.

You have already told us what a wonderful Christian people mistake you for, and then brushed off any thoughtful responses you have received here, so once again, what is the purpose of this thread, or any of your threads? You are not here to learn, (you don’t wish to be perfect, as if that is ever possible) but to criticize what Catholics believe.

 

[pianistclare]

Thank you for your answers.

TantumErgo listed such a long list of questions, that I cannot answer all of them individually. Suffice it to say that I am far from perfect and never wanted to be. The funny thing is that I have been mistakenly thought to be a very devout Christian in real life, due to my relationship to others. When I revealed that I am an atheist, this “confession” was usually met with incredulity. I try to live my life according to my best standards and never do things that go against them. Why would I? But that is irrelevant here on this board.
**
The point is that listing all those faults by TantumErgo looks like is scrupulosity to me.** Is scrupulosity not a mild form of mental disorder? To worry about irrelevant things? If those are “sins”, I cannot understand how can anyone lead a healthy life by accumulating them for the confessional booth and not become a nervous wreck by contemplating them. But the questions were informative - so those are the “sins” you commit and worry about. Pretty sad.

As for Jared’s contribution, of course I am aware of the concept of original sin, even if I reject it. The constant “fight” between good and evil is something I cannot understand. Don’t people have the strength to resist what they consider “evil”? If they don’t, then there is no such thing as “mortal” sin. After all it requires “full consent” (among the other requirements). And if your “weak flesh” overcomes your “spirit”, then you have no “full” consent.

She doesn’t look or sound scrupulous ot me at all. I never would have thought that about her.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

And this is not really a question to ask people.

The question “what are your sins” etc sounds rather like one that persons should* not *ask of someone outside of confession or spiritual direction.

Why not? This is an anonymous environment, an no one is obliged to participate. There is no difference between this question and asking: “what are your favorite books”?

Do we have daily sins? What are called venial sins? Sure they happen.

And that was what I am curious about. What are they? And why do you commit them, knowing that you should not. You cannot “sin” involuntarily. If you stab your toe and instinctively say something “bad”, that is not a sin. If you look at someone and have a fleeting thought about having sex with that person, it is not a “sin”. Fantasizing about it is a different matter - or so I heard. So “sin” must be doing something volitionally that you know you should not do.

It’s none of your business what sins anyone commits.

Then don’t participate.

…brushed off any thoughtful responses you have received here…

I did? All I said was: “thank you for your responses”, and did not badmouth them - unlike YOU.

She doesn’t look or sound scrupulous ot me at all. I never would have thought that about her.

Our opinions are different. She said: “I freely admit I have been, and am, guilty of any and all the above.” and most of them are truly innocent, irrelevant acts. If that is not scrupulosity, I don’t know what is.

 

[pianistclare]

Why not? This is an anonymous environment, an no one is obliged to participate. There is no difference between this question and asking: “what are your favorite books”?

And that was what I am curious about. What are they? And why do you commit them, knowing that you should not. You cannot “sin” involuntarily. If you stab your toe and instinctively say something “bad”, that is not a sin. If you look at someone and have a fleeting thought about having sex with that person, it is not a “sin”. Fantasizing about it is a different matter - or so I heard. So “sin” must be doing something volitionally that you know you should not do.

Then don’t participate.

I did? All I said was: “thank you for your responses”, and did not badmouth them - unlike YOU.

Our opinions are different. She said: “I freely admit I have been, and am, guilty of any and all the above.” and most of them are truly innocent, irrelevant acts. If that is not scrupulosity, I don’t know what is.

She was reacting to what YOU wrote. I’m out.

 

[Bookcat]

Why not? This is an anonymous environment, an no one is obliged to participate. There is no difference between this question and asking: “what are your favorite books”?

And that was what I am curious about. What are they? And why do you commit them, knowing that you should not.

Because this is not the sort of question one asks another.

This is the “moral theology” section.

If you would like to discuss Catholic moral theology feel free.

 

[Bookcat]

If that is not scrupulosity, I don’t know what is.

Ok then you do not know what scrupulosity is.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

Because this is not the sort of question one asks another.

This is the “moral theology” section.

If you would like to discuss Catholic moral theology feel free.

In the OP I already asked the mods to move the post if it is inappropriate for the forum. Besides, “moral theology” deals with sins.

 

[Bookcat]

In the OP I already asked the mods to move the post if it is inappropriate for the forum. Besides, “moral theology” deals with sins.

Yes.

But the forum is not the place to ask others to confess their sins - that is well - nowhere accept confession to a Priest.

And I believe the theology question has been answered.

 

[frobert]

The constant “fight” between good and evil is something I cannot understand. Don’t people have the strength to resist what they consider “evil”?

Perhaps the question should be re-framed to “what do people here do to break the ‘sin, confession, forgiveness’ cycle”

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

Ok then you do not know what scrupulosity is.

I said: “it looks like scrupulosity to me”. Where does one’s anxiety for committing “sinful” acts reach the level OCD? To worry about insignificant acts and being afraid of eternal damnation for them is definitely unhealthy. I see many poor teenagers who suffer for putting their perfectly normal and natural urges into practice.

But the forum is not the place to ask others to confess their sins - that is well - nowhere accept confession to a Priest.

It is not “confession” to talk about something. And I will reiterate: “No one is obliged to participate”. I am simply curious what kinds of deeds do people consider sinful. And why do they commit them, if they consider them sinful.

 

[Bookcat]

Perhaps the question sould be reframed to “what do people here do to break the ‘sin, confession, forgiveness’ cycle”

The person notes they are an atheist…they are not seeking spiritual advice and I do not see a reason really to discuss such personal aspects here.

 

[frobert]

The person notes they are an atheist…they are not seeking spiritual advice and I do not see a reason really to discuss such personal aspects here.

I did not mean the question as, seeking spiritual advice, but more as an ethical one.

 

[Bookcat]

I did not mean the question as, seeking spiritual advice, but more as an ethical one.

The *moral theology *question has been answered.

No reason for people to start discussing such private matters with an atheist questioner.

 

[Bookcat]

I said: “it looks like scrupulosity to me”. Where does one’s anxiety for committing “sinful” acts reach the level OCD?

Yes and you further noted that if it is not (and it is not) then you do not know what is.

So I answered you- then you do not know what scrupulosity is.

One should not confuse a delicate conscience of a person striving for perfection even in the little things - to be scrupulosity. And by the way Scruples may be OCD but are not OCD per se.

To worry about insignificant acts and being afraid of eternal damnation for them is definitely unhealthy.

And where did the OP say they were afraid of eternal damnation for such? Where?

I see many poor teenagers who suffer for putting their perfectly normal and natural urges into practice.

Such now is discussing something that was nowhere mentioned in this thread.

So do not know what one is talking about per se.

You mean picking ones nose? Yes if a teen should not suffer for such and need pastoral care if they think picking their nose is a sin.

If it about some grave matter that society is confused about and thinks it just natural to engage in - well that would be something to tell him is grave (like fornication etc).

It is not “confession” to talk about something. And I will reiterate: “No one is obliged to participate”. I am simply curious what kinds of deeds do people consider sinful. And why do they commit them, if they consider them sinful.

Again I will say - this is simply not the kind of question to ask others. Curiosity is not a good reason to ask it. Period.