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gracelife
Guest
Do you believe that confessed sin is simply “covered” by Christ?
OR erased and forgotten?
Why?
OR erased and forgotten?
Why?
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Mt19_26
Guest
Not exactly sure what you are asking. The sin is forgiven.
P
paramedicgirl
Guest
Someone may correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe I read in the catechism that the sin is forgiven and forgotton, though the temporal punishment still applies. I have also read that the devil can no longer use it against you, once it is confessed.
L
Lazerlike42
Guest
The sin is erased.
We know this for several reasons.
One is that St. Paul is always speaking of the believers being sanctified, and being washed. This would indicate that they are being cleaned. If the sins were just covered, they wouldn’t be washed. It’s like if you have a kid who’s been playing in the mud. If you wash him, the mud is erased. If you just cover him, well the mud is still there you just have some sort of covering on him.
Another is that St. John tells us that nothing unclean shall enter into Heaven (Rev. 21:17). If sins are merely covered, we make God a liar, because He must lie and say that something unclean is not. In other words, when we die, God would look at us and know that we have sins. After all, He’s God! He isn’t going to be fooled by some covering. Also, since Christ is God, He sure as heck can’t cover our sins and hide them from Himself! So in order to those whose sins have been covered to enter Heaven, God must lie and say that they are clean when they are not.
We know this for several reasons.
One is that St. Paul is always speaking of the believers being sanctified, and being washed. This would indicate that they are being cleaned. If the sins were just covered, they wouldn’t be washed. It’s like if you have a kid who’s been playing in the mud. If you wash him, the mud is erased. If you just cover him, well the mud is still there you just have some sort of covering on him.
Another is that St. John tells us that nothing unclean shall enter into Heaven (Rev. 21:17). If sins are merely covered, we make God a liar, because He must lie and say that something unclean is not. In other words, when we die, God would look at us and know that we have sins. After all, He’s God! He isn’t going to be fooled by some covering. Also, since Christ is God, He sure as heck can’t cover our sins and hide them from Himself! So in order to those whose sins have been covered to enter Heaven, God must lie and say that they are clean when they are not.
T
Todd_Easton
Guest
Scripture seems to speak of both…
Sins covered:Romans 4:7, quoting Psalm 32:2.
James 5:20.
1 Peter 4:8.
Sins remembered no more:Isaiah 43:25.
Ezekiel 18:21-32.
Ezekiel 33:11-20.
Hebrews 8:12, quoting Jeremiah 31:34.
Hebrews 10:17, quoting Jeremiah 31:34
It is possible that both expressions mean the same thing, that is, things that are covered are not remembered or as it is sometimes said: Out of sight, out of mind.
Z
Zooey
Guest
Methodist thinking is that both are involved: Sin is covered by justification. It is erased by sanctification.
Forgotten–In what sense? If you mean, it is no longer held against us, yes, it is forgotten. It is not clear to me how God could “forget” anything, sin or otherwise. (But that’s part is me, not necessarily Wesley).
Forgotten–In what sense? If you mean, it is no longer held against us, yes, it is forgotten. It is not clear to me how God could “forget” anything, sin or otherwise. (But that’s part is me, not necessarily Wesley).
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Ignatius
Guest
For Catholics, it is erased and washed away in the Sacraments as it says in Scripture.
Since protestants do not have valid sacraments, it can only be covered “as snow covers a dung hill” to quote Luther.
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mercygate
Guest
Heh, heh, Zooey. Will you let me be your sponsor when you start RCIA?
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esr
Guest
I know that the through the sacraments our sins are forgiven; however, we will be judged at our particular judgment and the general judgment. So, what will we be judged upon? Only the sins that we have not yet confessed and paid the temporal punishment for?
M
Madia
Guest
All sins that we have committed either by deed or omission.
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esr
Guest
So, if we are judged upon all of our sins, then they are not erased or forgotten.
M
Madia
Guest
Maybe this link will help:
newadvent.org/cathen/08552a.htm
In particular Chapter III paragraph 5 might help. Where it says “forgiven as well as forgiven sins” they probably meant one of those forgivens to say unforgiven.
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esr
Guest
Thank you Madia. I read the article and it does state that we will be judged upon all of our sins, forgiven and unforgiven. So, to me that implies that while our confessed sins are forgiven, we will still be held accountable for them at the time of judgment. Thus, our sins are not erased or forgotten because obviously they have to be remembered to in order to pass judgment. However, I still do not understand how this compares to Sacred Scripture. As a previous poster noted several places in Sacred Scripture that state that our sins, once forgiven, are remembered no more (specifically Heb.8:12, quoting Jeremiah 31:34). Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
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Madia
Guest
Maybe “remembered no more” means that they will not be held against us. Some of the exact meaning may be lost in the translation from the original languages into English.
For example, while we will be held accountable for our past sins, once forgiven they will not be a barrier to our eternal reward.
Thinks of a family member who broke themselves off from the family completely but later repented and was taken back. Now, the person who broke themselves off from the family has wounded their relationship with their family yet they remain a part
of it. The exent of that person’s crimes against their family and their works toward the good of their family will ultimatley determine their place in their family. Once the family forgave that
person then that person is part of the family again yet the person’s place in the family is still yet to be determined.
Now, it seems reasonable that forgiven sins will not keep us out of
God’s family yet they will still be taken into account on our place in His family.
Maybe a book on eschatology such as this will help you with your questions:
ewtn.com/vcatalogue/pages/itemdetail.asp?itemcode=2732&source=searchresult.asp&keyword=Trial&g_than=1&l_than=2000&pgnu=1&category=all&eventcode=
It seem reasonable though that in the end, everything will be revealed
to us for our sake that we will truly know God’s Eternal Mercy and
Eternal Justice.
C
Chris_W
Guest
The best explanation I’ve heard was from Bishop Fulton Sheen who said (paraphrasing)
"Consider your soul at the time of Baptism as a fine piece of wood, unblemished and pure.
When we sin it is like a nail driven into the wood.
When we confess our sins the nails are removed…but holes are left where the nails once were.
It is our actions (good works) that fill the holes left by the nails."
So I would say I think the sins are “erased” by confession, and forgotten in the sense they are no longer held against us. But the shadow of those sins remain. They are “covered” by our works of reparation.
"Consider your soul at the time of Baptism as a fine piece of wood, unblemished and pure.
When we sin it is like a nail driven into the wood.
When we confess our sins the nails are removed…but holes are left where the nails once were.
It is our actions (good works) that fill the holes left by the nails."
So I would say I think the sins are “erased” by confession, and forgotten in the sense they are no longer held against us. But the shadow of those sins remain. They are “covered” by our works of reparation.
J
johnq
Guest
CCC
**The punishments of sin **
1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the “eternal punishment” of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the “temporal punishment” of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain. 84
1473 The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. He should strive by works of mercy and charity, as well as by prayer and the various practices of penance, to put off completely the “old man” and to put on the “new man.” 85
**The punishments of sin **
1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the “eternal punishment” of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the “temporal punishment” of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain. 84
1473 The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. He should strive by works of mercy and charity, as well as by prayer and the various practices of penance, to put off completely the “old man” and to put on the “new man.” 85
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