Sin is worse than hell

[fakename]

I never knew this but I think the Summa Theologica pretty much says it and I thought I’d share it cause I don’t know if anyone else knows it.

“Fault has the nature of evil more than pain has; not only more than pain of sense…but also more than any kind of pain , thus taking pain in its most general meaning, so as to include privation of grace or glory.”

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I never knew this but I think the Summa Theologica pretty much says it and I thought I’d share it cause I don’t know if anyone else knows it.

“Fault has the nature of evil more than pain has; not only more than pain of sense…but also more than any kind of pain , thus taking pain in its most general meaning, so as to include privation of grace or glory.”

confusing, no? did you understand exactly what it says?

 

[elysianverse]

Even the guy who wrote it probably doesn’t understand it. Lol.

 

[thistle]

I never knew this but I think the Summa Theologica pretty much says it and I thought I’d share it cause I don’t know if anyone else knows it.

“Fault has the nature of evil more than pain has; not only more than pain of sense…but also more than any kind of pain , thus taking pain in its most general meaning, so as to include privation of grace or glory.”

I think you are the only person on the planet that knows this!!

 

[fakename]

user "elysianverse":

Even the guy who wrote it probably doesn’t understand it. Lol.

When one reads it, it is difficult to discern any other meaning.

Plus, the footnote reads: “Therefore sin, is an even greater evil than its punishment (the privation of God’s life in the soul, which is present imperfectly by grace and perfectly by glory). In other words, the worst evil is not Hell but sin. The conclusion is startling to our sensibilities but demonstrated to our reason.” [from Peter Kreeft’s “Shorter Summa”]

And further: “St. Thomas here includes the fundamental moral insight…it is better to suffer evil than to do it…”

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I think you are the only person on the planet that knows this!!

I tried to ask first.
The sentence is saying that there are 2 pains in hell:

1. 
   *]fire
   *]the absence of God
   
   Fire may be bad but it has nothing to do compared with the absence of God, which is trillions of times worse.

 

[TarkanAttila]

Yes; but sin (“fault” as Thomas calls it) is worse than both.

So… sin really is its own punishment, one could say?

 

[fakename]

user "Pfaffenhoffen":

I tried to ask first.
The sentence is saying that there are 2 pains in hell:

1. fire
2. the absence of God

Fire may be bad but it has nothing to do compared with the absence of God, which is trillions of times worse.

that’s not the true interpretation of the passage since a gloss on the passage says that “pain” is used to designate “pain of loss”, etc. So even pain of loss is less bad than sin since the latter is a fault. So absolutely speaking, sin is worse than the pain of loss.

 

[empther]

The damned soul only has memories of past crimes to fill its mind. There is no nope for the future. It is trapped into a present incorporating both past and future, the past in remorse for sin which cannot be changed, and the future which is really nothing. There is no escape from this present.

 

[chevalier]

The damned soul only has memories of past crimes to fill its mind. There is no nope for the future. It is trapped into a present incorporating both past and future, the past in remorse for sin which cannot be changed, and the future which is really nothing. There is no escape from this present.

That’s until you get to the point where it says that original sin alone is sufficient to merit damnation, whereas punishment is based on the degree of fault for personal sin, leading some theologians to believe in a hell without suffering, or even resembling a “place of natural happiness” or the pagans’ own descriptions of paradise. Then you have Dante (not like he was a theologian) with his righteous pagans, who were not placed in heaven.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

that’s not the true interpretation of the passage since a gloss on the passage says that “pain” is used to designate “pain of loss”, etc. So even pain of loss is less bad than sin since the latter is a fault. So absolutely speaking, sin is worse than the pain of loss.

I think the 2 are different settings: one is the cause, the other the consequence.

 

[fakename]

user "Pfaffenhoffen":

I think the 2 are different settings: one is the cause, the other the consequence.

what do you mean, esp. regarding the word “settings”?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

what do you mean, esp. regarding the word “settings”?

What is worse: speeding at high speed or having all your bones cracked in a crash?
What is worse: eating a bad dinner or having an indigestion?
What is worse: arriving late at the station or missing the train?

 

[randirhoades]

Dear Friend,

Pardon me, and saying this truthfully without malice or sarcasm, but I will definitely be going to a College English class and one that deciphers meanings of what one says.

I’m glad you understand it, but I don’t. I’ve read it over and over and even read the posts following yours. Sighh, I’m such a kabogle head.

Love ya’ll,
Sheila

 

[fakename]

user "randirhoades":

Pardon me, and saying this truthfully without malice or sarcasm, but I will definitely be going to a College English class and one that deciphers meanings of what one says.

I’m glad you understand it, but I don’t. I’ve read it over and over and even read the posts following yours. Sighh, I’m such a kabogle head.

for your understanding, let me show the whole quote which will manifest the obvious meaning of the passage:

“Fault has the nature of evil more than pain has; not only more than pain of sense, consisting in the privation of corporeal goods, which kind of pain appeals to most men; but also more than any kind of pain, thus taking pain in its most general meaning, so as to include privation of grace or glory.”

Why? The philosopher gives his reason prior to the above exposition:

“A wise workman chooses a less evil in order to prevent a greater, as the surgeon cuts off a limb to save the whole body.”

But God chooses hell and punishment over sin, so hell is the less evil and sin is the worse.
user "Pfaffenhoffen":

What is worse: speeding at high speed or having all your bones cracked in a crash?
What is worse: eating a bad dinner or having an indigestion?
What is worse: arriving late at the station or missing the train?

apparently though, the passage intends the consequence to be lesser in evil than the cause of the consequence.

 

[hazcompat]

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

peace

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

for your understanding, let me show the whole quote which will manifest the obvious meaning of the passage:

“Fault has the nature of evil more than pain has; not only more than pain of sense, consisting in the privation of corporeal goods, which kind of pain appeals to most men; but also more than any kind of pain, thus taking pain in its most general meaning, so as to include privation of grace or glory.”

Why? The philosopher gives his reason prior to the above exposition:

“A wise workman chooses a less evil in order to prevent a greater, as the surgeon cuts off a limb to save the whole body.”

But God chooses hell and punishment over sin, so hell is the less evil and sin is the worse.

apparently though, the passage intends the consequence to be lesser in evil than the cause of the consequence.

And what is the comparison for? “lesser in evil”?
We could compare and elephant with Heaven, but what is that for?

 

[hazcompat]

Lectio divina Jeremiah chapter 3. Consider even our imperfections wound perfect love (G-D) like an unfaithful spouse. Father, never permit me to offend thee again!

peace

 

[hazcompat]

Jeremiah Chapter3 verse 20

But like a woman faithless to her lover,

thus have you been faithless to me,

house of Israel—oracle of the LORD.o

usccb.org/bible/jeremiah/3

ccel.org/node/5086

Lectio:
This first moment consists in reading the scriptural passage slowly, attentively for several times.

Meditatio:
The Christian, gravitating around the passage or one of its words, takes it and ruminates on it, thinking in God’s presence about the text. He or she benefits from the Holy Spirit’s ministry of illumination, i.e. the work of the Spirit that imparts spiritual understanding of the sacred text. It is not a special revelation from God, but the inward working of the Holy Spirit, which enables the Christian to grasp the revelation contained in the Scripture.

Oratio:

This is a response to the passage by opening the heart to God. It is not an intellectual exercise, but an intuitive conversation or dialogue with God.

Contemplatio:

This moment is characterized by a simple, loving focus on God. In other words, it is a beautiful, wordless contemplation of God, a joyful rest in his presence.

to sin is worse than hell.

peace

 

[fakename]

user "Pfaffenhoffen":

And what is the comparison for? “lesser in evil”?
We could compare and elephant with Heaven, but what is that for?
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It is a piece of information good to know in itself.
Also, it makes us dislike sin all that much, if we know that hell is not as bad as fault.