Sin of the Sodomites

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When we read the euphemism “sin of the Sodomites”, does that refer strctly to homosexual acts, or does it also refer to similar acts that a man and woman might engage in?

The extra credit question is “how do we know?”

Thanks, and let’s keep the language vague, please.
 
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Timidity:
When we read the euphemism “sin of the Sodomites”, does that refer strctly to homosexual acts, or does it also refer to similar acts that a man and woman might engage in?

The extra credit question is “how do we know?”

Thanks, and let’s keep the language vague, please.
It is strictly male homosexuality, as Lot offered the men of Sodom his two virgin daughters to do whatever they wanted with, and they refused them. The men wanted Lot’s male visitors. The sin of Sodom is male homosexual activity. Period.
 
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Scott_Lafrance:
It is strictly male homosexuality
Does that mean that female homosexual activity doesn’t “cry out to Heaven for vengence”?
 
look to the spirit of the law, rather than the letter of the law.
 
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Timidity:
Does that mean that female homosexual activity doesn’t “cry out to Heaven for vengence”?
Female sexual abominations are addressed elsewhere in the bible, specifically Deuteronomy. My impression was that the initiator of this thread wanted us to address the specific situation of Sodom.
 
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Scott_Lafrance:
My impression was that the initiator of this thread wanted us to address the specific situation of Sodom.
I’m the initiator of this thread. My goal isn’t to discuss Sodom; it’s to understand the phrase “Sin of the Sodomites” that you find in the Catechism’s list “Sins that cry out to Heaven” (or, in the old prayer books “Sins that cry out to Heaven for vengence”) as well as in old Catholic writings. I have heard different people apply this phrase to different things, and so I’m searching for Truth.
 
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Timidity:
Does that mean that female homosexual activity doesn’t “cry out to Heaven for vengence”?
Female homosexual activity is also a sin. Usually when we are reading about the sin of sodomy it referrs to two men engaging in a homosexual act (anal intercourse). I believe the sin of sodomy (anal intercourse) cries out to Heaven for vengence whether it is two men or a man and a woman. Sodomy goes against the laws of nature.

This would be a good question to ask in “Ask an apologist”. I wonder if there are some married heterosexual Catholic couples that engage in the act of sodomy not knowing they are doing anything wrong?
 
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GloriaPatri4:
This would be a good question to ask in “Ask an apologist”. I wonder if there are some married heterosexual Catholic couples that engage in the act of sodomy not knowing they are doing anything wrong?
Since this form of activity is not open to life, then yes, it is illicit for couples to engage in this form of activity.
 
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GloriaPatri4:
Female homosexual activity is also a sin. Usually when we are reading about the sin of sodomy it referrs to two men engaging in a homosexual act (anal intercourse). I believe the sin of sodomy (anal intercourse) cries out to Heaven for vengence whether it is two men or a man and a woman. Sodomy goes against the laws of nature.

This would be a good question to ask in “Ask an apologist”. I wonder if there are some married heterosexual Catholic couples that engage in the act of sodomy not knowing they are doing anything wrong?
I think the emphasis on men is very important! Men are the leaders in society (whether we want to believe it or not) and men set the tone on what is morally acceptable in society. Men are not to be penetrated during sex! Sodomy is unnatural sex. Sodomy is anal and oral sex between two men because sodomy requires penetration. God places sodomy in the same category as sexual intercourse between humans and animals! Why is it unnatural? It is unnatural because no life can be created from these acts and the sole purpose is to only receive pleasure (not to create life). Anal sex and oral sex between heterosexuals could be used as a prerequisite to vaginal intercourse, which can create life. All male homosexual relationships, male homosexual kissing, male homosexual acts, lead to the greatest of abominations. … male sexual intercourse. If the issue was just about anal sex between two people why did the mob of men in Sodom (who were the most sexually decadent men of all time) turn down two “young,” “beautiful,” “teenage,” “virgin” females ripe for marriage for two HAIRY MALE STRANGERS??? It is not the same thing! All homosexuals are sinners who should be in our prayers … because it specifically says in the NT they will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I don’t want anyone to go to hell!
 
Hello Everyone,

Bluezone7, ironically you’ve addressed a question I’ve been looking for an answer for. So a married heterosexual couple using anal or oral sex for a prerequisite to vaginal sex is allowed? Or not considered sin rather? Is there any church writing or referrence you could direct me to that would substanstiate your statement?

I just want to read something official for my own edification and conscience.

Thank you for (name removed by moderator)ut on the topic.
 
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bluezone7:
I think the emphasis on men is very important! Men are the leaders in society (whether we want to believe it or not) and men set the tone on what is morally acceptable in society. Men are not to be penetrated during sex! Sodomy is unnatural sex. Sodomy is anal and oral sex between two men because sodomy requires penetration. God places sodomy in the same category as sexual intercourse between humans and animals! Why is it unnatural? It is unnatural because no life can be created from these acts and the sole purpose is to only receive pleasure (not to create life). Anal sex and oral sex between heterosexuals could be used as a prerequisite to vaginal intercourse, which can create life. All male homosexual relationships, male homosexual kissing, male homosexual acts, lead to the greatest of abominations. … male sexual intercourse. If the issue was just about anal sex between two people why did the mob of men in Sodom (who were the most sexually decadent men of all time) turn down two “young,” “beautiful,” “teenage,” “virgin” females ripe for marriage for two HAIRY MALE STRANGERS??? It is not the same thing! All homosexuals are sinners who should be in our prayers … because it specifically says in the NT they will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I don’t want anyone to go to hell!
Two comments:

It is now debatable that “mob of men in Sodom (who were the most sexually decadent men of all time)”

“All homosexuals are sinners who should be in our prayers” - You should make a distinction between those who practice and/or promote homosexuality and those who do not.
 
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DaMaMaXiMuS:
Hello Everyone,

Bluezone7, ironically you’ve addressed a question I’ve been looking for an answer for. So a married heterosexual couple using anal or oral sex for a prerequisite to vaginal sex is allowed? Or not considered sin rather? Is there any church writing or referrence you could direct me to that would substanstiate your statement?

I just want to read something official for my own edification and conscience.

Thank you for (name removed by moderator)ut on the topic.
I have read that those acts may be licit as long as the climax always happens vaginally. However, I have also read that those acts should be avoided if one spouse finds them repugnant.

I will try and find a reference.
 
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DaMaMaXiMuS:
Hello Everyone,

Bluezone7, ironically you’ve addressed a question I’ve been looking for an answer for. So a married heterosexual couple using anal or oral sex for a prerequisite to vaginal sex is allowed? Or not considered sin rather? Is there any church writing or referrence you could direct me to that would substanstiate your statement?

I just want to read something official for my own edification and conscience.

Thank you for (name removed by moderator)ut on the topic.
Christopher West address these questions in his book, “Good News About Sex and Marriage”. Regarding Oral Sex, I will paraphrase what West says. The is nothing wrong with oral stimulation as part of foreplay providing that each spouse is okay with it. We should also be careful not to cross that line allowing this to become a lustfull act that objectifies the person performing the act. And of course, this is only acceptable as foreplay to vaginal intercourse where the sex act must be completed.

Regarding anal sex, West pretty much says the same thing. There is nothing inherently wrong with anal penetration as foreplay to normal intercourse. He then goes on to add some points about hygiene, and asks why a couple would want anal sex as part of foreplay?

Hope that helps.
 
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RichT:
There is some medical research that is showing the health dangers associated with anal sex. It has to do with the very thin epithelial lining and how disease can enter the body here, including if I remember right a cancer risk.

Take heed of the natural law. They are there for a reason, naturally. 🙂
 
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buffalo:
There is some medical research that is showing the health dangers associated with anal sex. It has to do with the very thin epithelial lining and how disease can enter the body here, including if I remember right a cancer risk.

Take heed of the natural law. They are there for a reason, naturally. 🙂
This is also mentioned in West’s book.
 
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buffalo:
There is some medical research that is showing the health dangers associated with anal sex. It has to do with the very thin epithelial lining and how disease can enter the body here, including if I remember right a cancer risk.

Take heed of the natural law. They are there for a reason, naturally. 🙂
This is a good point. Sperm suppresses the immune system locally. This is an aid to pregnancy. But deposited in the wrong place, it aids disease.
 
Thank you very much for your responses, it’s really appreciated. I’ll be looking for the book by Christopher West, but are his statements substanstiated by any official church writtings?

Again thank you.
 
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DaMaMaXiMuS:
Thank you very much for your responses, it’s really appreciated. I’ll be looking for the book by Christopher West, but are his statements substanstiated by any official church writtings?

Again thank you.
He is considered by many to be the expert on the Theology of the Body. His teaching is sound, and although I don’t know of any specific church writings regarding these specific subjects, I don’t think he would put himself out on a limb if there were any specific teachings that disputed his books.
 
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miguel:
This is a good point. Sperm suppresses the immune system locally. This is an aid to pregnancy. But deposited in the wrong place, it aids disease.
Is it possible the Original Sin was oral ejaculation?
 
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