sin or not

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Kathrin

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So if I feel something that I think may be impure, just a quick feeling, without me really doing anything, and then try to feel it again to prove myself it was nothing, or maybe I didn’t, but then MAYBE in reality I did try to feel it again because I liked it after all? And I just don’t remember for sure, even as i know myself that I would stop if I became aware it was sinful… but I am not sure…

So I know it has been said, mortal sins don’t happen by accident… but if I don’t REMEMBER if it was an accident or not? What do I do then? Can I assume here too that since I am known to be scrupulous, I can assume it wasn’t mortal sin? I just was at confession on Saturday.

Kathrin
 
I truly suggest you go to a good catholic priest and ask him about what sin is and what it isn’t…especially for when you have concerns as to mortal sin.

Mortal sin:

Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter (think of the 10 commandments, etc.)
Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
Mortal sin is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner
 
So if I feel something that I think may be impure, just a quick feeling, without me really doing anything, and then try to feel it again to prove myself it was nothing, or maybe I didn’t, but then MAYBE in reality I did try to feel it again because I liked it after all? And I just don’t remember for sure, even as i know myself that I would stop if I became aware it was sinful… but I am not sure…

So I know it has been said, mortal sins don’t happen by accident… but if I don’t REMEMBER if it was an accident or not? What do I do then? Can I assume here too that since I am known to be scrupulous, I can assume it wasn’t mortal sin? I just was at confession on Saturday.

Kathrin
You are one of the most scrupulous members of these forums. You really should have a long chat to a priest about this otherwise you will have a miserable life thinking everything you do, say or think is/may be sinful.
 
You are one of the most scrupulous members of these forums. You really should have a long chat to a priest about this otherwise you will have a miserable life thinking everything you do, say or think is/may be sinful.
I did already.
And I have been talking to a counselor at church too.
I know I struggle hard sometimes.
But I wouldn’t say my life is miserable. That’s a hard word. There are a lot of very joyful things in my life too.

❤️

(I didn’t mean to offend you by saying it’s a hard word. 😊)
(You know, I have really talked about this before, many times. It’s just that sometimes there is a situation that is a LITTLE bit different - like the “what if I remember wrong?” part. And then I struggle again. I have to rely on that deep confidence in God I guess, that helps me a lot in other areas of life too I think… It’s not that I really believe God isn’t caring and forgiving… I know God is Love… it’s just that sometimes/often doubts sneak in anyway… Not always though, at least so I hope!!!)
 
I did already.
And I have been talking to a counselor at church too.
I know I struggle hard sometimes.
But I wouldn’t say my life is miserable. That’s a hard word. There are a lot of very joyful things in my life too.

❤️

(I didn’t mean to offend you by saying it’s a hard word. 😊)
(You know, I have really talked about this before, many times. It’s just that sometimes there is a situation that is a LITTLE bit different - like the “what if I remember wrong?” part. And then I struggle again. I have to rely on that deep confidence in God I guess, that helps me a lot in other areas of life too I think… It’s not that I really believe God isn’t caring and forgiving… I know God is Love… it’s just that sometimes/often doubts sneak in anyway… Not always though, at least so I hope!!!)
It is true that sometimes we can commit a sin and not realize it.

An analogy might be knowing we are physically ill and not knowing what is wrong. We have a pain and don’t know why. We might come to believe that it was caused by an ulcer, or it might be a tumor, or a dozen other possiblitities, and we try to go about fixing the thing we think is wrong. In this case we can not apply the right remedy unless the diagnosis is correct. We might take some pretty painful cures and all the while we were overdosing on vitamin B. To be cured of what ails us we have to know what is wrong and know how to fix it, or someone else has to know and be willing to help us.

The scrupulous know something is wrong, but not what.

Our faith tells us that we are fallen. We are spiritually broken, every one of us. It also tells us we can not fix ourselves. We are sinners and Jesus says anyone who sins is a slave to sin. We need someone more powerful than our slave master to set us free. We believe that person is Jesus. He loves us, even in our sins. It does not matter what our particular sins are. He loves us all. He died for us sinners. That means you.

Whatever it is that is wrong with us Jesus can fix it. If He does not fix it we will not be fixed. We have to trust Him to fix us. There is no other hope for us. Trusting Him is essential. We can not rely on ourselves.

The scrupulous person knows something is wrong, but he blames himself for things that are not really wrong. He picks at scabs until his soul bleeds and inflicts wounds on himself for imaginary faults. If it is not one imaginary sin it is another and he is forever frantic in compulsively searching out flaws that are not there.

This does not mean he has no sin. It only means he has misidentified it. In a way it is a denial of what the real cause of guilt is. All sinners hide their sins. In this case whatever is really wrong Jesus has the cure. He is the cure.

Faith, hope and love are the theological virtues. Without them we can not be saved. Whatever our sins are, if we fail to hope in God, to trust in His mercy, this is a sin against hope.

If we refuse to believe God loves us and forgives us, even for imaginary sins, it is also a sin against faith.

Assume that you have committed some sin. Say it is a sin against purity. You are right that you can’t remember correctly, but it is really a sin. God loves sinners, all of them. This sin does not stop God from loving you.

Assume now the opposite is true. You have not committed a sin. It is in your imagination, not real, but you won’t stop worrying about it. The worry is the real sin. Jesus says, “Let not your hearts be troubled”. “Be not afraid”. Your worry is disobedience. It is a failure to trust in God’s love and mercy for you, and accept it. You will not allow yourself to be loved. That is the sin.

If you want to repent of your sin, stop worrying. Obey Jesus an stop worrying. Trust Him to forgive you.

It is true that no one is worthy of God’s love. That includes me, you and everyone you know. That doesn’t matter. He loves you anyway. You can’t stop Him from loving you. You can refuse to accept His love. It is a take it or leave it proposition. Your worthiness is irrelevant. Will you accept it or not?

Whether or not your faults are real or imagined, when you constantly dwell on them, the result is the same. You are impeding, preventing yourself from accepting God’s love for you, and peace. Whether you had an impure thought, or failed to hope trust in God’s love, God forgives you.

The universal balm for all our failures whatever they are, is grace and mercy.

In a sense it is like there being one medicine for all diseases. If the disease comes back the medicine always works and it is free. All we need to do is take it.
 
I know God loves me!:bowdown: I know it, I know it, I feel it, and sometimes I feel so much comfort by it, it is so beautiful, like He is holding me in His big loving arms saying, don’t worry, it’s all ok…

But the church also says that we have to go to confession if we have committed mortal sins.
So, ok, if I really commit a severe sin and I am sure of it, then it’s actually easier: I just know I have to make it to confession asap.

But when I am not sure.
And I just WAS at confession 2 days ago.
And I think, maybe I don’t remember right, maybe I did commit a mortal sin.
Di I go again then, just in case?
Or not, because I know I’m scrupulous?
 
I know God loves me!:bowdown: I know it, I know it, I feel it, and sometimes I feel so much comfort by it, it is so beautiful, like He is holding me in His big loving arms saying, don’t worry, it’s all ok…

But the church also says that we have to go to confession if we have committed mortal sins.
So, ok, if I really commit a severe sin and I am sure of it, then it’s actually easier: I just know I have to make it to confession asap.

But when I am not sure.
And I just WAS at confession 2 days ago.
And I think, maybe I don’t remember right, maybe I did commit a mortal sin.
Di I go again then, just in case?
Or not, because I know I’m scrupulous?
You are scrupulous. You are beating yourself up unnecessarily and that is keeping you from the peace God wills for you. You are doing it to yuorself. Martin Luther went to confession several times a day. He could not believe God forgave Him. What he did to justify himself was concoct a false doctrine, sola fide. This was from mental illness and desperation.

If you commit a mortal sin and that is a very big IF, and you are sorry for it, God forgives you immediately. You still need to confess serious sin, but we are still operating in the IF zone, and it can wait until your regular confession time, say once per week, or month. If you intend to confess your sins or what might be sins, that is good enough.

Here is a possible approach to your problem. In stead of thinking about you and what you have done wrong, think about God, Mary and the saints. You can say with Saint Paul that you are the worst of all sinners, but the fact that God loves you anyway makes God even greater for being merciful to such a terrible person as you, or me. You need to accept the fact that God loves you no matter what you do. All it takes to receive mercy and love is to desire it. Do you desire mercy and love? Yes or no?

It is yours. It is free. God gives it to you. It is your possession.

Imagine that I caused you serious harm. I hurt you on purpose and out of malice. Maybe I betrayed a confidence and caused you hreat harm. Then suppose I came to you in tears and begged you to forgive me and from the bottom of your heart you forgive me. Now suppose I said thank you, but I still feel guilty. I can not forgive myself for this terrible thing I did to you. I hate myself for it and always will.

How would you feel? You really want me to not hate myself anymore over this sin. You forgive me, but it does no good, because I still feel guilt. You can not release me from my guilt if I will not accept your mercy. That is what you are doing to God who loves and forgives you and wills only your happiness and peace fo soul. The proper response to the gift God wills to give you is accept it and say thank you. Give God your gratitude. Never stop saying thank you, but stop immediately from harming yourself.
 
Thank you Grandfather.
Those are very wise words.

You know, I think I am really somebody who wants to be forgiving to everybody, and maybe it is weird that I have such a hard time not feeling anxious about my own possible sins… I remember one time somebody stole my wallet and it caused me a big hassle because of the bank card in it and it was Sunday… but what I did was when I got to church that evening I lit a candle for whoever had stolen my wallet…

I know God forgives.

What though do you say about not being able to go to communion until one confesses mortal sins?
I guess that doesn’t count for “maybe/if/if anyway” sins of the scrupulous?

Kathrin
 
Thank you Grandfather.
Those are very wise words.

You know, I think I am really somebody who wants to be forgiving to everybody, and maybe it is weird that I have such a hard time not feeling anxious about my own possible sins… I remember one time somebody stole my wallet and it caused me a big hassle because of the bank card in it and it was Sunday… but what I did was when I got to church that evening I lit a candle for whoever had stolen my wallet…

I know God forgives.

What though do you say about not being able to go to communion until one confesses mortal sins?
I guess that doesn’t count for “maybe/if/if anyway” sins of the scrupulous?

Kathrin
The scrupulous are the most lovable people. They are always kind to others and indulgent. They care for others and pray for others. They are kind to everyone, but themselves, and they struggle to receive the love of others. They are loved, but they block the love from themselves, because they think they are unlovable. They think everyone should be loved, but me. They can give kindness and love, but refuse to receive it. This frustrates the action of love.

This goes to the essence of why we exist, why God made us. Every suol is made to love and be loved. You have to stop looking at your faults, real or imagined, and allow God to love you. He loves you in your fault. Let Him do that.

Your real sin, if you have any, is failing to believe you are lovable, that you are loved by God, that you are His treasure, NO MATTER WHAT YOU HAVE DONE, or imagine you have done. If you do not stop this you will be driven to despair, which is a terrible sin.

You should go to Communion and receive the grace and not allow your imagination to trick you any longer.

In addition to being made to be loved by God, you are also made to be a conduit of divine love for others, a channel of grace. You receive grace and it benefits you, but also goes out to others. Stop getting in the way. Allow God to bless you and then participate in the work of Jesus, the redemption of souls. Beating yourself up creates a blockage to the flow of grace.
 
I did go to communion today.

You know, I don’t think I am unlovable. I know God loves each one of us. I love to do good things and then feel the LOVE itself, you know, the sharing part of it… small gestures of kindness.

It’s just that sometimes I get so focused on one little problem that worries me… that seems like so big at the time, it saps my energy, yes I think it does. And yes, I and other sufferers from the same or similar things, we have to - are allowed to, maybe we need to tell ourselves - stop this, not let it get in the way, as you say. because often it does get in the way. Not only in the way of leading a joyful life and being at peace, but also in the way of going good things!

Thanks…

Kathrin
 
I did go to communion today.

You know, I don’t think I am unlovable. I know God loves each one of us. I love to do good things and then feel the LOVE itself, you know, the sharing part of it… small gestures of kindness.

It’s just that sometimes I get so focused on one little problem that worries me… that seems like so big at the time, it saps my energy, yes I think it does. And yes, I and other sufferers from the same or similar things, we have to - are allowed to, maybe we need to tell ourselves - stop this, not let it get in the way, as you say. because often it does get in the way. Not only in the way of leading a joyful life and being at peace, but also in the way of going good things!

Thanks…

Kathrin
I see you are online right now.

Say a prayer of thanks right now. Thank God for making you and loving you. Thank Him for the gift of faith, for life, for love, for hope, for the saints, Mary, friends, the innocence of children, the beauty of creation, the sacraments. Continue to think of all of the good things you know and have. Finally when you can not think of anymore, thank Him for the gift of mercy that not only wipes away all of your sins, but makes you a holy soul.
 
Oh dear. If you aren’t sure just go confess it. Why dwell on it?
 
Oh dear. If you aren’t sure just go confess it. Why dwell on it?
Convert,

Do you know anything about the struggles of the scrupulous? They go to confession all the time. It is not a problem of not confessing enough, but too much. Your advice may be well intentioned, but unless you understand the condition you won’t be able to help. Confessors who do understand the condition are often unable to allay the consciences of the scrupulous.
 
I must say I have made good experiences with confessors, I don’t remember that even one didn’t understand the problem of scrupulosity sicne I have dealt with it… even when I had a burning question and just went to a monastery and asked for a priest… he seemed to understand very well.

I have been very blessed. With all the understanding. Spending time in different places, this has been a blessing.

Still when it is possible I like to go to somebody I have talked to before and who knows a little bit about the background of my struggles. And I guess there are priests I feel more comfortable with than others. So sometimes I see in the for example in the church newspaper that a certain priest is taking confessions that Saturday for example, and then I try to go then.

It’s also not good for scrupulosity to go everytime there is a doubt. Because the doubt is like a malfunctioning of the brain or something.
And: One priest once told me going too often can also take the specialness out of confession.

:love:

Kathrin
 
I must say I have made good experiences with confessors, I don’t remember that even one didn’t understand the problem of scrupulosity sicne I have dealt with it… even when I had a burning question and just went to a monastery and asked for a priest… he seemed to understand very well.

I have been very blessed. With all the understanding. Spending time in different places, this has been a blessing.

Still when it is possible I like to go to somebody I have talked to before and who knows a little bit about the background of my struggles. And I guess there are priests I feel more comfortable with than others. So sometimes I see in the for example in the church newspaper that a certain priest is taking confessions that Saturday for example, and then I try to go then.

It’s also not good for scrupulosity to go everytime there is a doubt. Because the doubt is like a malfunctioning of the brain or something.
And: One priest once told me going too often can also take the specialness out of confession.

:love:

Kathrin
Kathrin,
Most priests have some skill in dealing with the scrupulous. Sometimes they will forbid a penitent from coming to them and confessing more than once per week. The scrupulous will try to get arund this by going to another priest. The poor scrupulous soul walks out of confession and worries he has forgotten something, or did not exactly explain something, or was not contrite enough, or forgot a word or two in the Act of Contrition, and begins to doubt the confession, always fretting over the state of his soul.

I have a friend who has a hand washing compulsion. He washes his hands until they bleed. This is what the scrupulous do to their souls. They somehow can not be convinced they are clean. There is always a piece of lint to pick at.

What God wants is for you to rest in His love, completely confident that you are immensely, infinitely loved. Then you can convey that love to other souls.
 
For me it’s mostly over-examining my thoughts, words (and those of others) and actions, asking myself: Did I now think something that was selfish? Did I make a promise by saying something? Did I maybe “think” a promise? Stuff like that.
Sometimes it helps to talk to somebody right away, to stop it in the tracks before it gets a whole spiralling worry. A good friend, or a priest… can help then. Of course I don’t want to be calling a priest all the time, I don’t want to be a bother either…

Sometimes it also helps to just say STOP to the thought, tell ymself I can think about it again in half an hour, not let it become a spiralling thing… and that can help too. Beat it as long as it’s young, the thought, I mean.

It’s getting late here (I’m in Europe). Good night for now!

Kathrin
 
I did go to communion today.

You know, I don’t think I am unlovable. I know God loves each one of us. I love to do good things and then feel the LOVE itself, you know, the sharing part of it… small gestures of kindness.

It’s just that sometimes I get so focused on one little problem that worries me… that seems like so big at the time, it saps my energy, yes I think it does. And yes, I and other sufferers from the same or similar things, we have to - are allowed to, maybe we need to tell ourselves - stop this, not let it get in the way, as you say. because often it does get in the way. Not only in the way of leading a joyful life and being at peace, but also in the way of going good things!

Thanks…

Kathrin
Hi Kathrin,

I know this thread is a month old but I just read it and have to tell you that I feel the same way sometimes. It’s nice to know that there are others out there that go through the same things. I hope you’re doing well—many blessings!
 
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