Sin to refuse marriage?

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Thomasemmanuel, did the girl you were in a plaronic romantic relationship with proposed you marriage?
 
tafan said:
Good post, as I have wondered the same thing. I heard said once that, in the strictest sense, there are only three vocations: married life, religious life, or the priesthood. That may be a bit much, but when I think about it, it seems to make sense.

However, that does not mean it is a sin to not follow your vocation, maybe many of us do not even recognize our true vocation.

But to just stay single for no purpose? Its hard to see how that is really a healthy thing for most people. And I do like your examples of serious reasons (with the possible exception of the private vow to God, which would also need a purpose), the list is likely complete IMO.
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Thanks Tafan, I wasn’t too sure about the private vow to God but perhaps for those persons a bit further out on the high functioning autistic/asperger continuum (we are all on it to some degree apparantly) then it may well be healthy. I also note that a number of studies have shown up to 10% of a population are naturally “neuter” (nothing psychosexual going on even after puberty) so married lifestyle is not going to be something that will biologically “appeal” to significant numbers in a given population.

In some ways a private vow to God could be likened to a committed response to a burning ideal/career/ambition. …its just that it focus’s on God’s Person(s) rather than a genius/angel or Plato-Ideal whatever you want to call it.
 
Blue_Horizon said:
Thanks Tafan, I wasn’t too sure about the private vow to God but perhaps for those persons a bit further out on the high functioning autistic/asperger continuum (we are all on it to some degree apparantly) then it may well be healthy. I also note that a number of studies have shown up to 10% of a population are naturally “neuter” (nothing psychosexual going on even after puberty) so married lifestyle is not going to be something that will biologically “appeal” to significant numbers in a given population.

In some ways a private vow to God could be likened to a committed response to a burning ideal/career/ambition. …its just that it focus’s on God’s Person(s) rather than a genius/angel or Plato-Ideal whatever you want to call it.
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Perhaps you are right, especially on the first paragraph. So the first list is not as complete as I speculated, nevertheless, they all still constitute a “serious reason” for choosing not to marry. The point being, none of us should just stay single for any arbitrary or selfish reason. Not that it would necessarily be sinful, just that it is not wise.
 
Wow I wasn’t expecting so many responses!

To answer most of the questions that have been posed to me, this is not a situation that I am personally in at the moment, yet I think it wise to ponder about it in the event that it should occur.

My choice not to get married is simply a matter of preference. As is the case with many of my generation, we find that a life led in singlehood is less troubled and more fulfilling than married life, with or without children.

There is great value in spousal companionship and marital love, but we (meaning people like myself) simply feel that married life is not for us, and we see it as a perfectly acceptable choice, given that close friends, the church community and colleagues all provide love and joy that are equally valuable and adequate.

… which brings me to the question on whether it is acceptable in moral law.
 
thomasemmanuel said:
Wow I wasn’t expecting so many responses!

To answer most of the questions that have been posed to me, this is not a situation that I am personally in at the moment, yet I think it wise to ponder about it in the event that it should occur.

My choice not to get married is simply a matter of preference. As is the case with many of my generation, we find that a life led in singlehood is less troubled and more fulfilling than married life, with or without children.

There is great value in spousal companionship and marital love, but we (meaning people like myself) simply feel that married life is not for us, and we see it as a perfectly acceptable choice, given that close friends, the church community and colleagues all provide love and joy that are equally valuable and adequate.

… which brings me to the question on whether it is acceptable in moral law.
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It is acceptable in moral law to remain single, whatever your reasons, as long as it is God’s will for you. Discerning that is for you alone to determine. If you truly believe you are not suited to married life, then you are wise not to pursue it. Of course, the Church expects you to remain celibate. That’s something you need to take into consideration, as well. Is that what you truly want? And you may be surprised if the right person comes along. I think it’s best to stay open to the possibility of marriage unless God has called you to a specific vocation that requires you to remain single, such as consecrated virgin or religious.
 
thomasemmanuel said:
Wow I wasn’t expecting so many responses!

To answer most of the questions that have been posed to me, this is not a situation that I am personally in at the moment, yet I think it wise to ponder about it in the event that it should occur.

My choice not to get married is simply a matter of preference. As is the case with many of my generation, we find that a life led in singlehood is less troubled and more fulfilling than married life, with or without children.

There is great value in spousal companionship and marital love, but we (meaning people like myself) simply feel that married life is not for us, and we see it as a perfectly acceptable choice, given that close friends, the church community and colleagues all provide love and joy that are equally valuable and adequate.

… which brings me to the question on whether it is acceptable in moral law.
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It’s fine to choose to be celibate- a eunuch for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. If you believe you’re called to celibacy, you’ve got to act like it. This means you shouldn’t be dating or allowing anyone to get close enough to you to seriously want to marry you. If you’re acting as one who is called to celibacy should act and they still want to marry you, ignore them- they’re just infatuated and their feelings will pass. If you are dating them but have no intention to marry, you’re just leading them on and for the sake of charity, you must break it off immediately.
 
thomasemmanuel said:
Wow I wasn’t expecting so many responses!

To answer most of the questions that have been posed to me, this is not a situation that I am personally in at the moment, yet I think it wise to ponder about it in the event that it should occur.

My choice not to get married is simply a matter of preference. As is the case with many of my generation, we find that a life led in singlehood is less troubled and more fulfilling than married life, with or without children.

There is great value in spousal companionship and marital love, but we (meaning people like myself) simply feel that married life is not for us, and we see it as a perfectly acceptable choice, given that close friends, the church community and colleagues all provide love and joy that are equally valuable and adequate.

… which brings me to the question on whether it is acceptable in moral law.
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Based on the information you gave in your original post - it could well be moral. Problems, if any, may arise from what you’ve not said, hence I ask a few questions:
  1. By life led in “singlehood”, do you mean a celibate, single life?
  2. If you have a view that you do not ever want to be married, and you are committed to a celibate single life, then I wonder how you arrive at a point (in a relationship) where another would propose marriage to you - once, let alone perpetually? This is not to say that you would never go out with a girl, but it ought to be obvious after a number of such outings (given the preference for a chaste, single life), that you don’t seek marriage (or intimacy) with her. I say this because there is usually a ramping up of all forms of affection, including physical, emotional, etc. in a relationship that is heading in the direction of marriage, and the absence of that ramp-up would send a pretty clear signal that we’re not heading in that direction! So I’m sure you can understand why I am asking my bolded question above!
So - if you can fill in the gaps as asked above, I think a more complete answer to your question an be provided.
 
In case some readers are getting a bit confused by the use of the word “celibacy” in the last few posts … please realise that the contributors really mean “celibate chastity” (ie no sex at all).

Celibacy by itself really just means “unmarried”.
(So to say, if you are not wanting to marry then you must remain celibate…is a tautology, a repitition.)

For a Catholic, being unmarried requires the discipline of total chastity.
 
Blue_Horizon said:
In case some readers are getting a bit confused by the use of the word “celibacy” in the last few posts … please realize that the contributors really mean “celibate chastity” (ie no sex at all).

Celibacy by itself really just means “unmarried”.
(So to say, if you are not wanting to marry then you must remain celibate…is a tautology, a repitition.)

For a Catholic, being unmarried requires the discipline of total chastity.
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All are called to live a chaste life, celibate clergy, married clergy, married laity, unmarried religious, unmarried laity alike. Chaste does not mean no sexual intimacy, continence does. All are called to live a totally chaste life in whatever state of life we are called to.

Celibate = unmarried vow/promise as in religious or clergy
Married = chastity means faithful to spouse
unmarried = chastity as a single person means abstaining from all sex outside of sacramental marriage
continence = abstain from sex in or outside of marriage

These terms can be a little confusing when used in conversations like these.
 
Rau said:
Based on the information you gave in your original post - it could well be moral. Problems, if any, may arise from what you’ve not said, hence I ask a few questions:
  1. By life led in “singlehood”, do you mean a celibate, single life?
  2. If you have a view that you do not ever want to be married, and you are committed to a celibate single life, then I wonder how you arrive at a point (in a relationship) where another would propose marriage to you - once, let alone perpetually? This is not to say that you would never go out with a girl, but it ought to be obvious after a number of such outings (given the preference for a chaste, single life), that you don’t seek marriage (or intimacy) with her. I say this because there is usually a ramping up of all forms of affection, including physical, emotional, etc. in a relationship that is heading in the direction of marriage, and the absence of that ramp-up would send a pretty clear signal that we’re not heading in that direction! So I’m sure you can understand why I am asking my bolded question above!
So - if you can fill in the gaps as asked above, I think a more complete answer to your question an be provided.
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To avoid confusion, I’ll not use the technical terms:
  1. I do not intend to have any extra-marital sexual relations. No marriage = no sex.
  2. The answer to the second question is rather complex. As mentioned, I am not currently in the situation (i.e. she has not made any propositions), and I am asking this question just in case. We have not had sexual relations, though we are, at the very least, very close friends.
Seems that the consensus is that it is perfectly fine for me to reject any advances?
 
thomasemmanuel said:
To avoid confusion, I’ll not use the technical terms:
  1. I do not intend to have any extra-marital sexual relations. No marriage = no sex.
  2. The answer to the second question is rather complex. As mentioned, I am not currently in the situation (i.e. she has not made any propositions), and I am asking this question just in case. We have not had sexual relations, though we are, at the very least, very close friends.
Seems that the consensus is that it is perfectly fine for me to reject any advances?
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I personally don’t see anything immoral based on what you’ve told us. However, you’ve not really answered the second question - and of course you don’t have to. **I would only caution you against misleading the lady, by your actions, or inactions. **If you think a proposal is a distinct possibility, perhaps you should consider how you might be able to save your friend the embarrassment of asking and being declined. If you think “perpetual” proposals (as suggested by your original post) are possible, then it seems to me you are not thinking about your friend’s best interests.
 
Well of course I’d do my utmost to find the best solution that would do the least harm to both of us!👍
 
I’d tell her expressly and honestly that marriage is out of the question, ever. I believe that would be the moral thing to do…
 
thomasemmanuel said:
I’d tell her expressly and honestly that marriage is out of the question, ever. I believe that would be the moral thing to do…
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Well, that should clear up any confusion!

Would it be appropriate to share that thought early on in any future relationships?
 
Well, given my convictions it is unlikely that I will get myself into such … confusing circumstances in future 🙂
 
thomasemmanuel said:
Is it a sin to:

perpetually refuse to marry a particular person
when that person has proposed marriage to you,
if the only reason why you don’t want to get married is that you don’t ever want to marry?
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Are you two living together and living like you are married? That is the big question.

Men and women have different ideas on living together. The woman thinks, “oh good, since we are living together he will soon ask me to marry him” and the man thinks, “oh good, since we are living together I won’t have to marry her.”
 
thomasemmanuel said:
Well of course I’d do my utmost to find the best solution that would do the least harm to both of us!👍
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Thomas again, as many of us told you in your other posts, choosing the single life is not a sin. What is not morally acceptable is choosing singlehood while having a relationship that recreates the marital relationship (without sex) or a relationship that recreates one that is conducive to marriage. In the other threat you told.me that she had zero intentions of being in a serious relationships and her intentions were never wanting marriage, never wanting any other relationship with anyone other than you, and never wanting sex. Here it appears that she had made advances to you, so again, as I told you before it is quite clear that you are misleading her. You cannot choose celibacy and single life if you are sleeping on the same bed with her and being romantic with her. What you need to do is stop misleading her, not with word with actions: no more sleeping together, no more romantic relationship. just telling her that marriage is out of the question is not enough! You have to stop sleeping on the same bed with her, stop kissing her and stop doing all the other stuff you said in the other threat (which only belongs into a relationship conducive to marriage not in a friendship). Many of us warned you that you are getting into a huge problem with this relationship. You either choose celibacy and live it accordingly or you choose the relationship/marriage way but you can’t not have both.
 
oneofmany said:
Are you two living together and living like you are married? That is the big question.

Men and women have different ideas on living together. The woman thinks, “oh good, since we are living together he will soon ask me to marry him” and the man thinks, “oh good, since we are living together I won’t have to marry her.”
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He responded that in other extensive threads about the same issue. No they don’t live together although they sleep on the same bed sometimes (no sex though) and they live as if they were in a romantic relationship. What you said in the second paragraph is exactly what I told him (not as to living together but as to the relationship, that her ideas and his may be different) and he said constantly she never is going to marry (the girl is in her early 20’s), is never going to want a family and is never ever going to be in any other relationship.
 
It would be interesting to find out what, “never having sex” means to him. Some people think doing everything except intercourse is not having sex. We saw that even with a president.

People can rationalize all they want but the truth is the truth. Foreplay is sex.
 
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