Sin while half awake? Lust for spouse?

[D0UBTFIRE]

How embarassing, but I need some advice. There are two issues. First of all, I’m not sure I fully understand what is considered lust within marriage. I’m married, and I reeeally like my husband. So, thinking about being with him sexually is a pleasing thought, yet, I fear it’s sinful …and I just don’t understand what’s okay and what’s not okay. Any insight?

Also, I had a dream and…not sure if I need to confess this because I’m not 100% sure if it’s a mortal sin. Here’s what happened. I was dreaming of the marital act, with my hubby ofcourse, and my alarm went off so I kinda woke up, but not fully - it’s like I kept on dreaming, anyway, eventually I became aware of the dream, and that these were sexual thoughts, and the thought crossed my mind that I shouldn’t be thinking these thoughts, but I blew off that thought (because I thought “this can’t be wrong, I’m thinking about my hubby”) and kept on thinking about my husband…all this happened in the course of what seemed like 20 seconds… Basically what I’m afraid of is that I took pleasure in those thoughts, as brief as they were and I’m not sure if this the sin of lust?

What’s worse though, is that because of that pleasure my body physically reacted (I didn’t intentionally touch myself or anything) and I basically started doing kegel excersices - don’t know what else to call it - out of reaction to those pleasurable thoughts, and before I knew it … I had climaxed. Again, this happened over the course of seconds while I was “waking up” and the climax completely surprised me because I wasn’t masterbating… it was all “mental” basically. I was aware of what was going on, but not fully. Infact my eyes were still closed and it still kinda felt like I was sleeping but at the same time I had some consciousness of the fact that I was not asleep…don’t know how to explain that, sorry. I think this was due to the fact that I was reeeeaally tired and I was only able to nap for an hour so when the alarm went off it didn’t fully wake me up. I was very groggy after I did finally wake up. So, my question is, was that climax a sin? and how do I confess it? I don’t know what people call that? I don’t want to give priest the details! Also, I know that if I had intended on climaxing - whether it had been with the use of my hands or of my mind - that it would probably be considered a mortal sin, but since I wasn’t really intending on it, I just kinda got caught off guard with the dream that I was having as I was waking up and my body sorta just reacted to it… I’m not sure it was even sinful… and thus am also worried about confessing something I’m not guilty of…is that problematic? It’s just so ingrained in my mind that masturbation is a sin that the fact that I climaxed has me convinced I need to go to confession. But the circumstances were so strangely different, and I don’t even know if this would be called masturbation…

Help?

 

[TimothyH]

How embarassing, but I need some advice. There are two issues. First of all, I’m not sure I fully understand what is considered lust within marriage. I’m married, and I reeeally like my husband. So, thinking about being with him sexually is a pleasing thought, yet, I fear it’s sinful …and I just don’t understand what’s okay and what’s not okay. Any insight?

True love is self-giving, self-sacrificing, totally self-less. The perfect example we have of this is the Trinity itself, where God the Father and God the Son give themselves freely to each other, holding nothing back. This is our model.

So the idea of lust is just the opposite - it is not freely giving but is appropriating, taking for selfish reasons.

Sexual attraction is not a sin, especially with your spouse. But Jesus calls us to a higher level of loving than than which has come into the world due to sin, love which is selfish and appropriates another for personal pleasure.

*You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:27-28)*By the way, this was yesterdays Gospel reading.

Jesus is pointing us back to the way it was in the beginning, before sin entered the world, to a way of loving that Adam and Eve had, totally selfless, a sacrificial love where each lived totally for the needs and pleasures of the other. This is the opposite of lust which uses another individual for pleasure. The good news is that Jesus gives us a very real way to get back to that state, or at least strive to.

That’s the best I can tell ya. You gotta evaluate your own situation.

-Tim-

 

[Untruth]

True love is self-giving, self-sacrificing, totally self-less. The perfect example we have of this is the Trinity itself, where God the Father and God the Son give themselves freely to each other, holding nothing back. This is our model.

So the idea of lust is just the opposite - it is not freely giving but is appropriating, taking for selfish reasons.

Sexual attraction is not a sin, especially with your spouse. But Jesus calls us to a higher level of loving than than which has come into the world due to sin, love which is selfish and appropriates another for personal pleasure.

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:27-28)By the way, this was yesterdays Gospel reading.

Jesus is pointing us back to the way it was in the beginning, before sin entered the world, to a way of loving that Adam and Eve had, totally selfless, a sacrificial love where each lived totally for the needs and pleasures of the other. This is the opposite of lust which uses another individual for pleasure. The good news is that Jesus gives us a very real way to get back to that state, or at least strive to.

That’s the best I can tell ya. You gotta evaluate your own situation.

-Tim-

I was reading your post and when I read that quote I was like I hear that recently lol.

 

[D0UBTFIRE]

Sexual attraction is not a sin, especially with your spouse. But Jesus calls us to a higher level of loving than than which has come into the world due to sin, love which is selfish and appropriates another for personal pleasure.

This is very confusing for me. It seems that basically, it’s lustful to have thoughts of my spouse that inspire pleasure in me? But how can I be sexually attracted without those thoughts? Is it a matter of his presence? In other words, is having those thoughts when he’s not around and we’re not engaging in the marital act problematic, but if he is around and we are engaging in the marital act then they are not problematic/sinful thoughts? I always thought of lust as seeing a person as an object. In my dream/thoughts I was not seeing him as an object, but instead us as a couple, … but yes, this technically “approprates another for personal pleasure”… but if the thought of him does not pleasure - then that’s the same as the attraction not being there…I’m so confused!

 

[Dave_B]

This is very confusing for me. It seems that basically, it’s lustful to have thoughts of my spouse that inspire pleasure in me?..

You have nothing to worry about

 

[manualman]

Your post sounds utterly benign to me.

Lust is when it isn’t the PERSON of your spouse that arouses you, but rather the arousal itself that is the object. If he’s just a means of getting you your rocks, you got lust. So is it just his muscles that do it for you or a deeper reality of who he is? Are you still going to feel that way when he grows a gut and sprouts love handles?

Every guy is different, but on behalf of most men out there, next time you wake up aroused… Poke him in the ribs! He’ll be glad to help out!

 

[D0UBTFIRE]

Your post sounds utterly benign to me.

Lust is when it isn’t the PERSON of your spouse that arouses you, but rather the arousal itself that is the object. If he’s just a means of getting you your rocks, you got lust. So is it just his muscles that do it for you or a deeper reality of who he is? Are you still going to feel that way when he grows a gut and sprouts love handles?

Every guy is different, but on behalf of most men out there, next time you wake up aroused… Poke him in the ribs! He’ll be glad to help out!

LOL He wasn’t here, … I’m 35 weeks pregnant so I take lots of naps and have lots of weird dreams! He’s got the love handles, so I don’t think I’m obsessed with physical beauty, but I really find this confusing! The way you define lust, I don’t think it was the case in this particular instance, but I do find that you’re describing what sometimes are my thoughts during the marital act… which is why I asked the question in general, because I haven’t figured out what exactly is sinful when it comes to the marital relationship, in regards to thoughts. Sometimes my thoughts focus more on the arousal itself than the person…or atleast it seems that way - it’s like I focus in on that… but, flat out, I don’t see how my husband and I could have sex if I DIDN’T focus on that…if I don’t focus on the arousal, how could I become aroused??? If I don’t focus, the slightest thing would distract me and well… like I said, it seems like a conundrum. I’m supposed to have sex with my husband - and sexual attraction is not sinful - yet taking pleasure in sexual thoughts can be sinful but I don’t fully understand when they are and when they aren’t…and how is ANY thought supposed to be pleasurable if I’m worrying about whether or not they’re sinful? And how am I supposed to engage in the marital act if I don’t take pleasure in it?

?

 

[manualman]

The pleasure is NOT sinful unless you are simply using him to get it.

Focus on making sure he’s enjoying himself and be gracious in allowing him to return the favor. And feel no guilt about it being incredible for both of you!

 

[D0UBTFIRE]

The pleasure is NOT sinful unless you are simply using him to get it.

Focus on making sure he’s enjoying himself and be gracious in allowing him to return the favor. And feel no guilt about it being incredible for both of you!

I hope you’re right.

What about the other thing I mentioned? Do I need to confess that climax and if so, what do I call that? Mental masturation? Do the kegel excersices take away the mental factor and am I guilty of masturbating even though I didn’t set out to do it?

 

[limabeanerson]

LOL He wasn’t here, … I’m 35 weeks pregnant so I take lots of naps and have lots of weird dreams! He’s got the love handles, so I don’t think I’m obsessed with physical beauty, but I really find this confusing! The way you define lust, I don’t think it was the case in this particular instance, but I do find that you’re describing what sometimes are my thoughts during the marital act… which is why I asked the question in general, because I haven’t figured out what exactly is sinful when it comes to the marital relationship, in regards to thoughts. Sometimes my thoughts focus more on the arousal itself than the person…or atleast it seems that way - it’s like I focus in on that… but, flat out, I don’t see how my husband and I could have sex if I DIDN’T focus on that…if I don’t focus on the arousal, how could I become aroused??? If I don’t focus, the slightest thing would distract me and well… like I said, it seems like a conundrum. I’m supposed to have sex with my husband - and sexual attraction is not sinful - yet taking pleasure in sexual thoughts can be sinful but I don’t fully understand when they are and when they aren’t…and how is ANY thought supposed to be pleasurable if I’m worrying about whether or not they’re sinful? And how am I supposed to engage in the marital act if I don’t take pleasure in it?

?

I’ve had similar questions. IMHO, what happened to you is certainly not a mortal sin. Maybe or maybe not a venial sin but it can’t hurt to confess it next time you are in confession. I’m always somewhat vague on confessing sexual types of sins since I don’t want the priest to be in an awkward situation. Mostly I’d just say something like had impure thoughts or something.

Regarding the above quote, I think its ok to think about your husband and become aroused. When this happens to me and she’s not around I’d just consider it pre-foreplay, lol. I definitely don’t act on any desires or anything like that but maybe just have the thought, acknoledge them maybe make a note to buy my wife flowers on the way home to help those thoughts become actions later

If it were sinful to be aroused at any point other than the marital act then no wife (or husband) could be down in the laundry room and get that feeling and want to run upstairs to his/her spouse. The only time you could ever “do it” would be while you are both together when the mood strikes. How would you plan an intimate night or a weekend away with your husband? From what I’ve read/heard it is your intention that counts (as long as you are not acting sinfully)!

Hope that helps a bit

 

[manualman]

I hope you’re right.

What about the other thing I mentioned? Do I need to confess that …?

Nah, the definition of masturbation includes the word “deliberate.” If it occured while you were asleep or so close to it to have reduced awareness, then you didn’t consent and it wasn’t deliberate. Venial at worst. Offer it up in your next prayers and ask God to help you figure out this crazy sex thing! (me too while you’re at it).

If unintended sleeping time climax counted as masturbation, every teenage boy on earth is going to hell.

 

[Matt_707]

It is an act of self-giving to each other. The question we have to ask is “am giving myself to him or am I looking for what he can give me.”

 

[D0UBTFIRE]

Nah, the definition of masturbation includes the word “deliberate.” If it occured while you were asleep or so close to it to have reduced awareness, then you didn’t consent and it wasn’t deliberate. Venial at worst. Offer it up in your next prayers and ask God to help you figure out this crazy sex thing! (me too while you’re at it).

If unintended sleeping time climax counted as masturbation, every teenage boy on earth is going to hell.

Hmm, thanks. I guess I’ll try to let it go. I was really uncertain, I didn’t even receive communion yesterday out of fear that I wasn’t in a state of grace.

This sex thing is crazy indeed!

 

[Bookcat]

How embarassing, but I need some advice. There are two issues. First of all, I’m not sure I fully understand what is considered lust within marriage. I’m married, and I reeeally like my husband. So, thinking about being with him sexually is a pleasing thought, yet, I fear it’s sinful …and I just don’t understand what’s okay and what’s not okay. Any insight?

Lust in marriage is basically when one makes ones spouse an object…a mere means to an end…that sort of thing.

 

[teachccd]

LOL He wasn’t here, … I’m 35 weeks pregnant so I take lots of naps and have lots of weird dreams! He’s got the love handles, so I don’t think I’m obsessed with physical beauty, but I really find this confusing! The way you define lust, I don’t think it was the case in this particular instance, but I do find that you’re describing what sometimes are my thoughts during the marital act… which is why I asked the question in general, because I haven’t figured out what exactly is sinful when it comes to the marital relationship, in regards to thoughts. Sometimes my thoughts focus more on the arousal itself than the person…or atleast it seems that way - it’s like I focus in on that… but, flat out, I don’t see how my husband and I could have sex if I DIDN’T focus on that…if I don’t focus on the arousal, how could I become aroused??? If I don’t focus, the slightest thing would distract me and well… like I said, it seems like a conundrum. I’m supposed to have sex with my husband - and sexual attraction is not sinful - yet taking pleasure in sexual thoughts can be sinful but I don’t fully understand when they are and when they aren’t…and how is ANY thought supposed to be pleasurable if I’m worrying about whether or not they’re sinful? And how am I supposed to engage in the marital act if I don’t take pleasure in it?

?

You sound like a modern day St. Augustine whereby he thought that the pleasure received during intercourse was sinful. You are really overthinking this almost to the point of scrupulosity. God gave us our sexuality and it is to be used in the context of marriage for unitive and procreative purposes. But this does not mean that we are to dissect every thought and action if they are directed to the purpose of this gift. God gave us some “elbow room” here so that it remains love and not some robotic function.

What happened that morning is probably not a sin but you can just confess it as being impure with thoughts and actions and leave it at that. You know, God already knows everything that He needs to know about you and your situation. Confession is where we acknowledge the forgiveness and mercy of God. It is not where we go and tell Him something that He already doesn’t know. So just mention it and let it go. Keep up the love that you have for your husband and quit analyzing every thought about your love for him. He is so blessed to have someone who loves him so much and so are you.

Peace be with you… teachccd

 

[baltobetsy]

you can just confess it as being impure with thoughts and actions and leave it at that.

Sorry, Teach, I have to disagree with you here. If she takes it to confession, that’s a golden opportunity to describe what happened and ask the priest about it. People are already too much under the impression that you have to use certain words and phrases when they confess and that they have to cover all their bases. Confession should be a very personal encounter not limited by any particular form (other than using the correct form of absolution). It’s an opportunity to speak to Christ in the person of the priest and get an answer back. Let’s not encourage some kind of magical thinking that will hinder a good conversation.

 

[teachccd]

Sorry, Teach, I have to disagree with you here. If she takes it to confession, that’s a golden opportunity to describe what happened and ask the priest about it. People are already too much under the impression that you have to use certain words and phrases when they confess and that they have to cover all their bases. Confession should be a very personal encounter not limited by any particular form (other than using the correct form of absolution). It’s an opportunity to speak to Christ in the person of the priest and get an answer back. Let’s not encourage some kind of magical thinking that will hinder a good conversation.

No, I agree. But if the alternative is that one will not go at all then I would encourage them to at least go and mention it in way that they are comfortable with. I totally agree that we should open ourselves up to a full understanding of what it is that we are doing and to seek proper counsel. But, if I remember correctly, she was embarrassed to do that. I never meant for her to have some magical thinking that will hinder good conversation. But if she doesn’t go (and some here even said that there is no sin and that she shouldn’t go at all) then there is NO conversation at all.

If you follow my posts you will see that I am a HUGE advocate of the Sacrament of Reconciliation. And I take that sacrament very seriously and I avail myself to it very regularly. I was just using a pastoral approach to someone who seems very scrupulous in her understanding of marital relations and is embarrassed to bring it all to the confessional. Yes, ideally everyone on these forums should go to confession and state their issues in detail but that’s why they come here because they have difficulty. So, anyway, while I agree with everything that you said I still hold that it would be better to go and state it as I said than to not go at all.

 

[JAW642]

How embarassing, but I need some advice. There are two issues. First of all, I’m not sure I fully understand what is considered lust within marriage. I’m married, and I reeeally like my husband. So, thinking about being with him sexually is a pleasing thought, yet, I fear it’s sinful …and I just don’t understand what’s okay and what’s not okay. Any insight?

Also, I had a dream and…not sure if I need to confess this because I’m not 100% sure if it’s a mortal sin. Here’s what happened. I was dreaming of the marital act, with my hubby ofcourse, and my alarm went off so I kinda woke up, but not fully - it’s like I kept on dreaming, anyway, eventually I became aware of the dream, and that these were sexual thoughts, and the thought crossed my mind that I shouldn’t be thinking these thoughts, but I blew off that thought (because I thought “this can’t be wrong, I’m thinking about my hubby”) and kept on thinking about my husband…all this happened in the course of what seemed like 20 seconds… Basically what I’m afraid of is that I took pleasure in those thoughts, as brief as they were and I’m not sure if this the sin of lust?

What’s worse though, is that because of that pleasure my body physically reacted (I didn’t intentionally touch myself or anything) and I basically started doing kegel excersices - don’t know what else to call it - out of reaction to those pleasurable thoughts, and before I knew it … I had climaxed. Again, this happened over the course of seconds while I was “waking up” and the climax completely surprised me because I wasn’t masterbating… it was all “mental” basically. I was aware of what was going on, but not fully. Infact my eyes were still closed and it still kinda felt like I was sleeping but at the same time I had some consciousness of the fact that I was not asleep…don’t know how to explain that, sorry. I think this was due to the fact that I was reeeeaally tired and I was only able to nap for an hour so when the alarm went off it didn’t fully wake me up. I was very groggy after I did finally wake up. So, my question is, was that climax a sin? and how do I confess it? I don’t know what people call that? I don’t want to give priest the details! Also, I know that if I had intended on climaxing - whether it had been with the use of my hands or of my mind - that it would probably be considered a mortal sin, but since I wasn’t really intending on it, I just kinda got caught off guard with the dream that I was having as I was waking up and my body sorta just reacted to it… I’m not sure it was even sinful… and thus am also worried about confessing something I’m not guilty of…is that problematic? It’s just so ingrained in my mind that masturbation is a sin that the fact that I climaxed has me convinced I need to go to confession. But the circumstances were so strangely different, and I don’t even know if this would be called masturbation…

Help?

---

DOUBTFIRE,

From the situation that you have described, it sounds very similar to what we Males experience when we have wet dreams. Males have wet dreams ( or nocturnal emissions ), when we have not masturbated ( ejaculated ) or have not had sexual intercourse for a relatively long period of time, also depending upon age. If the wet dream occurs close to our waking up in the morning, then sometimes we can have vivid recollections of the sexual thoughts we were having during the ejaculation in the wet dream. Wet dreams are not sinful in any way, because we do not deliberately intend them, and we do not have full control or full consent over them. Yet wet dreams can be every bit as pleasurable as when we deliberately masturbate and ejaculate. I’m sure that every male would be totally ecstatic if we could experience a wet dream every night or so, without any guilt of sinning.

In my opinion, I do not believe that what happened to you can be classified as mortal sin, or as sinful at all. You did not fully and deliberately intended for this to happen. You were not fully awake, and therefore you could not have given full consent.

---

DOUBTFIRE,

Please read my answer to Jesus4ever below. He is a male, but I believe this answer also can hold true for females.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7377131#post7377131

---

From JAW642 on 02/15/2011

---

 

[girl]

---

Wet dreams are not sinful in any way, because we do not deliberately intend them, and we do not have full control or full consent over them. Yet wet dreams can be every bit as pleasurable as when we deliberately masturbate and ejaculate. I’m sure that every male would be totally ecstatic if we could experience a wet dream every night or so, without any guilt of sinning.​

Is this true? I thought that monastic traditions put a lot of thought into preventing wet dreams precisely because they were regarded as venially sinful. Also, they’re not all dreams – sometimes they’re terrible nightmares.