sin?

[lesli]

Ok, Married couple with children trying to avoid pregnancy using nfp(for well discerned reasons). Husband supporting wife in belief re nfp but although Catholic himself does it more for her than for his own faith. At Ov time they get a bit ‘involved’. to the point where the wife accidently husband doesn’t though and they stop, partly because the wife is able to come to her senses and remember that now really isn’t a good time for another baby. Wife is really the only one of the two that understands (or comes close to understanding) why it was wrong to have even started when there was no finishing but husband is quite detirmined to push them both to their limits. Did the wife commit a sin? Was the fact she grounds for mortal sin even though she was trying hard not to?

 

[YinYangMom]

Have the couple go to confession and ask the advice of their priest as to what to do next time.

I remember one nfp practicing poster said she and her husband actually prayed by the side of the bed each time they were ‘in the mood’ - just to remind themselves to consider God’s will in their love for each other.
I always thought that was a lovely practice.
If the nfp timing was ‘clear’ then after praying about it they’d be able to fully enjoy their union.
If the nfp timing wasn’t ‘clear’ then just taking the time to pray about what was about to take place either gave them the resolve to hold off another day or allowed them to be open to life which may result from that particular union, should it be God’s will.

After confession, I’d strongly recommend this couple of yours do more praying together. It sounds like the couple is using nfp as a way to avoid pregnancy rather than as a way to strengthen their marriage and discern God’s will for them with regard to whether or not they are called to parenthood and if so, to how many children. Perhaps a refresher course on Theology of the Body and/or NFP would be helpful too.

 

[Dr.Colossus]

Reaching a climax (I assume that’s what you mean by ) unintentionally is not sinful. However, engaging in actions that are specifically intended to prepare for sexual intercourse (i.e. foreplay)–which can result in climax–without the intention to complete the marital act is sinful, as it amounts basically to mutual masturbation.

 

[JPIIFan]

There’s nothing wrong with stopping an act of sexual intercourse, as long as you originally intended to go through with it. It’s only when you intentionally engage in activity exclusive to the context of an act of sexual intercourse without ever intending to complete the act that it’s sinful.

So, no, this isn’t a sin. Starting an act of sexual intercourse doesn’t put you under some special moral obligation to complete it.

 

[lesli]

.Ok thanks, I am speaking of myself and my husband, we have 11 children already and as I stated we are pretty certain we are not called to have any more

Have the couple go to confession and ask the advice of their priest as to what to do next time.

I remember one nfp practicing poster said she and her husband actually prayed by the side of the bed each time they were ‘in the mood’ - just to remind themselves to consider God’s will in their love for each other.
I always thought that was a lovely practice.
If the nfp timing was ‘clear’ then after praying about it they’d be able to fully enjoy their union.
If the nfp timing wasn’t ‘clear’ then just taking the time to pray about what was about to take place either gave them the resolve to hold off another day or allowed them to be open to life which may result from that particular union, should it be God’s will.

After confession, I’d strongly recommend this couple of yours do more praying together. It sounds like the couple is using nfp as a way to avoid pregnancy rather than as a way to strengthen their marriage and discern God’s will for them with regard to whether or not they are called to parenthood and if so, to how many children. Perhaps a refresher course on Theology of the Body and/or NFP would be helpful too.

Husband doesn’t go to confession, I do but the time I asked about it the priest(a great orthodox priest) didn’t seem to understand what I meant, he said that as long as the act was completed properly on my husbands part or not at all then we hadn’t sinned. Your description of the couple who prayed together makes me cry. I would so love it if my dh would pray with me, as I said he supports me in my beliefs but doesn’t try to understand and won’t read or listen to talks etc to help him. He says that religion is my thing not his.

However, engaging in actions that are specifically intended to prepare for sexual intercourse (i.e. foreplay)–which can result in climax–without the intention to complete the marital act is sinful, as it amounts basically to mutual masturbation

There’s nothing wrong with stopping an act of sexual intercourse, as long as you originally intended to go through with it. It’s only when you intentionally engage in activity exclusive to the context of an act of sexual intercourse without ever intending to complete the act that it’s sinful.

From what you two have said we did sin or at least I did. we didn’t have the intention of finishing the act. we are trying to avoid pregnancy and although we got carried away and at times thought of throwing caution to the winds we were not intending to finish. If I hadn’t first we may well have finished together but as I said I was able to be sensible after that. My dh is heroic I think in his acceptance of this without understanding the faith, but at the same time it means that he doesn’t understand why he shouldn’t start and even when I try to dissuade him he keeps at it. so unless I am downright horrible to him, or sleep in another bed we often end up in scenarios such as I am speaking of.

Lesli

.

 

[JPIIFan]

Lesli,

One thing you might consider, and it was mentioned above, is to pray with your husband whenever you are tempted to engage in sexual acts outside the context of intercourse. Prayer is very powerful and God wants us to pray in situations like these. If you do this, you certainly wouldn’t need to sleep in separate beds or anything. That said, I do know at least one couple that sleeps separately when using NFP, since they find the temptation too great. It would depend, of course, on what the couple thought they could handle. It seems extreme, but we’re at a war for our souls here. Sometimes extreme means are necessary.

Don’t forget also that an “out of your senses” is still an intention. Even if in the heat of passion, you formed an intention, there is no sin in changing that intention later when you regain your senses.

If even your out-of-senses intention was never to complete the act, then just go to confession and you’ll be fine. No one ever said this was going to be easy .

You can’t force your husband to go to confession, but you can pray for him. With your own witness of going to confession and prayer, he may come around. Give him time.

 

[setter]

lesli:

From what you two have said we did sin or at least I did. we didn’t have the intention of finishing the act. we are trying to avoid pregnancy and although we got carried away and at times thought of throwing caution to the winds we were not intending to finish. If I hadn’t first we may well have finished together but as I said I was able to be sensible after that. My dh is heroic I think in his acceptance of this without understanding the faith, but at the same time it means that he doesn’t understand why he shouldn’t start and even when I try to dissuade him he keeps at it. so unless I am downright horrible to him, or sleep in another bed we often end up in scenarios such as I am speaking of.

Lesli

I offer some tough questions for your to consider, while avoiding any impression of judgment or presumption about the challenge or particulars of your situation:

Is this a respect issue? Does DH respect your values and beliefs? Are you the sole one responsible to setting and imposing prudent limits to avoid orgasm apart from intercourse? How much are the consequences of not pleasing your spouse making you an unwilling participant in starting something that you have no intent of properly completing?

It sounds like a greater clarity, maturity and respect is needed in your situation.

 

[wcknight]

lesli:

.Ok thanks, I am speaking of myself and my husband, we have 11 children already and as I stated we are pretty certain we are not called to have any more

.

11 kids already !!! :bigyikes:

Lesli, you and your DH have already done ALL your time in Purgatory here on earth !!! Your applications for sainthood should already be signed, sealed, and delivered, if not express mailed.

 

[JimCalvin]

Lesli,

11 kids! I come from a family of 10 kids. I wouldn’t trade it for the world. What a blessing for you and your offspring! My parents sacrificed so much for us and for the Way.

I admire you. Despite the fact that “be not afraid” is mentioned about 500 times in the NT, my wife and I cannot get past two, albeit WONDERFUL, children. That is a source of sadness.

I hope you and your husband enjoy each other FULLY in the complete blessing of our Lord and His Church. You’ve both earned it.

And whether you have doubts or not, our sacrament of reconciliation is a beautiful gift to partake of at any time.

May God bless you and heap blessing upon your family.

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

As a practical matter, during phase II, I usually sleep on the couch.

It usually avoids these sort of dicey situations.

Usually.

 

[johnq]

11 kids already !!! :bigyikes:

11 kids already !!! :clapping:

I am sure you didn’t mean it, but the :bigyikes: in that situation could easily come across as having a negative connotation.

 

[Lorarose]

It sounds like you and your husband still have a healthy attraction to each other. After 11 kids you two are still frisky. That is a blessing and isn’t something to be ashamed of.

Women’s bodies are wired to be more amorous during fertile times…and the men who love us definitely pick up on that.

I have a hard time with the notion that “slipping up” like this is a grave matter or that it means there is something wrong with you two.

 

[setter]

It sounds like you and your husband still have a healthy attraction to each other. After 11 kids you two are still frisky. That is a blessing and isn’t something to be ashamed of.

Women’s bodies are wired to be more amorous during fertile times…and the men who love us definitely pick up on that.

I have a hard time with the notion that “slipping up” like this is a grave matter or that it means there is something wrong with you two.

It should be an issue of conscience if the couple is failing to exercise appropriate wisdom, prudence and maturity by “setting themselves up” to “slipping up” in committing grave offense.