since the Bible is the Word of God it is all we need...

[benhur]

I was merely contrasting the founder of Jesus’ church (which is Jesus, the God-Man) with the founders of man-made churches (all of whom are sinners). Everyone agrees that Jesus Christ established one church because he said: “I will build my church” not - I will build my churches. Benhur, shouldn’t we all want to locate and belong to the one church founded by Jesus circa AD 33 in Jerusalem on Pentecost to which the apostles, Peter and Paul belonged, once we have determined where that one church is, in the world today? Or should we just be content with churches we know were founded by mere sinful men and woman?

So when the trumpet blows only Catholic ecclessia will be caught up in the air to meet Him? When the saints go marching in, will it be only Catholic ecclessia. The point is while ecclesia has offices and “organization” ,it is also a "people’ a called out people,in new birth. So while our organization may not be yours, our calling is from the Lord, as is everyone who is in the Body.and the Body is quite organized.

 

[benhur]

So, we agree that God can infallibly guide the fallible successors such as Luke and Mark - right? OK, cool. Why couldn’t God continue to do the same for the successors of Luke and Mark?

So once right always right for 2000 years and counting ?

Because I said so. LOL… Seriously though - because, unlike OT Israel, Jesus promised to guide His one church into all truth, forever

.
So Jesus did not guide Israel, covenant with them, made promises to them ?

 

[joe371]

So once right always right for 2000 years and counting ?
.
So Jesus did not guide Israel, covenant with them, made promises to them ?

If God is guiding His church, then a resounding yes. It seems you might believe that God, within His church, only preserved doctrinal truth for a few generations? Surely every generation deserves the certainty of truth as well i.e. surely God made sure that every generation has access to truth - agreed? We have Jesus’ promise of perpetuity within the pages of scripture as well, in terms of doctrinal truth.

Whether Jesus did or did not guide Israel, is irrelevant to the promises made vis-a-vis His church. Where, within scripture, did God promise to guide the OT Israel into all truth? Perhaps I overlooked the authoritative source?

 

[joe371]

So once right always right for 2000 years and counting ?
.

I do not believe the Catholic Church is right about anything, based solely on fallible leaders, such as the apostles and their successors etc. etc…God gets all the credit.

 

[Abu]

joe371 #816
I do not believe the Catholic Church is right about anything, based solely on fallible leaders, such as the apostles and their successors etc. etc…God gets all the credit.

Incorrect.

There are no fallible Popes or Ecumenical Councils when teaching the whole Church on dogma and doctrine on faith or morals to be held by all.

 

[benhur]

I do not believe the Catholic Church is right about anything, based solely on fallible leaders, such as the apostles and their successors etc. etc…God gets all the credit.

Is that a personal conviction, even a personal illumination and is that like everybody else who believe their church is inspired, and their church believes,teaches it is also ?

 

[benhur]

If God is guiding His church, then a resounding yes. It seems you might believe that God, within His church, only preserved doctrinal truth for a few generations? Surely every generation deserves the certainty of truth as well i.e. surely God made sure that every generation has access to truth - agreed? We have Jesus’ promise of perpetuity within the pages of scripture as well, in terms of doctrinal truth.

Whether Jesus did or did not guide Israel, is irrelevant to the promises made vis-a-vis His church. Where, within scripture, did God promise to guide the OT Israel into all truth? Perhaps I overlooked the authoritative source?

Joe.I think we can glean much from the OT for it was fulfilled perfectly, as will ours. We just differ on what perfect means.We just feel our church is the promise of that and the other churches are not, in some areas/doctrines.

Did Christ give the Jews untruths ? The truth He gave them did they retain it though not perfectly, by some or many ? Does that signify failure on part of the Lord ? Did he ever stop guiding them ? Was there not always a remnant during troubled times?

I understand your objection to any inference that the Lord would allow such freedom to actually error, even if for a time. But just as Israel had voices of correction that sometimes went unheeded, I think the status quo church has done the same. It would be one thing for someone out of the blue to say maybe transubstantiation is the wrong explanation, or no to Peter’s supreme authoritative chair , or no to the immaculate conception. But it is another to see such things were said way before the reformation, by some and maybe only a few Catholics (not heretics, yet).

But back to the same old thing, you didn’t listen to us, and we didn’t listen to you.

Blessings

 

[mlz]

So when the trumpet blows only Catholic ecclessia will be caught up in the air to meet Him? When the saints go marching in, will it be only Catholic ecclessia. The point is while ecclesia has offices and “organization” ,it is also a "people’ a called out people,in new birth. So while our organization may not be yours, our calling is from the Lord, as is everyone who is in the Body.and the Body is quite organized.

Salvation is a different topic - i honestly don’t think he was referring to that in his response…?? I think his point was that Christ established one Church- not many.
Blessings in Him,
mlz

 

[Michael_Francis]

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***Many posts deleted as off topic.

Please return to the topic of ****** since the Bible is the Word of God it is all we need** which is about nothing more than the Sola Scriptura.*

 

[PRmerger]

why (Edited) should we? so you can once again get off to tearing down the stupid hellbound protestant heretics?

Any Catholic who tells you you’re condemned to hell is acting contrary to the teachings of Catholicism…no Catholic has the omniscience to know who’s destined for hell. And you should tell this Catholic this.

It is amusing to think of a non-Catholic telling a Catholic that he’s actually doing something contrary to Catholicism.

the answer to your question is staring you in the mirror. you’re not going to turn us catholic with the constant triumphalism, exclusionism, belittling, mocking and downright hatred of our deepest-held beliefs that infects this forum. all you’re doing is attempting to murder our faith.

True that mocking, belittling, triumphalism are not good apologetics technique…but we are indeed commanded to share the Truth of the kerygma with you.

Just like Priscilla and Aquila did with Apollos–you, like Apollos, are in need of some gentle correction, despite your zeal and vigor for the Lord.