Unfortunately, the Orthodox believe that the RCC broke away from them and in the schism, that the RCC introduced heterodoxical elements into the faith. So they don’t see it as two sides of the same coin: they see one gold coin, and that is Orthodoxy.
“to the chair of Peter and to the principal church [at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its source.” It is interesting that Cyprian distinguishes between the chair of Peter and the principal church [at Rome]. Elsewhere, St. Cyprian identifies the chair of Peter with the entire episcopate. Rome was a great center of unity in the West; it was the major Patriarchate of the West, including Northern Africa.
But that would be entirely circular. Sacerdotal unity has right faith as its source? But how is one to know what the right faith is, other than appealing to the Apostolic Succession, which has right faith as its source?
Were they sending letters to two different places?
Poppycock! Rome does not hold the copywrite on St Peter.
What do you mean by this comment?
Yes.
No. Every bishop is a successor of Peter and the Apostles. But the Church of Rome does have a copyright on Peter’s special place among the Apostles.
It was a reference to Irenaeus; I thought you would recognise it. He says that all churches must agree with the church at Rome due to its superior origin.
Exactly!
Explain.
Certainly Rome was the pre-eminent Church at that time. Later it was Constantinople. So then all must agree with Constantinople too.
Would you then abandon all of canon law? Should it be permissible for a priest to confect the Eucharist in the TV room because he’s bored with what’s on? Should we let people marry at a racy nightclub because they think a church is too stodgy? Should we let bishops dispense with the rigorous requirements for those seeking Holy Orders?
Ok for the sake of diplomacy lets say ‘one gold coin and one copper penny/cent’ * , why cannot the two sides with their respective canon lawyers sit down and find an amicable way forward?
*What about if in a few decades time super-intelligent computers ‘maintain the faith - by choice!’ Do we then say ‘oh thats ok because they have made a moral choice so they are all equal but St Peter resides in the Apple Mac!’
Because the RCC will not budge one tiny bit on any of the issues that the Orthodox say are preventing the reunion.
**I think God has a different perspective on it. If a sacrament is valid, it is valid, period. It’s up to us to “work it out”, and, as I said, the Church could be united in a matter of minutes if those that ‘be’ - the Orthodox patriarchs and Rome - get their act together and stop this infantile historical blame game.
*True. So you disagree that there should be any rules relating to the celebration of the sacraments?
peary:
*It is indeed valid, but I don’t think you could call it the Sacrifice of the Mass if there is no mass.
peary:
I disagree. No rule will ever be perfect, but the absence of rules, which you seem to be advocating, would certainly invite many more, and more serious tragedies than we have recently seen.
Catholics accept the Eastern Orthodox Church as having valid Sacraments. However, there are serious theological differences and Rome refuses to accept what the Eastern Orthodox are apparently asking for.
I don’t think it’s a matter of refusal but more of the fact that the western Church has “moved on” whereas the Orthodox churches have, for the most part, remained in the same mode and have not developed theologically for over a thousand years. The main theological difference seems to be the role of the papacy in the unity of the Church. They seemed to have resolved the filioque problem already. I also think there is still much prejudice on the side of the Orthodox churches (the Greek and Russian being the most prejudicial) with regard to everything ‘Latin’. Those are the two barriers I see barring further unity.
The problem here is if you look at the Anglican Church were a few of their priests have been ordained validly by the Old Catholic Church or by the Eastern Orthodox. The Anglican Church is a mish mash of heretical concepts and practices and even the highest Anglican is likely to reject the Churches teaching on our Lady (but will accept that she intercedes for us), won’t accept the Pope and doesn’t believe in the Sacrament of confession. Although the Sacraments might be valid would you really accept the Eucharist from a Church that teaches wrong faith and heresy?
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