Since we're so right

[Layp3rs0n]

There is possibly no way I can ask this without sounding like an intolerant oaf so here goes:

     I have been dealing with losing an apartment and looking for a new place to rent. After looking high and low for one I could afford I by a miracle found out that a friend from my parish has a room for rent. Great! Now we can go to Mass together. My mother calls and I tell her the good news and she is thrilled! "I have been praying for you to be able to rent from somene from your church. That's God at work!" she says happily. 
    Now this unnerves me. You see my mother is an excommunicated Catholic. She now has an active prayer life in the Methodist "ecclesial community". This isn't  the first time this happened. Last spring she and her women's prayer group prayed that I get a car...and My parish had one donated but the priests already had cars so I got the donated one. Yes i'm VERY thankful for this, but how is this happening? They do not have the Real Presence in the Eucharist, they have improper rites (I baptize you in the name of the "mother-father"), and so on. I am Catholic and I don't see prayers answered so frequently. They have a photo of their parish and Christ appeared in the window of the building. The evidently have the Spirit working in their community, but I am confused. If we are so right why don't we Catholics see these sorts of things more frequently? At least I don't. ( I KNOW I sound like a jerk)

 

[whatevergirl]

There is possibly no way I can ask this without sounding like an intolerant oaf so here goes:

     I have been dealing with losing an apartment and looking for a new place to rent. After looking high and low for one I could afford I by a miracle found out that a friend from my parish has a room for rent. Great! Now we can go to Mass together. My mother calls and I tell her the good news and she is thrilled! "I have been praying for you to be able to rent from somene from your church. That's God at work!" she says happily. 
    Now this unnerves me. You see my mother is an excommunicated Catholic. She now has an active prayer life in the Methodist "ecclesial community". This isn't  the first time this happened. Last spring she and her women's prayer group prayed that I get a car...and My parish had one donated but the priests already had cars so I got the donated one. Yes i'm VERY thankful for this, but how is this happening? They do not have the Real Presence in the Eucharist, they have improper rites (I baptize you in the name of the "mother-father"), and so on. I am Catholic and I don't see prayers answered so frequently. They have a photo of their parish and Christ appeared in the window of the building. The evidently have the Spirit working in their community, but I am confused. If we are so right why don't we Catholics see these sorts of things more frequently? At least I don't. ( I KNOW I sound like a jerk)

Well, anyone can pray to God. Not just Catholics. He hears all of our prayers, not just those who are part of the Church, and He blesses people according to what He might feel they need too.

You don’t sound like a jerk, just questioning. That’s all. I would be thankful for the prayers, and pray for her that she comes back to the fullness of the faith. How I have always viewed the Church, is two ways: a) The RCC always takes the high moral ground when faced with changes in society etc…and b) The RCC offers the fullness of the faith–not a ‘better’ faith,’ but it doesn’t lack like other faiths. Your mom has the ability to pray and seek God for guidance, answers to prayers, etc just like the rest of us, but her newfound church lacks the fullness of ALL of the blessings, and graces bestowed upon Christ’s Church, being the RCC. So, I don’t look at it like ‘we are so right,’ as much as ‘Catholics have access to the fullness of the faith,’ where other faiths don’t.

Hope that helps–and congrats on the great things happening from the power of prayers.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Sometimes God also answers the prayers of those with less a little clearer because they need it…

I don’t see anything wrong with God answering yours and your mothers’ prayers. He is thrilled to hear from either of you.

 

[whatevergirl]

Sometimes God also answers the prayers of those with less a little clearer because they need it…

I don’t see anything wrong with God answering yours and your mothers’ prayers. He is thrilled to hear from either of you.

amen!

 

[1ke]

You are so sure that God “answered” their prayers and gave you this apartment and car. That could be, but it also could be your OWN prayers-- or no one’s. Certainly supernatural intervention occurs, but also rooms come up for rent and such without God’s intervention.

They are quick to claim responsibility for the things that did happen in your life-- but what about all the prayers that weren’t answered? Do they claim those too?

And YOU seem overly ready to lay everything at the feet of these ladies’ prayers rather than your own initiative, prayer, and actions. You were in the right place at the right time because you faithfully attend Church and are known in your parish.

Of course God can hear the prayers of all, but don’t put too much stock in this “pray it, claim it” it mentality. God isn’t a magical ATM machine.

And, as to Christ images appearing in their window-- puleez. This is like the Virgin Mary peanut butter sandwich-- active imaginations.

 

[joeybaggz]

No, you don’t sound like a jerk. But it does sound like your perception of God has Him in a sort of corrall. Open the gate and let Him out. It’s foolish, (and probably counterproductive to the growth of faith and understanding) to try to put any limit on the grace of God.

My two cents.

 

[jmcrae]

I know how you feel.

My Dad hates the Catholic Church, and hasn’t darkened the door of his own church since 1975, but God waits upon him hand and foot - anything he wants from God, he gets. He’s not even a “good person” by any ordinary definition of that term, other than the fact that he doesn’t make too much of a spectacle of himself in public, so I can’t even attribute it to the idea that he’s a “righteous pagan.”

I don’t have any explanation for this; I’m just sympathizing.

 

[1ke]

but God waits upon him hand and foot - anything he wants from God, he gets.

Hmmm… there seem to be a lot of people here who have been influenced by the (heretical) health & wealth gospel.

God is not a magical ATM machine and the prosperity gospel is heresy.

 

[jmcrae]

Hmmm… there seem to be a lot of people here who have been influenced by the (heretical) health & wealth gospel.

God is not a magical ATM machine and the prosperity gospel is heresy.

I realize that, of course.

And probably the reason God does favours for unbelievers is so that they will come to believe. The rest of us already believe; we don’t need proof.

It’s just funny to see it worked out in real life, that’s all.

 

[rpp]

I know how you feel.

My Dad hates the Catholic Church, and hasn’t darkened the door of his own church since 1975, but God waits upon him hand and foot - anything he wants from God, he gets. He’s not even a “good person” by any ordinary definition of that term, other than the fact that he doesn’t make too much of a spectacle of himself in public, so I can’t even attribute it to the idea that he’s a “righteous pagan.”

I don’t have any explanation for this; I’m just sympathizing.

Hmmm… there seem to be a lot of people here who have been influenced by the (heretical) health & wealth gospel.

God is not a magical ATM machine and the prosperity gospel is heresy.

First, let me say I like both of you.

1ke, I do not think that is what jmcrae was saying or implying she supported the health and wealth heresy. Your closing statement is correct.

Rather I believe what she was was observing is the often disturbing trend that good and faithful people often seem to struggle while those who are not faithful often seem to do well.

I myself have actually lived this pattern. Before my conversion from atheism, I was financially quite well off and life was stable. Since my confirmation in 2005, my wife divorced me, fled the country and took, with the aid of the divorce court, pretty much everything I had. Then my son’s college bills comes along. Then my elderly parents move in with me. Then my father passes away. While all this is happening, my knee gives out twice, requiring me to have surgery in 2006, and again this coming July. The only bright spot here is that the Church granted me an annulment.

Yet I remain faithful to God and know that these adversities only help make me stronger as I offer them up to God.

I agree that the health-and-wealth gospel is heretical. Yet these things situations often makes a person wonder if the exact opposite is true.

 

[ForwardProgress]

In Matthew, isn’t there a parable where Jesus pays the worker who works a full day, and a worker who just works a short day the same wage?

 

[1ke]

First, let me say I like both of you.

1ke, I do not think that is what jmcrae was saying or implying she supported the health and wealth heresy.

I didn’t think she was *supporting *it, but it does seem to show an influence in the way we think about God, prosperity, and adversity.

Rather I believe what she was was observing is the often disturbing trend that good and faithful people often seem to struggle while those who are not faithful often seem to do well.

I wouldn’t say I agree with this premise, but let’s go with it. The premise in no way supports the conclusion that God is actively *causing *these things to happen or not happen.

I myself have actually lived this pattern. Before my conversion from atheism, I was financially quite well off and life was stable.

Did God *create *this situation?

Since my confirmation in 2005, my wife divorced me, fled the country and took, with the aid of the divorce court, pretty much everything I had. Then my son’s college bills comes along. Then my elderly parents move in with me. Then my father passes away. While all this is happening, my knee gives out twice, requiring me to have surgery in 2006, and again this coming July.

Again, did God *make *this happen?

The only bright spot here is that the Church granted me an annulment.

Only?

Yet I remain faithful to God and know that these adversities only help make me stronger as I offer them up to God.

And praise and thanksgiving for that! I am not trying to dismiss the very real struggles you encountered as a result of embracing God. But, there is a difference between embracing adversity and believing God caused it. Same thing with the difference between recognizing God’s sovereignty and being thankful for the talents we have tha help us achieve and believing God directly caused/willed financial/materials benefits to come our way.

I agree that the health-and-wealth gospel is heretical. Yet these things situations often makes a person wonder if the exact opposite is true.

Well, yes, it can. But, that also presumes that material possessions are the pearl of great price instead of Heaven. Health-and-wealth misses the point of Salvation: to be in Heaven, not to be rich.

 

[GraceDK]

There is possibly no way I can ask this without sounding like an intolerant oaf so here goes:

     I have been dealing with losing an apartment and looking for a new place to rent. After looking high and low for one I could afford I by a miracle found out that a friend from my parish has a room for rent. Great! Now we can go to Mass together. My mother calls and I tell her the good news and she is thrilled! "I have been praying for you to be able to rent from somene from your church. That's God at work!" she says happily. 
    Now this unnerves me. You see my mother is an excommunicated Catholic. She now has an active prayer life in the Methodist "ecclesial community". This isn't  the first time this happened. Last spring she and her women's prayer group prayed that I get a car...and My parish had one donated but the priests already had cars so I got the donated one. Yes i'm VERY thankful for this, but how is this happening? They do not have the Real Presence in the Eucharist, they have improper rites (I baptize you in the name of the "mother-father"), and so on. I am Catholic and I don't see prayers answered so frequently. They have a photo of their parish and Christ appeared in the window of the building. The evidently have the Spirit working in their community, but I am confused. If we are so right why don't we Catholics see these sorts of things more frequently? At least I don't. ( I KNOW I sound like a jerk)

No Lay… YOU ARE NOT SOUNDING LIKE A JERK!!!
Oh Halleluja… the Lord is GOOD! And I am happy… and you are probably sulking and asking why? The answer is …
because I think the Holy Spirit is planting thirst in your heart… thirst to see more of His Power in action.
Its Pentecost time brother… and thirst is the first thing you need in order to ask for living water and get full of that water.
Just like you cant get saved unless you acknowlege your need of Salvation first

Do you know your Bible? I think you do… there its written plenty what Jesus said about those who cure in His name but who does not walk with the apostles. He said: “leave them in peace, for those who are not against Me are with Me.”

Its written about David Wilkerson, a Pentescostal man, that he got convicted in his heart by his numeous sins… He accepted Jesus as Saviour and started reading the Bible two hours a day… (and he later blamed everything that happend on those two hours a day) then he heard the Holy Spirit call him: “go to New York …” You probably know the story: David Wilkerson went to New York and preached and ministered to a bunch of murderers and criminals and they became disciples… a great bunch of them…

David did not have the Real Presence… but he had the Holy Spirit. You see the RCC teaches that the Holy Spirit is not limited to the Sacraments. He works everywhere in the hearts of believers… too in the Methodist Church. And if they pray and fast and have more love and fellowship then we as Catholics… then they bring forth the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Then what shall we do? Should we blame them or look at our selves… someone said: when you point a finger you have three pointing backwards at your self. Did the people in your parish repent from their sins? do they, in love, show an example to the world of a renewed life in Christ? Do they walk in the mighty deeds of the Holy Spirit and believe that Jesus is the same today, yesterday and always, as the Bible says?
You see, if your parish is apostolic in everything then you will soon have more great signs there than you ever saw in your mother’s church.
God has no favourites… But He is looking for people to get serious about Him.

First, you gotta want more! See, many Catholics say “we got the Real Presence so we dont need anything else… We got the right liturgy… We dont need anyone to teach us anything.” but thats WRONG… humility and repentance leads to becoming channels of power and grace to the whole world.

Be happy that God is doing great works in your mother’s church. Praise God with her and watch and learn…

Why did Jesus chose Saul and make him into Paul? Because Saul was a man of action and passion…

Peace

 

[rpp]

I didn’t think she was *supporting *it, but it does seem to show an influence in the way we think about God, prosperity, and adversity.

It was a common belief among Old Testament Jews, that God brought bad things down on the “wicked” and rewarded the faithful. I am not saying this is accurate or what happens, but that it was a common belief.

I wouldn’t say I agree with this premise, but let’s go with it. The premise in no way supports the conclusion that God is actively *causing *these things to happen or not happen.

Did God *create *this situation?

Again, did God *make *this happen?

The short answer is "No, God did not create or bring about these situations directly.

Only?

Okay, other good things happened as well, like my son graduating with honors and my mother’s health improving and a number of other things.(But receiving an annulment is actually bittersweet.) Sorry, I did not mean to exaggerate. (It is kind of hard to sum up three years in one paragraph.)

And praise and thanksgiving for that! I am not trying to dismiss the very real struggles you encountered as a result of embracing God. But, there is a difference between embracing adversity and believing God caused it. Same thing with the difference between recognizing God’s sovereignty and being thankful for the talents we have tha help us achieve and believing God directly caused/willed financial/materials benefits to come our way.

Personally, I believe that God has a will and an overall plan for each of us. Parts of that plan involve having us become stronger and wiser. Other parts of that plan involve us helping others. There are so many way in which people can grow string and help one another. There are many gifts and crosses that the Lord gives us and permits us to have.

I take responsibility for my own life. I praise and thank God for the comfort He gives me with the my struggles and difficulties. I thank Him for the gifts that He has given me and hope to use those gifts, whatever they may be, in His service.

Well, yes, it can. But, that also presumes that material possessions are the pearl of great price instead of Heaven. Health-and-wealth misses the point of Salvation: to be in Heaven, not to be rich.

I think we are really saying the same thing. We agree but are stating our position in a different style. I am using an example to defeat the idea of "health-and-wealth). You are using a more logical approach. I am sorry that my example implied that I held to the corollary of that heresy that God is the cause for all the struggles in life. The feel that way a person may as well blame God for the sins he or she commits, abdicating all responsibility.

In closing, I would like to say that the riches God promises the faithful are eternal life and eternal union and communion with Him. That is so unimaginably great, that nothing else can compare.

 

[lagin]

I’d like to throw in my 2 cents worth, here. My husband and I have been married for 36 years and during those 36 years, he’s been laid off 13 times. You do the math.

Looking back on our past history, I see God using it to teach us a simple lesson in TRUST. Over the years we’ve come to realize that God does provide for our needs, as He identifies them, when we trust in Him and allow Him to work His Will.

There have been times when a bill came due and we didn’t have the money. Suddenly, a check shows up in the mail - overage in an escrow account or whatever and it’s just about enough to make the payment. Or in the case of Ed’s car, which was close to 20 years old and literally falling apart: someone sold him their newer van for $1.

God does answer prayer and God wants us to TRUST in His Providence. It doesn’t matter who we are or to what Church we belong, we are all His dear children and He loves us.

God bless.

 

[whatevergirl]

I’d like to throw in my 2 cents worth, here. My husband and I have been married for 36 years and during those 36 years, he’s been laid off 13 times. You do the math.

Looking back on our past history, I see God using it to teach us a simple lesson in TRUST. Over the years we’ve come to realize that God does provide for our needs, as He identifies them, when we trust in Him and allow Him to work His Will.

There have been times when a bill came due and we didn’t have the money. Suddenly, a check shows up in the mail - overage in an escrow account or whatever and it’s just about enough to make the payment. Or in the case of Ed’s car, which was close to 20 years old and literally falling apart: someone sold him their newer van for $1.

God does answer prayer and God wants us to TRUST in His Providence. It doesn’t matter who we are or to what Church we belong, we are all His dear children and He loves us.

God bless.

thank you for sharing this–it uplifted me today.

 

[Mystic_of_God]

There is possibly no way I can ask this without sounding like an intolerant oaf so here goes:

     I have been dealing with losing an apartment and looking for a new place to rent. After looking high and low for one I could afford I by a miracle found out that a friend from my parish has a room for rent. Great! Now we can go to Mass together. My mother calls and I tell her the good news and she is thrilled! "I have been praying for you to be able to rent from somene from your church. That's God at work!" she says happily. 
    Now this unnerves me. You see my mother is an excommunicated Catholic. She now has an active prayer life in the Methodist "ecclesial community". This isn't  the first time this happened. Last spring she and her women's prayer group prayed that I get a car...and My parish had one donated but the priests already had cars so I got the donated one. Yes i'm VERY thankful for this, but how is this happening? They do not have the Real Presence in the Eucharist, they have improper rites (I baptize you in the name of the "mother-father"), and so on. I am Catholic and I don't see prayers answered so frequently. They have a photo of their parish and Christ appeared in the window of the building. The evidently have the Spirit working in their community, but I am confused. If we are so right why don't we Catholics see these sorts of things more frequently? At least I don't. ( I KNOW I sound like a jerk)

It also rains on athiest farmers. Just sayin’

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Is all human suffering meritorius? I don’t think so.
Is human suffering offered up to the cross of Christ meritorious? Yes. I believe it brings graces to sinners (us)

Who suffers who has been taught the meritorious nature of offering it up, so they can bring down graces from God?

Catholics

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=208810

 

[Howl]

There is a Zen saying, “Ten thousand formations, one suchness.” Though you and your Mother may subscribe to slightly different formations, you are still dealing with the same suchness.

 

[Johndigger]

Well…if we’re comparing miracles…

Your Mother’s religion gives you a car.

Your own religion gives you Christ crucified and the forgiveness of your sins.

You’re not a jerk, by any means. But it does seem a bit of a no-brainer about which religion is better…

JD