Since when did the Bible praise Intelligence?

[Blade_and_Blood]

The Forbidden Tree of Knowlegde of Good and Evil was the tree that gave Adam and Eve the original sin. When you really read that particular story, a hidden message seems to be “Ignorance is bliss.”

Then, someone replied to one of my threads with this:

This is why Jesus says, If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me. (Luke 9:23)

In order to deny ourselves and take up our crosses, we have to deny ourselves sinful behaviors and attitudes, such as believing homosexual “marriage” is okay, and follow Him

(Ignore the reference of Homosexuality.)

I have many theories and views on those two sources, but we’ll start with a question:

Is intelligence, critical thinking, or open-mindedness sinful?

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[pentecostbaby]

Faith and Reason, Blade and Blood, Faith and Reason . That’s what sets us apart from the Protestants (among other glaring issues, but that’s pretty high up there).

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Faith and Reason, Blade and Blood, Faith and Reason . That’s what sets us apart from the Protestants (among other glaring issues, but that’s pretty high up there).

Faith and Reason is always a good thing, but at this point, in our time, it is no longer enough to create a decent living or to satisfy curious or logical minds that demand more than just Faith and Reason.

Not only that, but sometimes Faith and Reason disagree with each other.

 

[beckycmarie]

Not only that, but sometimes Faith and Reason disagree with each other.

In that case it is the reasoning that is incorrect, not the Faith. An opinion is only valid as far as it is matches the truth.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

In that case it is the reasoning that is incorrect, not the Faith. An opinion is only valid as far as it is matches the truth.

Yeah, but sometimes, Truth doesn’t match Faith, nor can it compete with Faith.

Keep in mind: Man *will *destroy Truth if it threatens Faith.

 

[beckycmarie]

Yeah, but sometimes, Truth doesn’t match Faith, nor can it compete with Faith.

Keep in mind: Man *will *destroy Truth if it threatens Faith.

The Catholic Church teaches the Truth. I think you are confused. . .

By the way, there is a book called Liberalism Is A Sin that was commended by the Sacred Congregation of the Index. Among other things, the book talked about issues of the sanctity of marriage - and it was written in the 1800s.

This book pretty well spells out when “open-mindedness” becomes sinful.

 

[pentecostbaby]

You did deserve a less flippant answer than the one I gave.
I would argue, following the faith and reason argument, that neither intelligence, nor critical thinking, nor openmindedness is sinful. We are created in the image and likeness of God. Hence, our intelligence and critical thinking skills are pale, pale (infinitely pale) shadows of the mind of God (if one can speak of God having a “mind”, since He’s sort of, you know, beyond human understanding ). God probably doesn’t have “open-mindedness”, since He knows everything, He doesn’t need to “open his mind” (although one could argue in a sense that the Incarnation was a sense of being open-minded enough to open Himself to human experience). However, one could argue that open-mindedness is a trait that makes up for our limitations and enables us to find God.

So none of them are bad. One could argue that what is bad is when traits such as intelligence and critical thinking lead one to false conclusions and pride: believing that we knows better than God does, which when you think about it, is really Lucifer’s sin (and Eve’s: God told her not to eat the apple, but she did it anyway - she thought she knew better than He did).

I’ll be interested to see where the rest of this thread goes.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

The Catholic Church teaches the Truth. I think you are confused. . .

By the way, there is a book called Liberalism Is A Sin that was commended by the Sacred Congregation of the Index. Among other things, the book talked about issues of the sanctity of marriage - and it was written in the 1800s.

This book pretty well spells out when “open-mindedness” becomes sinful.

Many think it’s Truth, but others may think the Protestant faith is Truth, or the Mormon faith is Truth, or Muslim, Buddhist, Satanist, etc. Apparently, Truth must come in many forms, but let’s not go astray from the thread.

I believe Open-Mindedness is only a sin if it’s done out of spite. If it’s curiosity, that’s another story.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

You did deserve a less flippant answer than the one I gave.
I would argue, following the faith and reason argument, that neither intelligence, nor critical thinking, nor openmindedness is sinful. We are created in the image and likeness of God. Hence, our intelligence and critical thinking skills are pale, pale (infinitely pale) shadows of the mind of God (if one can speak of God having a “mind”, since He’s sort of, you know, beyond human understanding ). God probably doesn’t have “open-mindedness”, since He knows everything, He doesn’t need to “open his mind” (although one could argue in a sense that the Incarnation was a sense of being open-minded enough to open Himself to human experience). However, one could argue that open-mindedness is a trait that makes up for our limitations and enables us to find God.

So none of them are bad. One could argue that what is bad is when traits such as intelligence and critical thinking lead one to false conclusions and pride: believing that we knows better than God does, which when you think about it, is really Lucifer’s sin (and Eve’s: God told her not to eat the apple, but she did it anyway - she thought she knew better than He did).

I’ll be interested to see where the rest of this thread goes.

I have a feeling that this is the best answer I’m gonna get out of this thread.

Thank you.

Ironically Yours.

 

[Ruthie]

Many think it’s Truth, but others may think the Protestant faith is Truth, or the Mormon faith is Truth, or Muslim, Buddhist, Satanist, etc. Apparently, Truth must come in many forms, but let’s not go astray from the thread.

I think this is very relevant to open-mindedness.

Open-mindedness is a good thing, until it becomes moral relativism. Moral relativism boils down to saying “A is true for you, and B is true for me, so both are true.”

That is being so open-minded that your brains fall out!

God bless you,

Ruthie

 

[Dtmccameron]

There are varied opinions as to what Truth is, but there is only one Truth.

I can, for instance, be 100% certain of something, beyond the shadow of a doubt, and still be wrong. That’s where the Reason comes in. Faith, then, without reason, is easily misplaced. Reason without Faith is…rather flat, to say the least.

And not bothering to even attempt to define precicely what Truth is, is lazy and a horrible waste of a life.

(Gonna quote Chesterton)
*
"Every one of the popular modern phrases and ideals is a dodge in order to shirk the problem of what is good. We are fond of talking about “liberty”; that, as we talk of it, is a dodge to avoid discussing what is good. We are fond of talking about “progress”; that is a dodge to avoid discussing what is good. We are fond of talking about “education”; that is a dodge to avoid discussing what is good. The modern man says, “Let us leave all these arbitrary standards and embrace liberty.” This is, logically rendered, “Let us not decide what is good, but let it be considered good not to decide it.” He says, “Away with your old moral formulae; I am for progress.” This, logically stated, means, “Let us not settle what is good; but let us settle whether we are getting more of it.” He says, “Neither in religion nor morality, my friend, lie the hopes of the race, but in education.” This, clearly expressed, means, “We cannot decide what is good, but let us give it to our children.” "*

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

There are varied opinions as to what Truth is, but there is only one Truth.

I can, for instance, be 100% certain of something, beyond the shadow of a doubt, and still be wrong. That’s where the Reason comes in. Faith, then, without reason, is easily misplaced. Reason without Faith is…rather flat, to say the least.

And not bothering to even attempt to define precicely what Truth is, is lazy and a horrible waste of a life.

Well… I guess we’ll just find out the Truth after our own Deaths. :coffeeread:

 

[Dtmccameron]

Well… I guess we’ll just find out the Truth after our own Deaths. :coffeeread:

Which is why Atheism is the dumbest route to take. You won’t be either satisfied or dissapointed if you’re right, but, boy-oh-boy if you’re wrong…

But no, with Faith and Reason together, you can “figure it out”. Plus a healthy dose of humor. Hard hearts and stiff necks, doctors love 'em, but God sure doesn’t.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Which is why Atheism is the dumbest route to take. You won’t be either satisfied or dissapointed if you’re right, but, boy-oh-boy if you’re wrong…

But no, with Faith and Reason together, you can “figure it out”. Plus a healthy dose of humor. Hard hearts and stiff necks, doctors love 'em, but God sure doesn’t.

:ehh: I really hope you know I’m Catholic.

But, for fun, I’ll level with you:

“Chrisitanity, with some exceptions, has never explicitly advocated human misery; it prefers instead to speak of sacrifices in this life so that benefits may be garnered in the life to come. One invests in this life, so to speak, and collects interest in the next. Fortunately for Christianity, the dead cannot return for a refund.”

-George H. Smith, from Atheism: The Case Against God​

Sorry, that’s probably one of the best Atheist quotes I’ve ever read.

 

[Genesis315]

Faith and reason never contradict themselves. As the Fathers of the First Vatican Council explained:

1. Even though faith is above reason, there can never be any real disagreement between faith and reason, since it is the same God who reveals the mysteries and infuses faith, and who has endowed the human mind with the light of reason.

 6. God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever be in opposition to truth. The     appearance of this kind of specious contradiction is chiefly due to the fact that either     the dogmas of faith are not understood and explained in accordance with the mind of the     Church, or unsound views are mistaken for the conclusions of reason.

 

[Dtmccameron]

:ehh: I really hope you know I’m Catholic.

But, for fun, I’ll level with you:

“Chrisitanity, with some exceptions, has never explicitly advocated human misery; it prefers instead to speak of sacrifices in this life so that benefits may be garnered in the life to come. One invests in this life, so to speak, and collects interest in the next. Fortunately for Christianity, the dead cannot return for a refund.”

-George H. Smith, from Atheism: The Case Against God​

Sorry, that’s probably one of the best Atheist quotes I’ve ever read.

Aye, it was quite good.

But, and sorry for using “you”. Rather accusatory, eh? Again, sorry, bad habit and what not.

But, the Atheist, and the modernist, and the Materialst fail to see that we can reap great fruits even in this life by living as God has commanded. Mother Theresa was ten thousand times richer than Rockefeller ever was.

What is all the money of the world compared to one Holy Communion? Worthless rags and shiny dirt.

Any man who does good in this life to reap rewards in the next is no Christian. A Christian serves God and his fellow men out of Love, not because he wants to get paid. And service in Love is its own reward. And why does the Christian seek Paradise and eternal life? Not for some fantasy of limitless pleasures of the flesh, no, but for the absolute and fantastic joy that will be seeing and serving Our Lord for all eternity! Halleluja!

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Faith and reason never contradict themselves. As the Fathers of the First Vatican Council explained:

Yeah, but that’s the Vatican Council… they are human who share our same faith and beliefs. I don’t doubt the idea of believing something into existence (which would be pretty cool, actually ), but Faith and Reason can sometimes collide in horrible ways.

Thankfully, they come hand in hand, but when intelligence is at its peak, things tend to get complicating, making Reason Faith’s worst enemy.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Aye, it was quite good.

But, and sorry for using “you”. Rather accusatory, eh? Again, sorry, bad habit and what not.

But, the Atheist, and the modernist, and the Materialst fail to see that we can reap great fruits even in this life by living as God has commanded. Mother Theresa was ten thousand times richer than Rockefeller ever was.

What is all the money of the world compared to one Holy Communion? Worthless rags and shiny dirt.

Any man who does good in this life to reap rewards in the next is no Christian. A Christian serves God and his fellow men out of Love, not because he wants to get paid. And service in Love is its own reward. And why does the Christian seek Paradise and eternal life? Not for some fantasy of limitless pleasures of the flesh, no, but for the absolute and fantastic joy that will be seeing and serving Our Lord for all eternity! Halleluja!

That doesn’t mean all Atheists aren’t capable of loving and serving others either.

 

[Dtmccameron]

Yeah, but that’s the Vatican Council… they are human who share our same faith and beliefs. I don’t doubt the idea of believing something into existence (which would be pretty cool, actually ), but Faith and Reason can sometimes collide in horrible ways.

Thankfully, they come hand in hand, but when intelligence is at its peak, things tend to get complicating, making Reason Faith’s worst enemy.

Believing something into existance? Such as "A bunch of people thought of a tree burning in a forest, and all of a sudden, by the power of their combined psychic what-not, a tree burst into flames.

Or that we made God, rather than the other way around?

Intelligence, as we’re describing it here, is entirely based on “The world as we see it”. Which is a flawed vantage point. And why science will never explain ‘everything’. Because we are human, not God, and because we can’t see from his eyes all that is.

So when we look at the picture and say, “This is all there is” and then begin discovering facts about it, and developing theories about it, and formulas to describe it, we do fine and well, and our work is good, but for the fact that it is based on the flawed concept “What I see is what is”.

Were we all blind, would we have anyconcept of the sun? Yet it would be there.

---

"That doesn’t mean all Atheists aren’t capable of loving and serving others either. "

No sir, and I didn’t mean to make it seem so either. Sorry if I did.

Well…Are atheists capable of Love? When Love comes from God, and is seeing another human being for what they are, a wonderful Child of God, could the atheist even hope to attain such virtue? Maybe so…But he would not know from whence his love came.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Believing something into existance? Such as "A bunch of people thought of a tree burning in a forest, and all of a sudden, by the power of their combined psychic what-not, a tree burst into flames.

Or that we made God, rather than the other way around?

Intelligence, as we’re describing it here, is entirely based on “The world as we see it”. Which is a flawed vantage point. And why science will never explain ‘everything’. Because we are human, not God, and because we can’t see from his eyes all that is.

So when we look at the picture and say, “This is all there is” and then begin discovering facts about it, and developing theories about it, and formulas to describe it, we do fine and well, and our work is good, but for the fact that it is based on the flawed concept “What I see is what is”.

Were we all blind, would we have anyconcept of the sun? Yet it would be there.

---

"That doesn’t mean all Atheists aren’t capable of loving and serving others either. "

No sir, and I didn’t mean to make it seem so either. Sorry if I did.

It’s ma’am.

“On the six day, God created man. On the seventh, man returned the favor.”


I’m not entirely sure scientists, or humanity for that matter, want to “top God”. They’re just looking for medicines, trying to get a better understanding about the world and what surrounds it, and trying to create new technologies for the future generations.

I am one hundred percent sure that scientists have a practice for humility, considering the fact that many theories go downhill.