Sinful by buying things

[Wellok]

I have been trying to keep up with this HHS mandate because I find it very upsetting.

I started thinking about my own situation, first with health insurence and then about more stuff. My own health insurance is through my union job. My wife has a preexisting condition that would make independent insurance either impossible with some companies or way more than I can afford with others. I know of people in my plan having vasectomies and doing in-verto fertilization. My premiums are helping to pay for these things.

How grave is my sin by contributing to my plan?

This has also gotten me thinking about other things I have to buy like clothes and food. I am being sinful by buying things that are made in China or picked by migrant workers? Am I responsible for their work conditions? I can’t afford to buy other things.

It’s all too much for me to keep up with. I kind of wish I didn’t know.

 

[Splagchnizomai]

Have you spoken to your priest about this? It sounds like you may be becoming scrupulous, and your priest can guide you away from it.

 

[LizzieAngel]

This has also gotten me thinking about other things I have to buy like clothes and food. I am being sinful by buying things that are made in China or picked by migrant workers? Am I responsible for their work conditions? I can’t afford to buy other things.

It’s all too much for me to keep up with. I kind of wish I didn’t know.

I struggled with this for a long time too. Eventually, my husband and I had to make the decision to simply scale down on what we buy. We were never mega-consumers, but being aware of how/where things were made, we made some major changes.

1. We buy everything we can locally. I know, I know. It sounds like a hippie mantra, but I know my farmers. They’re a sweet elderly Catholic couple who raised 4 kids together, and have so many grandkids, I can’t keep them straight. I like knowing where my money goes, and I spend WAY less than I was spending when we bought shady processed foods at the corporate grocery store. I feel less guilt because a. my money doesn’t go to a company that underpays its employees and gives them no benefits, b. I’m not eating food produced by near-starving laborers, c. I’m not eating garbage and disrespecting the body God gave me, and d. my money is going to real people, who live good and Godly lives.

Also, locally made shoes from a US company make me feel better walking around that similarly priced Nikes made by kids in bad lighting and ventilation.

1. We wait on technology, and buy it second-hand. This way, we’re not contributing to factory conditions or demand for new products every 18 months. And again, I know who gets my money, and generally, what they do with it.
2. We fix things when they break now, and repair/redye clothing so it looks like new.

The sad fact is, we ARE responsible for those workers each time we give their amoral employers money. If no one looked the other way and bought the stuff anyway, they wouldn’t be getting away with what they do!
There are alternatives, you just have to be willing to adjust your lifestyle and mindset.

 

[LizzieAngel]

I have been trying to keep up with this HHS mandate because I find it very upsetting.

I started thinking about my own situation, first with health insurence and then about more stuff. My own health insurance is through my union job. My wife has a preexisting condition that would make independent insurance either impossible with some companies or way more than I can afford with others. I know of people in my plan having vasectomies and doing in-verto fertilization. My premiums are helping to pay for these things.

How grave is my sin by contributing to my plan? .

I think this is in a whole different arena from discretionary purchases. Obviously, with your wife’s condition, you don’t have many options for health insurance. If you look into you, you will also find most all insurance companies offer at some level the services you are concerned about, so there is practically no way to avoid them. Similarly, you have little control in where your 401k is invested by your company, even if they invest in things you don’t approve of.

There are things you can control, and things you can’t. God certainly sees the difference, as all is clear to Him.

 

[wendy_w]

You just have to do the best you can. I’m thankful for my health ins. My husband had a major accident last year that would have left us pretty bad off if we didn’t have insurance. I try to buy responsibly and I really look in to charities before I donate.
Buying local is a good idea. Just do the best you can and ask God for his help.

 

[Joe_5859]

I second the advice to talk to your priest.

Accepting the insurance program your employer offers is not the same as being an employer who chooses and pays for the program.

 

[Wellok]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Good tips Lizzie.

Splagchnizomai : At first I thought you were pulling my leg. How could you be too scrupulous but then I looked up the Catholic definition and it made sense. I don’t think I am seeing sin where there isn’t any but will talk to my Priest.

Joe 5859: I was thinking that if Catholic Business owners are being forced because of the HHS and the Church thinks that they are being forced to sin. Isn’t me being force to pay premiums that pay for the same things kind of the same thing? We both don’t want to pay for it but we have to.

 

[LizzieAngel]

You just have to do the best you can. I’m thankful for my health ins. My husband had a major accident last year that would have left us pretty bad off if we didn’t have insurance. I try to buy responsibly and I really look in to charities before I donate.
Buying local is a good idea. Just do the best you can and ask God for his help.

Wendy W, this is a great attitude to have! You know the old prayer:

God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Amen.

Wellock-Best of luck to you! Pray and listen. If you are truly disturbed, God will surely guide you in the right decision.

 

[wendy_w]

Wendy W, this is a great attitude to have! You know the old prayer:

God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Amen.

Wellock-Best of luck to you! Pray and listen. If you are truly disturbed, God will surely guide you in the right decision.

 

[Wellok]

Wendy W, this is a great attitude to have! You know the old prayer:

God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Amen.

Wellock-Best of luck to you! Pray and listen. If you are truly disturbed, God will surely guide you in the right decision.

I don’t think I’m ready to give in yet.

 

[iloveangels]

I don’t think I’m ready to give in yet.

Understood. Do the best you possibly can. Talk to your priest about it and make sure you’re not participating in evil any more than you have to.

And don’t make a big deal out of it for other people, because they have to make the same choices privately too. Making it sound like you can just let it skate will encourage other Catholics to ignore all this. Catholics are a passive lot, and can be cynical about these things, remember. That’s just as bad. It’s still formal cooperation with evil.

 

[Splagchnizomai]

Talk to your priest about it and make sure you’re not participating in evil any more than you have to.

Any more than you have to? I wasn’t aware that we were allowed to participate in evil at all.

 

[iloveangels]

Any more than you have to? I wasn’t aware that we were allowed to participate in evil at all.

You’re right. We have been hoodwinked by the insurance companies and people are waking up to it. There need to be policies that don’t include these things that people can have.

There are going to be a lot of insurance plans dropped in the next year, for various reasons. I know there’s at least one small business owner in this forum, a Catholic, that has just dropped his plan for his employees. I don’t blame him.

 

[RastaPasta]

This has also gotten me thinking about other things I have to buy like clothes and food. I am being sinful by buying things that are made in China or picked by migrant workers?
Am I responsible for their work conditions?
I can’t afford to buy other things.
It’s all too much for me to keep up with. I kind of wish I didn’t know.

It’s literally impossible these days, to buy merchandise (food, clothes, electronic equipment, furniture, gasoline etc.) that isn’t the result of foreign trade and/or labor.

Fact is, if it wasn’t for foreign trade and labor, the USA would be out of business.

I’m typing this on a keyboard that was made in China, which is connected to a personal computer… that was made in China.

 

[Wellok]

It’s literally impossible these days, to buy merchandise (food, clothes, electronic equipment, furniture, gasoline etc.) that isn’t the result of foreign trade and/or labor.

Fact is, if it wasn’t for foreign trade and labor, the USA would be out of business.

I’m typing this on a keyboard that was made in China, which is connected to a personal computer… that was made in China.

You think all foreign labor is sweat shops? I can’t believe that is true.

 

[RastaPasta]

It’s literally impossible these days, to buy merchandise (food, clothes, electronic equipment, furniture, gasoline etc.) that isn’t the result of foreign trade and/or labor.

Fact is, if it wasn’t for foreign trade and labor, the USA would be out of business.

I’m typing this on a keyboard that was made in China, which is connected to a personal computer… that was made in China.

You think all foreign labor is sweat shops? I can’t believe that is true.

Did I say that sweatshops are the consequence of foreign trade and labor, or did I say that the consequence of not utilizing foreign trade and labor would put the USA out of business?

 

[RastaPasta]

You think all foreign labor is sweat shops? I can’t believe that is true.

Addendum:

Not all foreign laborers work in sweatshops, nor is the business of foreign trade necessarily evil, however, there are countries in this world that exploit their workforce.

China, for instance, has no OSHA standards, so if your work station is next to a piece of equipment that is belching toxic vapors, you have two choices: Suck it up, or hold your breath. Don’t expect them to repair the faulty machinery - they don’t want to spend the money.

Fact is, China has one of the worst records on the planet when it comes to clean air (their factories spew all sorts of contaminants into the atmosphere), and the government of China doesn’t treat their citizens/workforce especially well.

We buy a lot of merchandise from China. We buy a lot of merchandise from other foreign interests as well. My whole point is the fact that as a country we DEPEND on foreign trade and labor in order to survive. There is very little that can be done with regard to how a lot of people are treated in other countries when it comes to their work day… but one should never forget the fact that someone, somewhere, pays the price for our life of convince.

We just dole out the dollars with unclean hands.

 

[Leegal]

I have been trying to keep up with this HHS mandate because I find it very upsetting.

I started thinking about my own situation, first with health insurence and then about more stuff. My own health insurance is through my union job. My wife has a preexisting condition that would make independent insurance either impossible with some companies or way more than I can afford with others. I know of people in my plan having vasectomies and doing in-verto fertilization. My premiums are helping to pay for these things.

How grave is my sin by contributing to my plan?

This has also gotten me thinking about other things I have to buy like clothes and food. I am being sinful by buying things that are made in China or picked by migrant workers? Am I responsible for their work conditions? I can’t afford to buy other things.

It’s all too much for me to keep up with. I kind of wish I didn’t know.

Don’t let the HHS mandate for faith based organizations and non-profits run by the Church confuse you into scrupulosity. This issue is govenrment infringement on Church run organizations so as to force the Church or religion to provide something against doctrine.

I assume you have a secular employer. That insurance, negotiated by your union for the entire union, does not mean you are knowingly supporting abortions, contraceptions and sterilization. You are not expected to leave your family uninsured by virtue of the actions of a secular union which serves all members.

I try and do the right thing when it comes to “buy American” but it’s not always possible or feasible. I shop discount as I’m out of work so I only buy what I need. I can’t know where all the foods originate. Some items yes – but I only buy out of need not luxury. If I’m in the discount stores and second-hand shops, I buy what I need. There’s nothing more I can do.

Talk to a priest because you may be being overly scrupulous and have confused the controversy over the HHS mandate that would interfere with the Church sponsored organizations such as EWTN and Catholic Charities with your secular union job.

 

[Wellok]

I assume you have a secular employer. That insurance, negotiated by your union for the entire union, does not mean you are knowingly supporting abortions, contraceptions and sterilization. You are not expected to leave your family uninsured by virtue of the actions of a secular union which serves all members.

I appreciate your advice. I’m not going to drop my insurance because my family needs it. I am rethinking what my family buys and we are going to do the best we can and make better choices.

This insurance thing is hanging me up though. I am knowingly supporting these things. I didn’t really give it too much though before. Part of my money did pay for IVF and vasectomies. I know the guy and the other guy and his wife. I work with them and know they have the same insurance.

I don’t want to start any bad blood by telling them what to do. I make the choices for my family and they make it for theirs.

I don’t see why it’s not the same thing. I’m being forced into paying for it because of the situation I’m in.

 

[Leegal]

I appreciate your advice. I’m not going to drop my insurance because my family needs it. I am rethinking what my family buys and we are going to do the best we can and make better choices.

This insurance thing is hanging me up though. I am knowingly supporting these things. I didn’t really give it too much though before. Part of my money did pay for IVF and vasectomies. I know the guy and the other guy and his wife. I work with them and know they have the same insurance.

I don’t want to start any bad blood by telling them what to do. I make the choices for my family and they make it for theirs.

I don’t see why it’s not the same thing. I’m being forced into paying for it because of the situation I’m in.

There is a difference. The HHS mandate is a Constitutional issue over religious doctrine and the freedom of the Catholic Church to not support ABC, sterilization, etc. in any way by providing it to employees of their faith-based institutions.

In the case of your job, your secular employer has provided this coverage. You, as a Catholic, must not avail yourself of using that coverage. However, the union or the employer is required by contract not to provide different coverage – unless by rider that had an “opt out” feature. Usually not the case.

I’m sure the priest can explain it.