Sinful to surf internet on neighbor's or neighboring business's Wi-Fi connection?

[michaeldaniels]

Hey guys and gals…I was wondering something. My laptop has an air card which I pay a monthly access fee in order to be able to access the internet…connection speed is so-so…somtimes when I go to connect to the internet, there is an unsecure Wi-Fi connection available (just called “NETGEAR”), which is a lot faster and I connect with it if I am in a hurry and need to check something really fast. I live in a pretty rural area, so I doubt it is a business…it more than likely is a neighbor’s…my question is if using this available, unsecure connection…regardless of where it is coming from is sinful. Like I have stated, I do not circumvent anything or hack anything…it is just there…kind of like tuning in a radio station…but as a God fearing Catholic, I certainly do not want to do it if it is sinful…any suggestion? If it is sinful, is it a grave matter? thanks

 

[FiberZilla]

Hey guys and gals…I was wondering something. My laptop has an air card which I pay a monthly access fee in order to be able to access the internet…connection speed is so-so…somtimes when I go to connect to the internet, there is an unsecure Wi-Fi connection available (just called “NETGEAR”), which is a lot faster and I connect with it if I am in a hurry and need to check something really fast. I live in a pretty rural area, so I doubt it is a business…it more than likely is a neighbor’s…my question is if using this available, unsecure connection…regardless of where it is coming from is sinful. Like I have stated, I do not circumvent anything or hack anything…it is just there…kind of like tuning in a radio station…but as a God fearing Catholic, I certainly do not want to do it if it is sinful…any suggestion? If it is sinful, is it a grave matter? thanks

If you bought a laptop with every intention leaching off of your neighbor’s connection it would be sinful. Given these circumstances, since you are already paying for an internet connection it’s not a big deal. I just wouldn’t make a habit of it. Use your own connection if it’s available and you aren’t in a big hurry.

 

[pnewton]

Let’s see. The airways are public, but the equipment is not. I think there is no clear-cut right or wrong, except our obligation to obey civil authorities. So, what is the law on such things?

compnetworking.about.com/od/wirelessfaqs/f/legal_free_wifi.htm

Maybe check the laws in your state?

 

[Tedster]

I think it would be. You are using something that they are buying without their permission.

If I had an electrical outlet on the side of my house, would it be moral for you to plug into it and use it? No. Is there any difference? Slightly. You are charged by the amount of electricity you use, whereas there is only one charge for internet activity. But that said, bandwidth is a concern for any ISP, and I doubt they would allow “piggybacking”.

The article that Pnewton links, also says it may not be legal to “piggyback” depending on the ISP’s policies. I really doubt that any ISP would allow that, therefore it is most likely illegal in all states.

 

[kage_ar]

Simply ask your neighbor if he minds.

Look at it this way, your are my neighbor and you have an electrical outlet on the side of your house. It is closer than me going inside and running an extention cord just to plug the leaf blower into your socket. Would it be right for me to do this without your permission?

 

[John21652]

If you walked into your neighbour’s kitchen and saw ten dollars on the table, would you take it? After all, according to you, it’s “just there”.

Well, if you walked into your neighbour’s kitchen and saw no ten dollars, it might be because he’s just paid his account for the extra data someone unknown used.

 

[flyingfish]

I think it’s an interesting question, if the neighbor did not put a password on the wireless network does it mean he wants to make it available to the public? Your neighbor has chosen to broadcast a public wireless connection.

Of course it’s possible that the neighbor just doesn’t understand how to set the password.

I personally wouldn’t worry about it as long as you weren’t doing something that was using up your neighbor’s bandwidth. If you’re doing anything that’s bandwidth intensive and harming your neighbor’s internet use, then yeah, your’e doing something wrong.

 

[baltobetsy]

Two questions:

What things are seriously bandwidth intensive?

and

How do you know whose wireless connection you’re using? I hooked up my new laptop and a window came up saying that a Linksys connection was available and would I like to use it. It wasn’t mine, and there was no indication whose it was. How do you tell?

Betsy

 

[John21652]

I think it’s an interesting question, if the neighbor did not put a password on the wireless network does it mean he wants to make it available to the public? Your neighbor has chosen to broadcast a public wireless connection.

Of course it’s possible that the neighbor just doesn’t understand how to set the password.

I personally wouldn’t worry about it as long as you weren’t doing something that was using up your neighbor’s bandwidth. If you’re doing anything that’s bandwidth intensive and harming your neighbor’s internet use, then yeah, your’e doing something wrong.

Isn’t there an underlying moral principle involved here?
In the post immediately above yours I used a ten dollar note as an analogy. If our OP walked in and took that ten dollar note, saying to himself “it’s only ten dollars, he wont miss it”, isn’t he rationalising away a wrong he has done?

If he took the ten dollars he is making an assumption.
In your response, you are making the same asumption.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Hey guys and gals…I was wondering something. My laptop has an air card which I pay a monthly access fee in order to be able to access the internet…connection speed is so-so…somtimes when I go to connect to the internet, there is an unsecure Wi-Fi connection available (just called “NETGEAR”), which is a lot faster and I connect with it if I am in a hurry and need to check something really fast. I live in a pretty rural area, so I doubt it is a business…it more than likely is a neighbor’s…my question is if using this available, unsecure connection…regardless of where it is coming from is sinful. Like I have stated, I do not circumvent anything or hack anything…it is just there…kind of like tuning in a radio station…but as a God fearing Catholic, I certainly do not want to do it if it is sinful…any suggestion? If it is sinful, is it a grave matter? thanks

Who says christian morality is any higher than anyone else’s. This post is evidence of that. Thank you.

 

[flyingfish]

Isn’t there an underlying moral principle involved here?
In the post immediately above yours I used a ten dollar note as an analogy. If our OP walked in and took that ten dollar note, saying to himself “it’s only ten dollars, he wont miss it”, isn’t he rationalising away a wrong he has done?

If he took the ten dollars he is making an assumption.
In your response, you are making the same asumption.

Except in this case the neighbor left a 10 dollar note on the side of the street open to anyone who can pick it up. Did he do this deliberately or did he lose it (i.e. did he deliberately not set a password, or doesn’t know how).

If someone lost 10 dollars on the side of the street and you keep it as your own, are you stealing?

I wouldn’t mind if someone used my wireless to browse the internet for example, because I have unlimited internet and because browsing wouldn’t slow my use down. But I would be pretty angry if someone started using my connection to download files and eating my bandwidth.

 

[KarenElissa]

Two questions:

What things are seriously bandwidth intensive?

and

How do you know whose wireless connection you’re using? I hooked up my new laptop and a window came up saying that a Linksys connection was available and would I like to use it. It wasn’t mine, and there was no indication whose it was. How do you tell?

Betsy

Things like downloading large files and streaming audio and video are bandwidth hogs. General surfing the internet is lighter use.

As for figuring out whose network it is, good luck. Unless they have named it something identifiable, and in this case, they haven’t, it will be a bit of a chore to sort it out.

FWIW, this is a pretty interesting issue, one I’ve heard debated in tech circles fairly often. There really don’t seem to be many, if any, legal precedents, so that is rather unhelpful in sorting it out.

As for the most recent example, of stealing money from someones table, that really isn’t a very good analogy. If you take the money, they no longer have the money and you do. If you are using someone’s wifi, they still have access to it also. If you are being a bandwidth hog, that is a different story as it will effect their internet use, but a quick check of your e-mail, most likely won’t.

The electricity analogy is a bit better since even if you use their electricity, they will still have it, but like someone mentioned, they have to pay for the various amounts of electricity used. Also it is a bit different because in that example, you are going to their property to use it, while the wifi is being broadcast into your property.

The general consensus seems to be that using someones wifi to try and figure out why yours is down or to quickly check your e-mail is ok. Using someones wifi instead of paying for your own or hacking into a secured network is not ok. Everything in between is pretty fuzzy.

ETA: here is a pretty good article on this issue. It is a bit old, but as far as I can tell, the basic ideas haven’t really changed.

 

[John21652]

Except in this case the neighbor left a 10 dollar note on the side of the street open to anyone who can pick it up. Did he do this deliberately or did he lose it (i.e. did he deliberately not set a password, or doesn’t know how).

If someone lost 10 dollars on the side of the street and you keep it as your own, are you stealing?

I wouldn’t mind if someone used my wireless to browse the internet for example, because I have unlimited internet and because browsing wouldn’t slow my use down. But I would be pretty angry if someone started using my connection to download files and eating my bandwidth.

Go back and read my example again.

The ten dollar note was not on the street.

If it was on the street, how would you know who owned it?

 

[KarenElissa]

Go back and read my example again.

The ten dollar note was not on the street.

If it was on the street, how would you know who owned it?

That is the point though, the wifi is coming into my house and often I don’t know who owns it. I live in an apartment and at any given time can see 5-10 different wifi networks. Some I can figure out because people have renamed them, but many people just use the default name (usually the router brand) so I have no idea who owns them.

 

[flyingfish]

Go back and read my example again.

The ten dollar note was not on the street.

If it was on the street, how would you know who owned it?

The wifi is on the street, the neighbor pretty much left the wifi open to anyone and everyone in range. For all we know, he might be someone who actually believes in letting others use his wifi and that’s why he left it open to everyone who wants to connect.

 

[StrawberryJam]

The wifi is on the street, the neighbor pretty much left the wifi open to anyone and everyone in range. For all we know, he might be someone who actually believes in letting others use his wifi and that’s why he left it open to everyone who wants to connect.

This reminds me of a time years ago when I started taking golf lessons. I had left my bag on the parkway with other bags and had my car running, door open while packing my stuff for a five day trip. A garbage picker in a rusty pickup was driving by as I was bringing out another load. He had my bag of clubs in his truck already. I confronted him, and he said he “thought it was garbage going out”

Yeah. Callaway is pure garbage.

Needless to say, he was arrested.

 

[vera_dicere]

I’d say it’s wrong.

If your neighbour left his car in the driveway with the keys in the ignition, would it be right for you to take it for a spin?

No, it wouldn’t.

In my country we have caps on our Wi-Fi, so if you piggy back off someone else’s account you are using up all their allowances, so they end up with very little or none. Plus, there have been cases where people have piggybacked and looked at rather questionable material, it was then the person who owned the account who got charged with seeing the illegal material.

Long and short of it, if you use someone else’s connection, without their permission, without their konwledge, and without paying for it, you’re sinning. The fact you’ve posted this either points out you don’t feel right about something or you just want people to try and appease you by saying “well… technically…”

 

[StrawberryJam]

I’d say it’s wrong.

If your neighbour left his car in the driveway with the keys in the ignition, would it be right for you to take it for a spin?

No, it wouldn’t.

In my country we have caps on our Wi-Fi, so if you piggy back off someone else’s account you are using up all their allowances, so they end up with very little or none. Plus, there have been cases where people have piggybacked and looked at rather questionable material, it was then the person who owned the account who got charged with seeing the illegal material.

Long and short of it, if you use someone else’s connection, without their permission, without their konwledge, and without paying for it, you’re sinning. The fact you’ve posted this either points out you don’t feel right about something or you just want people to try and appease you by saying “well… technically…”

Good show! I fully and heartily agree with your type of christian morality. About time it became consistant.

 

[LilyM]

Some people have caps on their wifi, and/or download limits, others still are actually charged by the amount of data they use.

Unless none of the above apply, then you are costing your neighbour money by using their wifi. And you can’t simply assume that they left it open because they wanted it to be available to anyone and everyone, any more than leaving their door open would mean they want you to come in and help yourself to their belongings.

You don’t know whose the wifi is? Do what you’d do if you found a wallet with no ID but lots of money in your corridor - ASK!

Knock on your neighbours’ doors or leave notes in their mailboxes, and find out. If nothing else, maybe they don’t know that people can nick their internet and will be grateful to you for letting them know.

 

[John21652]

The wifi is on the street, the neighbor pretty much left the wifi open to anyone and everyone in range. For all we know, he might be someone who actually believes in letting others use his wifi and that’s why he left it open to everyone who wants to connect.

The wifi signal is on the street, but the source isn’t. Which is why I put the ten dollar note on the kitchen table in the hypothetical.

Let me spell it out for you.

Despite the fact the WiFi signal isn’t secured, you can work out where it is emanating from and so trace the owner. The ten dollar note was in someone’s home, so it is easier to establish ownership.

Our WiFi hacker is taking what doesn’t belong to him because he assumes that the person who owns the connection doesn’t place a high value on it because it isn’t secured.

Similarly, if he took the ten dollars off the kitchen table (which is where I put it in the hypothetical, for those who can’t read), he is assuming that the ten dollars is of little value to the owner because it is unsecured.

If he doesn’t take the ten dollar note because he knows who owns it, but takes the wifi because he doesn’t, then in the case of the wifi he is negligent for not establishingb ownership. It is akin to receiving stolen goods.

The point is, if we go around telling ourselves that something which belongs to someone else is of little value to the owner, we can rationalise away the taking of anything we desire.

That directly breaks one of the ten commandments, not to mention the law of the land.