Singingbeauty,
Mary required a savior, and Jesus was. Your logic [or lack of it] astounds. You say Mary would not have needed a savior “if she was free of original sin”. But this negates the act of God in keeping her free of original sin at the moment of her conception.
One must read this carefully so as not to misunderstand you, which I almost did!
Even while Mary was Immaculately conceived without sin, or the stain of original sin, Jesus still had to come, to be sacrificed, that the gates of heaven would be opened for all, including Mary. I have heard the statement made, that Mary was “Pre-redeemed” at the moment of her conception, even while it was 33 or so years plus her tender 15 year age (at the birth of Jesus) or about 48 years later that the redemption of mankind would be redeemed at the cross would occur in the time flow of creation. (And, of course, for those who accept Him, His gospel message, and prevail in their faith until the end of their days here on earth.)
Jesus saved Mary and He did so based upon His atoning act at calvary. Mary is not free of sin except by the action of God, hence a savior. The Church has thus ever taught this. Even the original “protestants” believed this.
If or Protestant friends wonder how it can be that Mary is “saved” in her conception, while it was about 48 years later that the moment in time would open the gates of heaven for the first time? They forget that God is timeless, and while the events above seem to be in anachronism from our limited and confined single direction of time flow.
Jesus stands both outside of linear time and a part of linear time. He, Jesus was present at the beginning of the world. God is one. The language of the Trinity can be confusing [see our Muslim friends beleive we worhip more than one God] and many people one one level understand that God is one but ptoceed to make God less than unified. He, God, could save anyone he wanted to, wants to and ever wants to at any time through out history, the present or the future.
Indeed! The other difficulty our Protestant friends have a hard time is how Mary can be the Mother of Jesus, who is God, thus God precedes the mother in time! It is that same anachronism that we see, but for God, He is forever in the past, present and future in the timelessness of the spiritual realm.
Enoch, a man who even though he was born with the stain of original sin, 'walked all his days with the Lord" and was taken up [as in did not suffer death.] This probably means that he was able to avoid any personal sin! How awsome is that! Elijah also was taken up into heaven in a fiery chariot. Mary’s faith was far greater and far more was accepted by her in her “yes” to God. She is the ‘spouse’ of the Holy Spirit, made one with, ‘known’ by God [in the jewish sense of knowing] and the mother of the God-Man Jesus all at once.
And with the precedence you describe for being taken up to heaven bodily, it is no great effort to include the Mother of God to be likewise taken up!
The Ark of the old covenant carried the word of God, written on stone by God’s hand, the manna [food from heaven] that sustained the people of Isreal while they wondered into the desert and the staff of Aaron, the high priest. Read the old testament passages about the construction of [and the perfection required] this Ark. Read about how no one was allowed to touch or defile this ark. One who touched it out of fear that the Ark would fall and be damaged [as in an attempt to protect it] died as a result.
A foreshadowing of how we see the “untouched” vessel that would bear our Lord, to be the very tabernacle for Him for nine months!
Mary is the Ark of the new covenant. She carried the Word of God Made Flesh, Jesus. She bore the Man-God who is the Highest Priest that ever will be, the One Who Was, Who Is and Who Is to Come. Mary is the faithful spouse of the Holy Spirit. Mary is “filled with the grace of God”, “highly favored” and the one who is to be “called Blessed” in every generation. God saved her at her conception because He would dwell within her. And the dwelling place of God is perfect, a holy sanctified place, free from sin.
Good show, YADA!
I gotta stay out of CARM and come here more often to get good arguments!
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages
call me blessed. (Luke 1:46-48)
