Sinfulness of praying to a saint before praying to God

[BRZ]

I know this is probably ridiculous. I had a very big argument with a protestant today and while I can’t for the life of me see anything wrong with it, he said something to me. He said that if I pray to a saint or Mary first, before praying to God then I am making them more important then God. I know this ties into the whole praying to Saints issue but I told him what does it matter whether or not we say a Hail Mary before an Our Father. He said because we are putting Mary at the same place as God. Of course, I told him that was ridiculous and in no way did I think Mary was God but no matter how I said it, he just couldn’t agree.

According to him, saying anyone’s name in a prayer is like making them God or even saying a prayer to a Saint before praying to God is sinful. I just can’t see any problem with it, I said they aren’t conflicting in anyway. Does it really matter if I pray to a Saint first and then to God? I just can’t see it.

 

[praise_Jesus_1]

When we pray to a saint we are really asking for them to pray to God for us because we realize that they have a very special relationship with God.

Oftentimes I think protestants confuse the word pray and worship. When we pray to a saint or Mary we are not worshiping them we are ‘petitioning’ them (one of the definitions of pray is to petition).

But you also have to understand protestant theology is drastically different from ours.

Anyways as an anecdotal response you could say you are praying to the saints and Mary before you pray to God so that they can petition on your behalf because “God is jealous, and the Lord revengeth; the Lord revengeth, and is furious” - Nahum 1:2 (KJV)

Best wishes and I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

 

[good2bhome]

If you asked him to pray for you would that mean you were putting more faith in him than in God? Of course not, you are just asking for help and more prayer which is what we ask of the saints and Mary.

You also have to understand that for a Protestant prayer is worship because they do not have the Mass or Eucharist.

When I was Protestant I had a very either/or mentality. I am so happy God gave me the grace to understand the wonderful loving family we have in the Saints and Mary.

 

[BRZ]

Of course I said all of these things to him exactly, and more but he just couldn’t get it out of his head that it is putting more importance on other things then God. No matter how many times I told him we do not think they are God, we are not worshiping them as God, he just kept saying we should only pray to God, and never to saints or Mary or say any prayer with Mary’s name in it, etc.

 

[MatthewCrossman]

When we pray to a saint we are really asking for them to pray to God for us because we realize that they have a very special relationship with God.

Oftentimes I think protestants confuse the word pray and worship. When we pray to a saint or Mary we are not worshiping them we are ‘petitioning’ them (one of the definitions of pray is to petition).

But you also have to understand protestant theology is drastically different from ours.

Anyways as an anecdotal response you could say you are praying to the saints and Mary before you pray to God so that they can petition on your behalf because “God is jealous, and the Lord revengeth; the Lord revengeth, and is furious” - Nahum 1:2 (KJV)

Best wishes and I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

Raised a protestant to a former Catholic mother, I can tell you more often than not this is very true. I like to think of praying to saints as being rather like the old English ‘I pray thee’…what Catholics are really doing is petitioning. Petitioning the saints, as they have a very special relationship with God in heaven.

 

[Ali_formerJW]

we should only pray to God, and never to saints or Mary or say any prayer with Mary’s name in it, etc.

We are not praying to Saints or Mary. We are asking them to pray for us like we ask people on earth to pray for us.

I asked my Baptist neighbor is she asked people to pray for her. Yes, she does.

I asked her if she believed people in heaven can look down on us. Yes, she does.

So then, why not ask those people to offer up prayers to God on our behalf, just like our friends on earth do. It gave her pause.

Did I convince her, noooo, she still has her blinders on, but it made her think just a bit.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Oftentimes I think protestants confuse the word pray and worship. When we pray to a saint or Mary we are not worshiping them we are ‘petitioning’ them (one of the definitions of pray is to petition).

I think the difficulty arises in making the distinction between veneration and worship. It’s a VERY fine line and one which many Catholics, including clergy, cross. The problem arises when you’re “venerating” Mary and the Saints more than you’re petitioning and worshiping God. There seems to be a sub-culture in Catholicism which does this.

 

[fix]

I think the difficulty arises in making the distinction between veneration and worship. It’s a VERY fine line and one which many Catholics, including clergy, cross. The problem arises when you’re “venerating” Mary and the Saints more than you’re petitioning and worshiping God. There seems to be a sub-culture in Catholicism which does this.

Is Mary’s will different than God’s will?

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Is Mary’s will different than God’s will?

Mary was/is merely an instrument of God’s will.

I Timothy 2:5 - “For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:”

 

[fix]

Mary was/is merely an instrument of God’s will.

I Timothy 2:5 - “For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:”

Mary’s will is the same as God’s will. So, asking Mary for help does not offend God it pleases Him greatly.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Mary’s will is the same as God’s will. So, asking Mary for help does not offend God it pleases Him greatly.

According to whom? Certainly not the Bible. In fact, the Bible only mentions one intercessor/mediator, Jesus Christ, and the Assumption of Mary didn’t even become dogma until 1950! Now, back to the topic at hand, I don’t believe God would be pleased by being tossed onto the back burner to make way for veneration of Mary and the Saints.

 

[AdriannaJean]

We do not pray to Mary or the Saints, we ask them to pray for us. It’s no different than asking your best friend here on Earth to pray for you…Protestants do that don’t they?

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

We do not pray to Mary or the Saints, we ask them to pray for us. It’s no different than asking your best friend here on Earth to pray for you…Protestants do that don’t they?

Of course it is! The one glaring difference being that Mary and the Saints are dead. You say you don’t pray to Mary or the Saints? Do you pray the rosary or do you ask the rosary?

 

[ababbidg]

Of course it is! The one glaring difference being that Mary and the Saints are dead. You say you don’t pray to Mary or the Saints? Do you pray the rosary or do you ask the rosary?

Mary and the saints are not dead, they are perhaps more alive than we are. Yes, their bodies are dead, but their soul lives on. I like how jrr tolkien says it “We are not a body that has a soul, we are a soul that has a body.”

 

[BRZ]

Yeah, I tried hard to make him see the truth of the Church but he believes that it doesn’t matter what Church you are a member of. He thinks that if you believe and love God that you are a member of God’s Church. He has a problem with the authority of the Catholic Church and I feel bad because I feel like I failed to convince him.

 

[BRZ]

According to whom? Certainly not the Bible. In fact, the Bible only mentions one intercessor/mediator, Jesus Christ, and the Assumption of Mary didn’t even become dogma until 1950! Now, back to the topic at hand, I don’t believe God would be pleased by being tossed onto the back burner to make way for veneration of Mary and the Saints.

It doesn’t matter what year that something becomes a Dogma. Time does not exist to God and when we are revealed certain truths does not have a timestamp. Not to mention that the assumption was something that all Christians believed since the beginning as it was the apostles who found that Mary’s body was indeed taken into heavon to begin with. It never needed to be defined because it was common belief. Your logic is flawed.

 

[redrosetea]

I know this is probably ridiculous. I had a very big argument with a protestant today and while I can’t for the life of me see anything wrong with it, he said something to me. He said that if I pray to a saint or Mary first, before praying to God then I am making them more important then God. I know this ties into the whole praying to Saints issue but I told him what does it matter whether or not we say a Hail Mary before an Our Father. He said because we are putting Mary at the same place as God. Of course, I told him that was ridiculous and in no way did I think Mary was God but no matter how I said it, he just couldn’t agree.

According to him, saying anyone’s name in a prayer is like making them God or even saying a prayer to a Saint before praying to God is sinful. I just can’t see any problem with it, I said they aren’t conflicting in anyway. Does it really matter if I pray to a Saint first and then to God? I just can’t see it.

That is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard…Firstly we are only asking the saints to help us pray to God…I wonder if he ever asks anyone to help him pray?

There ae quotes in scripture about clouds of witness and in the book of Revaluations about prayers of the saints rising like incesnse

F Rankly he is only putting limits on God’s mercy and His love…Who is he when he is at home? I hardly think he qualifies as an expert on the subject

 

[mom24boys]

Here is an analogy for your friend: Asking the saints to pray for us before we actually pray to God is like when Protestants in a “prayer meeting” all say their prayer requests out loud to each other and then pray to God. They rely heavily on the verse “where two or more are gathered”; we simply believe that the “cloud of witnesses” includes the Christians who have already passed on. The saints are our “prayer partners” (another very evangelical/Protestant term).

 

[JimG]

Here is an analogy for your friend: Asking the saints to pray for us before we actually pray to God is like when Protestants in a “prayer meeting” all say their prayer requests out loud to each other and then pray to God. They rely heavily on the verse “where two or more are gathered”; we simply believe that the “cloud of witnesses” includes the Christians who have already passed on. The saints are our “prayer partners” (another very evangelical/Protestant term).

That’s a great way of putting it. Everybody likes to have prayer partners. And the saints are great prayer partners.

The title question is rather like asking your friend if it is sinful of her to speak to you rather than to her husband. Is she making you more important than her husband? Prayer is just chatting; prayer is not worship; prayer is a meeting of one Christian with others, asking for prayers and help in one’s spiritual life.

 

[AdriannaJean]

Of course it is! The one glaring difference being that Mary and the Saints are dead. You say you don’t pray to Mary or the Saints? Do you pray the rosary or do you ask the rosary?

Hail Mary, full of Grace
The Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou amongst women
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for us sinners
Now, and at the hour of our death
Amen

Case closed.