L
Lucyabe
Guest
God blessed you with a good sense of humor Al.
- Status
F
fodda23
Guest
The definition of chanting is sung speech. So the words of consecration are never in essence simply sung. The chanting is to add special solemnity to the occasion, as in the example of Pope Benedict XVI, when he chanted, with no music to accompany, the words of consecration, for the Epiphany.
Chanting has been around for more than 1500 years. It is ok to chant any part of the mass, especially the opening prayer, the closing prayer, the Gospel, the Preface. The Our Father and the Creed are asked to be chanted on Solemnities, and Sundays in the GIRM, but you will hardly see that on Sunday. Most singing of the Our Father does not satisfy the request of chant as is done in Rome after the Wednesday audience with the Holy Father.
Again, chanting, which is sung speech, is never vibrato, not sung, not overly slow or long, drawn out or showy. It should be done in good taste, done well and without calling attention to oneself, but what is being done (to pay special attention here… during the liturgy) during the mass itself. If a priest can’t chant it correctly, then let him know that it is distracting, but please do it in charity. After all, when you speak to the priest after mass, remember you have just received the Risen Lord in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar. If you can’t mention the distraction in charity, seek another parish.
Peace:thumbsup:
Chanting has been around for more than 1500 years. It is ok to chant any part of the mass, especially the opening prayer, the closing prayer, the Gospel, the Preface. The Our Father and the Creed are asked to be chanted on Solemnities, and Sundays in the GIRM, but you will hardly see that on Sunday. Most singing of the Our Father does not satisfy the request of chant as is done in Rome after the Wednesday audience with the Holy Father.
Again, chanting, which is sung speech, is never vibrato, not sung, not overly slow or long, drawn out or showy. It should be done in good taste, done well and without calling attention to oneself, but what is being done (to pay special attention here… during the liturgy) during the mass itself. If a priest can’t chant it correctly, then let him know that it is distracting, but please do it in charity. After all, when you speak to the priest after mass, remember you have just received the Risen Lord in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar. If you can’t mention the distraction in charity, seek another parish.
Peace:thumbsup:
B
benedictgal
Guest
I am not a theologian; however, I have planned liturgies at my Cathedral and at the diocesan level.Well, it is nice to hear from so many people on this subject. I am still a bit confused as to whether it is permissable or not. With music or without? He does not CHANT, he Sings, with a beautiful voice that sounds like he could perform on stage anywhere, but he does have light piano accompaniment.
When the pope SANG the words of Consecration was it Singing, or Chanting? And did music accompany it?
When seeing the horrible DISCO Mass on this web page, I suppose I should not be a bit concerned about the Reverent Singing of the words of Consecration! And I guess I wouldn’t be, except I love those words when SPOKEN with sincerity and reverence, as this pastor does at daily Mass, and now during Lent.
I do wish a Theologian would give me a real answer to this question. I have asked but not gotten one from any yet.
When the Holy Father chanted the words of the Roman Canon (Eucharistic Prayer), there was no accompanyment (sp?) because, as many posts have correctly noted, it is forbidden to play musical instruments during the Eucharistic prayer. The Roman Missal (Sacramentary) does have the Canons set to chant. The Prefaces are also set to chant. My PV chants the Prefaces on Sundays and on Solemnities.
It is also quite beautiful when the Canon is chanted in Latin, as Pope Benedict XVI sometimes does.
Bear in mind, too, that during Papal Masses, the Gospel is chanted in Latin as well as the doxology (Per ipsum…). The collect can also be chanted.
J
Jenny_Z
Guest
Our priest was formerly an opera singer, and chants the consecration beautifully, when he does. We’re very lucky. I think it’s a beautiful way to celebrate the mass, when done right.
L
Lucyabe
Guest
L
Lucyabe
Guest
Thanks fodda - I couldn’t agree with you more. I certainly like Chanting, it is the SINGING with Piano accompaniment that distracted me terribly - I guess I just could not imagine Jesus doing this at all, and I also thought it was against canon law to have the music during the words of Consecration!
I am not sure if it is my little chat with him, or complaints and remarks from OTHERS, I know of a few, so I am sure there were more - but I am thanking God that he has stopped singing those words for several months now! I am so happy with the nearly proper R.C. celebration of Mass that we now have… here and there some improvements can be made, but overall it is a reverent celebration. After reading of some other horrific variations of the Mass around the diocese and country, I am grateful for what we have here!
I am not sure if it is my little chat with him, or complaints and remarks from OTHERS, I know of a few, so I am sure there were more - but I am thanking God that he has stopped singing those words for several months now! I am so happy with the nearly proper R.C. celebration of Mass that we now have… here and there some improvements can be made, but overall it is a reverent celebration. After reading of some other horrific variations of the Mass around the diocese and country, I am grateful for what we have here!
F
fodda23
Guest
It is always a good thing to be grateful for mass when the words of consecration are completely used, not changed around and the Eucharistic Prayer’s integrity is not messed with. A priest’s style is one thing, but making the mass your own as a priest is a very serious abuse.
To answer your question, there should be no tinkling on the piano, no soft music, no background music, NO MUSIC!
during the Eucharistic Prayer, the words of consecration, or even to accompany the doxology… (Through Him, with Him…)
Happy Feast of the Holy Family!
Peace:thumbsup:
To answer your question, there should be no tinkling on the piano, no soft music, no background music, NO MUSIC!
during the Eucharistic Prayer, the words of consecration, or even to accompany the doxology… (Through Him, with Him…)Happy Feast of the Holy Family!
Peace:thumbsup:
R
Rose_Maniple
Guest
There is an odd video of an excerpt of Haugen’s Mass of Creation, in which the EP is sung, but the Dominical Words themselves are a sort of singspiel. The organ is also, contra GIRM (I think), played throughout.
The only time I have seen the Canon sung was by a Lutheran pastor, who sang it in its entirety.
The only time I have seen the Canon sung was by a Lutheran pastor, who sang it in its entirety.
F
fodda23
Guest
It only took a few seconds to see that this priest is proud of his ability to sing, but again, singing with accompaniment or chanting with accompaniment is forbidden.
Musicam Sacram – Instruction on Music in the Liturgy (1967)
The use of musical instruments to accompany the singing can act as a support to the voices, render participation easier, and achieve a deeper union in the assembly. However, their sound should not so overwhelm the voices that it is difficult to make out the text; and when some part is proclaimed aloud by the priest or a minister by virtue of his role, they should be silent. (no. 64, emphasis added)
Musicam Sacram
In sung or said Masses, the organ, or other instrument legitimately admitted, can be used to accompany the singing of the choir and the people; it can also be played solo at the beginning before the priest reaches the altar, at the Offertory, at the Communion, and at the end of Mass. (no. 65, emphasis added)
Eucharistiae Participationem - Letter on Eucharistic Prayers (1973)
By its very nature the Eucharistic Prayer is the “center of the entire celebration,” and “a prayer of thanksgiving and sanctification” whose purpose is “that the whole congregation of the faithful may unite itself with Christ in proclaiming the wondrous things of God and in offering the sacrifice.” This prayer is offered by the ministering priest, who interprets God’s voice as it is addressed to the people and the people’s voice as they lift their souls to God. The priest alone should be heard, while the congregation gathered to celebrate the sacred liturgy remains devoutly silent. (no.8, emphasis added)
The General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM-1975) states:
“The nature of the presidential prayers demands that they be spoken in a loud and clear voice and that everyone present listen with attention. While the priest is reciting them there should be no other prayer and the organ or other instruments should not be played.”(no.12, emphasis added)
Notitiae (from 1977)_ confirms the above.
“This is a clear rule, leaving no doubt, since it is a reminder of wrong practices that have greatly impeded or diminished the people’s participation in this central part of the Mass. Further, it is obvious that the organ’s so-call background music often puts in the background what should be foremost and dominant. A ‘background’ accompaniment of the priest’s homily would be out of the question: but in the Eucharistic prayer the word of the presider, Tou proestou in Justins’s expression, reaches the peak of its meaning.” Notitiae 13 (1977) 94-95, no. 2 (emphasis added).
Inaestimabile donum (1980)
It should be remembered that the Eucharistic Prayer must not be overlaid with other prayers or songs. When proclaiming the Eucharistic Prayer, the priest is to pronounce the text clearly, so as to make it easy for the faithful to understand it, and so as to foster the formation of a true assembly entirely intent upon the celebration of the memorial of the Lord. (no.6, emphasis added)
General Instruction of the Roman Missal (Third Typical Edition) (2002)
32. The nature of the “presidential” texts demands that they be spoken in a loud and clear voice and that everyone listen with attention. Thus, while the priest is speaking these texts, there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent. (emphasis added).
Redemptionis Sacramentum (March, 2004)
[53.] While the Priest proclaims the Eucharistic Prayer “there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent”, except for the people’s acclamations that have been duly approved, as described below. (emphasis added).
Musicam Sacram – Instruction on Music in the Liturgy (1967)
The use of musical instruments to accompany the singing can act as a support to the voices, render participation easier, and achieve a deeper union in the assembly. However, their sound should not so overwhelm the voices that it is difficult to make out the text; and when some part is proclaimed aloud by the priest or a minister by virtue of his role, they should be silent. (no. 64, emphasis added)
Musicam Sacram
In sung or said Masses, the organ, or other instrument legitimately admitted, can be used to accompany the singing of the choir and the people; it can also be played solo at the beginning before the priest reaches the altar, at the Offertory, at the Communion, and at the end of Mass. (no. 65, emphasis added)
Eucharistiae Participationem - Letter on Eucharistic Prayers (1973)
By its very nature the Eucharistic Prayer is the “center of the entire celebration,” and “a prayer of thanksgiving and sanctification” whose purpose is “that the whole congregation of the faithful may unite itself with Christ in proclaiming the wondrous things of God and in offering the sacrifice.” This prayer is offered by the ministering priest, who interprets God’s voice as it is addressed to the people and the people’s voice as they lift their souls to God. The priest alone should be heard, while the congregation gathered to celebrate the sacred liturgy remains devoutly silent. (no.8, emphasis added)
The General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM-1975) states:
“The nature of the presidential prayers demands that they be spoken in a loud and clear voice and that everyone present listen with attention. While the priest is reciting them there should be no other prayer and the organ or other instruments should not be played.”(no.12, emphasis added)
Notitiae (from 1977)_ confirms the above.
“This is a clear rule, leaving no doubt, since it is a reminder of wrong practices that have greatly impeded or diminished the people’s participation in this central part of the Mass. Further, it is obvious that the organ’s so-call background music often puts in the background what should be foremost and dominant. A ‘background’ accompaniment of the priest’s homily would be out of the question: but in the Eucharistic prayer the word of the presider, Tou proestou in Justins’s expression, reaches the peak of its meaning.” Notitiae 13 (1977) 94-95, no. 2 (emphasis added).
Inaestimabile donum (1980)
It should be remembered that the Eucharistic Prayer must not be overlaid with other prayers or songs. When proclaiming the Eucharistic Prayer, the priest is to pronounce the text clearly, so as to make it easy for the faithful to understand it, and so as to foster the formation of a true assembly entirely intent upon the celebration of the memorial of the Lord. (no.6, emphasis added)
General Instruction of the Roman Missal (Third Typical Edition) (2002)
32. The nature of the “presidential” texts demands that they be spoken in a loud and clear voice and that everyone listen with attention. Thus, while the priest is speaking these texts, there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent. (emphasis added).
Redemptionis Sacramentum (March, 2004)
[53.] While the Priest proclaims the Eucharistic Prayer “there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent”, except for the people’s acclamations that have been duly approved, as described below. (emphasis added).
L
Lucyabe
Guest
Well, like I said our priest has stopped singing the Words of Consecration, and I am very thankful for that. He does sing the words of Final Doxology, with slight piano chord accompaniment, that leads us into the big AMEN. It sounds like this is “Against the rules” too, but it is NOT distracting, in fact it seems to make those words more meaningful - certainly more note worthy.
He did give us a beautiful Family homily and Family Blessing before the Final Blessing - so he did make it a special Holy Family Sunday.
He did give us a beautiful Family homily and Family Blessing before the Final Blessing - so he did make it a special Holy Family Sunday.
- Status