Sinlessness of Mary

[Redbaron998]

I took my Fiance, who regularly attends Mass with me and is planning on starting RCIA in the Fall (She grew up Baptist) to the Feast of the Immaculate Conception yesterday. The Priest emphaisized Mary’s complete sinlessness through all her life. (Which I agree with)

My Fiance however does not, I talked with her and while she has no problem assenting to the Doctrines of the Immaculate Conception and Assumption she is not so keen on assenting that she was completely without all sin throughout her life.

Now I would argue that Mary’s sinlessness is the natural outcome of her Immaculate Conception and the grace of God in her life, but while she assents to the teaching of her being born without original sin she does not agree that she was without all actual sin.

My question is not so much on whether Mary was free of all actual sin, but whether this will be a problem in her coming into the Church? She does assent to the Immaculate Conception and Assumption but does she have to assent to the complete sinlessness of Mary to become Catholic?

Thanks you, God Bless
-Redbaron998

 

[Della]

She probably doesn’t believe in Mary’s complete sinlessness because she has heard all her life that certain biblical passages refute it. Even if she can’t quote them, they’ve had an influence on her thinking. See if you can get her to tell you why she doesn’t believe in Mary’s sinlessness to see if it’s how she’s been taught all her life that is the problem.

If it’s not that, she probably just can’t picture it considering no one else has ever gone without sinning, except Jesus, of course. Try explaining how Mary is the Second Eve, the Mother of All Believers through whom God is recreating new men and women in Christ. That might help her.

 

[jpjd]

She needs to be open to trying to understand the teaching.

 

[joandarc2008]

I took my Fiance, who regularly attends Mass with me and is planning on starting RCIA in the Fall (She grew up Baptist) to the Feast of the Immaculate Conception yesterday. The Priest emphaisized Mary’s complete sinlessness through all her life. (Which I agree with)

My Fiance however does not, I talked with her and while she has no problem assenting to the Doctrines of the Immaculate Conception and Assumption she is not so keen on assenting that she was completely without all sin throughout her life.

Now I would argue that Mary’s sinlessness is the natural outcome of her Immaculate Conception and the grace of God in her life, but while she assents to the teaching of her being born without original sin she does not agree that she was without all actual sin.

My question is not so much on whether Mary was free of all actual sin, but whether this will be a problem in her coming into the Church? She does assent to the Immaculate Conception and Assumption but does she have to assent to the complete sinlessness of Mary to become Catholic?

Thanks you, God Bless
-Redbaron998

Something to think about - Original Sin is what tempts us towards regular old sin. So if your fiancee agrees that Mary was born without Original Sin - what temptation would she have had to have sinned in her life as she did not have the human drives to be lustful, greedy, manipulative, gossipy, etc.? Therefore the default for the Virgin Mary was not to sin.

 

[Theophorus]

I took my Fiance, who regularly attends Mass with me and is planning on starting RCIA in the Fall (She grew up Baptist) to the Feast of the Immaculate Conception yesterday. The Priest emphaisized Mary’s complete sinlessness through all her life. (Which I agree with)

My Fiance however does not, I talked with her and while she has no problem assenting to the Doctrines of the Immaculate Conception and Assumption she is not so keen on assenting that she was completely without all sin throughout her life.

Now I would argue that Mary’s sinlessness is the natural outcome of her Immaculate Conception and the grace of God in her life, but while she assents to the teaching of her being born without original sin she does not agree that she was without all actual sin.

My question is not so much on whether Mary was free of all actual sin, but whether this will be a problem in her coming into the Church? She does assent to the Immaculate Conception and Assumption but does she have to assent to the complete sinlessness of Mary to become Catholic?

Thanks you, God Bless
-Redbaron998

The sinlessness of Mary is a teaching of the Church so it may be an issue as is there not something in RCIA about holding the Catholic faith in its entirety?

Many I ask though your fiancée agrees that Mary was born sinless and that she was assumed into Heaven, where nothing unclean can enter, and that Mary had the grace of God in her life yet she believes that in some Mary was not without all actual sin?

Maybe as another poster has said it is a hold over from her past and that with time it won’t be such a problem for her.
God bless you both

 

[mcrow]

I don’t know the answer to your question (can she still be Catholic) as I don’t know of a formal Church ruling on what constitues being Catholic.

However, I’d say that Nicene Creed is probabably the best indicator.

 

[Waiting]

I took my Fiance, who regularly attends Mass with me and is planning on starting RCIA in the Fall (She grew up Baptist) to the Feast of the Immaculate Conception yesterday. The Priest emphaisized Mary’s complete sinlessness through all her life. (Which I agree with)

My Fiance however does not, I talked with her and while she has no problem assenting to the Doctrines of the Immaculate Conception and Assumption she is not so keen on assenting that she was completely without all sin throughout her life.

Now I would argue that Mary’s sinlessness is the natural outcome of her Immaculate Conception and the grace of God in her life, but while she assents to the teaching of her being born without original sin she does not agree that she was without all actual sin.

My question is not so much on whether Mary was free of all actual sin, but whether this will be a problem in her coming into the Church? She does assent to the Immaculate Conception and Assumption but does she have to assent to the complete sinlessness of Mary to become Catholic?

Thanks you, God Bless
-Redbaron998

As Mary was free from original sin from her conception, she was never under the influence of a fallen human nature. She lived in the presence of God all her life, especially after Jesus was conceived, and until His death. What incentive would be there to sin? Who could sin in the presence of God? The CCC says, “Mary benefited first of all and uniquely from Christ’s victory over sin: she was preserved from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life.”

 

[po18guy]

Two suggestions that both of you might benefit from:

1. Catholicism for Dummies by Fr. John Trigilio and Fr. Kenneth Brighenti
   Study of this book will render her overqualified for RCIA.
2. Mary, Mother of the Son trilogy by Evangelical convert Mark Shea.

I’ve been recommending the Dummies book on the basis of its authors. I recently obtained a copy for myself. Glad I did. Every parish’s adult education program should use or at least have this book available.

Christ’s peace.

 

[PJM]

=Redbaron998;7348602]I took my Fiance, who regularly attends Mass with me and is planning on starting RCIA in the Fall (She grew up Baptist) to the Feast of the Immaculate Conception yesterday. The Priest emphaisized Mary’s complete sinlessness through all her life. (Which I agree with)

My Fiance however does not, I talked with her and while she has no problem assenting to the Doctrines of the Immaculate Conception and Assumption she is not so keen on assenting that she was completely without all sin throughout her life.

Now I would argue that Mary’s sinlessness is the natural outcome of her Immaculate Conception and the grace of God in her life, but while she assents to the teaching of her being born without original sin she does not agree that she was without all actual sin.

My question is not so much on whether Mary was free of all actual sin, but whether this will be a problem in her coming into the Church? She does assent to the Immaculate Conception and Assumption but does she have to assent to the complete sinlessness of Mary to become Catholic?

Thanks you, God Bless
-Redbaron998

***God Bless you BOTH!

The answer is BOTH simple and Prfound.

Becaue God Himself is Perfect, Mary in order to accept being th Mother of God [Luke 1:26-35], too had to be Perfected. [The key here is HAD TO BE].

The Son of God could issue forth from a sinfull mother! Nor could the Mother of God, sin after hving given Birth to Jesus the very Son of God.

For God all good things are possible; and these certainly ARE good things

Pull out your Bible nd th two of you review Exodus chpter 25,26, 27 and NOTE how demanding Yahweh God was fo HIS “Ark of the Covenant.”

Time and time again GOLD, and Pure-Gold are demanded!

So if God demaned [he DiD] this for “His Spirit” HOW MUCH MORE; HOW MUCH GREATER WOULD BE HIS EXPETAITIONS FOR THE LIVING TABERNACLE THAT WOULD BE HOME FOR HIS SON?***

The Ark contained: The Commandmnts, the Staff of Moses [used for water from the rock], and a small amout of Manna that was miraculously persevered. The Living tabernacle; Mary’s womb bore the Son of God.

Matt.5: 48 “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect”

Nothing Less than alsolute perfection is SITABLE for nd too Almighty God.

Further this extends to all who attain heaven; they too MUST be Perfected before God allows them [us] into heaven!

** Rev.21: 27** “But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”

My friend, I hope you find this usefull. If you have aditional questions or needs, please PM me…

PJM

God’s continued Blessings.
Pat