Sinlessness

[Jzyehoshua]

Alright, OUTSIDE OF MARY AND JESUS, is there anyone in the Bible that is believed to be sinless? Mary and Jesus have been heavily talked about already, and I’m curious whether the Catholic Church teaches anyone else was sinless.

 

[fbl9]

there is no one else that is sinless

 

[Jzyehoshua]

there is no one else that is sinless

Ok, thanks. I’d heard Job was held in high regard and was specifically thinking about him when I asked this topic.

 

[guanophore]

Alright, OUTSIDE OF MARY AND JESUS, is there anyone in the Bible that is believed to be sinless? Mary and Jesus have been heavily talked about already, and I’m curious whether the Catholic Church teaches anyone else was sinless.

There were some very righteous folks, like the parents of John the Baptist:

5 There was in the days of Herod, king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abijah: and he had a wife of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 **And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. **

7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

If they sinned, they must have repented immediately, because there is no other way to be righteous before God.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I believe as far as Scripture is concern, Zacharias, Elizabeth, and even John, the Baptist. The real answer to the question is, is the person a living in righteousness? Of course you know what that means, or do I have to defined it for you in Scripture.

 

[SaintNobody]

It is a pious theological tradition that John the Baptist was believed to be sanctified by the Holy Spirit in the womb, i.e. he was freed from Original Sin, and therefore sinless. But this is simply an opinion.

 

[Nita]

It is a pious theological tradition that John the Baptist was believed to be sanctified by the Holy Spirit in the womb, i.e. he was freed from Original Sin, and therefore sinless. But this is simply an opinion.

The sanctification by the Holy Spirit did not take place at the moment of conception however - Elizabeth was 6 months pregnant when Mary came to visit. So, for 6 months John would have been in the state of original sin.

Also, there is no teaching about sins he may have committed after birth. It is only Jesus and Mary about whom the Church teaches that they remained sinless throughout their lives.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Adam and Eve had no original sin and no personal sin before the Fall.

Jesus and Mary had no original sin and no personal sin at all.

my theological opinion is that it is possible for someone, by a special gift of God, to have original sin, but no personal sin at all. I believe that John the Baptist and St. Joseph both had original sin, but no personal sin. However, this is theological speculation. I also believe that the First Fruits of Revelation 14 will have a similar state.

 

[epostle]

We are sinless after confession and penance, and after Holy Communion, we are walking Tabernacles. We have a perfect human model of faith that leads all of us to live a life “full of grace”, Our Blessed Mom. “Running the race” as St. Paul puts it, leading to Christian perfection and sanctity, is attainable. One never arrives, but our hearts are transformed by coperating with God’s grace, and it takes a lifetime, or longer.

We confess our sins for two reasons.

1. we have done something that would hurt ourselves or another person, and we have cut ourselves off from God.
2. we confess minor sins as a devotion to grow into holiness.

Sinlessness is a state that God intended for all humanity. Sinfulness is not the norm.
Not only did Jesus die for our sins, but we can now share in His very Divine Life. That is what is good about the good news.

Salvation is a free gift, not an irrevocable ticket, not a spiritual tattoo, and not a white-wash.

 

[Jzyehoshua]

I believe as far as Scripture is concern, Zacharias, Elizabeth, and even John, the Baptist. The real answer to the question is, is the person a living in righteousness? Of course you know what that means, or do I have to defined it for you in Scripture.

John the Baptist said he wasn’t even worthy to bear the shoes of Jesus though, right?

As for the definition of righteousness, I like the Scofield note on it for Luke 2:25:

RIGHTEOUSNESS
OLD TESTAMENT, SUMMARY

The words “righteous” and “just” are used to translate the Hebrew yashar, “upright”, tsaddiq, “just.” In these words but one idea inheres: the righteous or just man is so called because he is right with God; and he is right with God because he has walked “in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord” (Lk. 1:6; compare Rom. 10:5; Phil. 3:6). The O.T. righteous man was not sinless (Eccl. 7:20) but one who, for his sins, trusted the coming Messiah and offered in faith the required sacrifice (e.g. Lev. 4:27-35). Compare Righteousness (N.T.), and Rom. 10:10, note, and Paul’s contrast, Phil. 3:4-9.

Some examples of men who were declared righteous (verses show where) yet also clearly sinned:

-Noah (Genesis 7:1, Ezekiel 14:14), who made the mistake of getting drunk and thus got taken advantage of by his daughters.
-David (1 Samuel 29:6, 2 Samuel 22:21-24), who committed adultery with a woman, fathered an illegitimate child with her, had her husband killed to cover it up, got rebuked by God’s prophet for hiding it, and was severely punished by God as a result.
-Job (Job 1:1, 1:8, 2:3, Ezekiel 14:14), ended up admitting at the end of the book that he had talked about things he knew nothing about, so that he abhorred himself and repented in dust and ashes.
-Daniel (Ezekiel 14:14), specifically admitted he had sinned and committed iniquity (Daniel 9:5-20).

 

[Mannyfit75]

John the Baptist said he wasn’t even worthy to bear the shoes of Jesus though, right?

He is a humble man who humble himself to God and do His will. He did say he is not even worthy to bear the shoes of Jesus, that doesn’t make him a sinful person.

As for the definition of righteousness, I like the Scofield note on it for Luke 2:25:

Some examples of men who were declared righteous (verses show where) yet also clearly sinned:

-Noah (Genesis 7:1, Ezekiel 14:14), who made the mistake of getting drunk and thus got taken advantage of by his daughters.
-David (1 Samuel 29:6, 2 Samuel 22:21-24), who committed adultery with a woman, fathered an illegitimate child with her, had her husband killed to cover it up, got rebuked by God’s prophet for hiding it, and was severely punished by God as a result.
-Job (Job 1:1, 1:8, 2:3, Ezekiel 14:14), ended up admitting at the end of the book that he had talked about things he knew nothing about, so that he abhorred himself and repented in dust and ashes.
-Daniel (Ezekiel 14:14), specifically admitted he had sinned and committed iniquity (Daniel 9:5-20).

The point of the matter is this. They sinned and repented. Many of the saints of the Church were no different. They sinned and repented. Saul sinned before his conversion and became Paul. St. Augustine, my patron saint lived a sinful life. But their actions, a Christians through the merits of God’s grace can live sinless lives if they live the commandments. You don’t live by these, and sin, you die a second death. Of course if you repent, you will be reward.

 

[guanophore]

I believe as far as Scripture is concern, Zacharias, Elizabeth, and even John, the Baptist. The real answer to the question is, is the person a living in righteousness? Of course you know what that means, or do I have to defined it for you in Scripture.

Yes, At least, I think so. Is that what the OP was asking? Or about people born without original sin?

It is a pious theological tradition that John the Baptist was believed to be sanctified by the Holy Spirit in the womb, i.e. he was freed from Original Sin, and therefore sinless. But this is simply an opinion.

It is my understanding that John the Baptist was conceived in original sin, but not born with it, because He was filled with the Spirit upon the visitation of the Lord to Elizabeth, so that the prophesy would be fulfilled that he would be filled with the Spirit “even from his mother’s womb”.

Scripture doesn’t ever indicate that He fell from grace. He did have some doubts, and sent his disciples to jesus to ask if He was the One Who Was to Come.

 

[guanophore]

The point of the matter is this. They sinned and repented. Many of the saints of the Church were no different. They sinned and repented. But their actions, a Christians through the merits of God’s grace can live sinless lives if they live the commandments. You don’t live by these, and sin, you die a second death. Of course if you repent, you will be reward.

I believe this is the case for those who were raised from the graves at the crucifixion.

Matt 27:51-54

51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; 52 the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

I always wonder if these folks hung around for 40 days, then went into heaven with Jesus, or what?

 

[Ron_Conte]

I think that John the Baptist’s unworthiness and his weaknesses are due to original sin, i.e. he still had the remnant of original sin called concupiscence.

 

[EHRAM]

And, according to Matthew 1:19, St. Joseph was a righteous man.

It is my understanding that Our Lady of America is an approved apparition. If I am mistaken, I ask the moderators to delete the this portion of my message:

In Oct 1956, St. Joseph said to Sister Mary Ephrem that he was cleansed from original sin immediately after conception and never had the slightest stain on his soul.
ourladyofamerica.com/pdf/OLOA_Messages_Internet.pdf