Sinner's Prayer not Biblical Evangelical Admits

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. What I have told people is to pray and ask God to save them, and to keep on praying until He does and when He does they will know it.

Born a sinner, Born again a Baptist
allischalmers
Hi allischalmers, sorry to step in, but you are the first person I’ve heard put it this way. The Baptists and evangelicals I know have alwasy told me that once they pray and ask for God’s salvation they can be assured they have it.

Your response above seems to imply that it may take awhile for God to save someone - or at least take awhile unitl they know it. Can you explain what you mean by ‘keep praying until He does and when He does they will know it’? Since they have to keep praying until God saves them, does this mean that God may delay a particular person’s salvation for some reason (what reason?)? Or, does it mean God grants salvation to those who ask, but it may just take awhile for that person to come to the knowledge that God has saved him/her. If this is the case, how do they finally know? Is it a feeling they get? A sense of peace?

I hope these aren’t stupid questions, but your response is very different from what I’ve heard others who (I think) share your beliefs say. Thank you!
 
Hmmm…

I don’t recall any verse saying all we have to do is believe… remember, even the demons believe…

Saying all we have to do is believe is very dangerous and NOT biblical. You still have to act on that belief. Belief is important, dont get me wrong…

Indirectly, you are also saying this…

If all i do is believe… But NEVER do anything christ asks of me… Just believe… Then I will be saved…

Christ disagrees with you on this point very explicitly…

“Why do you call me Lord Lord…”
“You must keep the Commandments…”
“You must bare good fruit…”
The story of the Withered Fig Tree

No where does Jesus say all you must do is believe

The various letters says the same…
“You must endure to the end…”
“Work out your faith with fear and trembling…”
“I can show you my faith by my works… you show me yours without works…”

No where do the letters claim by belief or faith alone either

People that do profess but don’t do are however called one thing in the bible…
Hypocrites…

Please dont preach that i never have to follow His words… and that all I have to do is ONLY believe. This is a deception of the devil

In christ
 
Hi
I belong to a GARBC church.
The problem I have with the altar call and sinners prayer is that lot of times it is does in an very emotional environment. I have heard from people in other churches of people who walk to the altar and say the sinners prayer and they are there at church for a short time, but then they are no where to be seem.
When this happens they send their outreach team to visit them and it offen turns out that they want no more to do with God and the church.
Then I know of people that have said the sinner prayer and and were true Christians. But I do not think that they were saved by saying the sinners prayer. God saves them by the hearing of the Word before they said the sinners prayer.
That being said no pastor in my Baptist ch urch has ever given an altar call that I can remember. However they have made statements ant the end of a service like “if someone has any questions about our church or salvation they can go to one of our counciling rooms and soneone will be there that they cam talk too.”

forever Baptist
allischalmers
Oh wow a Regular Baptist eh? You’re the first that I’ve met very interesting. So does your church espouse general or particular election? You can PM me if you don’t want take away from the thread. I’m just curious.

Thanks for sharing your views on Alter Calls. I was just making a point that for very possibly the majority of Baptists that is the normalized method of salvation. Though since Baptist congregations in the SBC and IBC tend to be democratic this could (and probably will) change as time goes on.
 
Hmmm…

I don’t recall any verse saying all we have to do is believe… remember, even the demons believe…

Saying all we have to do is believe is very dangerous and NOT biblical. You still have to act on that belief. Belief is important, dont get me wrong…

Indirectly, you are also saying this…

If all i do is believe… But NEVER do anything christ asks of me… Just believe… Then I will be saved…

Christ disagrees with you on this point very explicitly…

“Why do you call me Lord Lord…”
“You must keep the Commandments…”
“You must bare good fruit…”
The story of the Withered Fig Tree

No where does Jesus say all you must do is believe

The various letters says the same…
“You must endure to the end…”
“Work out your faith with fear and trembling…”
“I can show you my faith by my works… you show me yours without works…”

No where do the letters claim by belief or faith alone either

People that do profess but don’t do are however called one thing in the bible…
Hypocrites…

Please dont preach that i never have to follow His words… and that all I have to do is ONLY believe. This is a deception of the devil

In christ
Acts 16: 30 and 31
“And they brought them out, and said’ sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ , and thou shalt be saved,”

born a sinner Born again Baptist
 
Acts 16: 30 and 31
“And they brought them out, and said’ sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ , and thou shalt be saved,”
[1 Corinthians 13:2](http://www.whereinthebible.org/1 Corinthians 13:2)
And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
 
[1 Corinthians 13:2](http://www.whereinthebible.org/1 Corinthians 13:2)
And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
I John 4:19
"We love Him because He first loved us’

Unless we experence the love Christ first we will never know the type of love that 1 Corinthians 13;2 is talking about.

allischalmers
 
Good morning Allis…

For starters… though i stand by what i said… i want to apologize. I was a little grouchy yesterday overall and felt I may have taken some of my frustrations out in my response. If I offended, please forgive me.

However, I do want to comment that scripture cannot contradict itself… There is another verse that I mentioned that if all we had to do is believe, would create a problem. This is the Instance where a man comes up to Jesus and asks “What must I do to get in heaven” His response was simply obey the commandments and follow him.

So, how does this mix with the verse you provided if scripture is not contradictory…

It is answered relatively simple. TO say you believe in Christ means you must also believe that what he said was true. Christ said Keep the Commandments.He also gives 3 chapters worth of ‘things you must do’ in Matthew as well as plenty of other places. If you believe him, you are required to believe that he meant it. If you do NOT do what he said, then by your actions, you are saying you do not believe. I do NOT mean that some magical force will cause you to do this, I am just saying, if you claim to believe, but do not do what you claim to believe, Christ himself calls these people Hypocrites.

So, is this verse saying all we have to do is believe? Absolutely not. If you Believe, you will must choose to do what he says, if you don’t, you are by your actions saying you do not believe…

Again, I apologize for any transgression from yesterday.I should have stayed away from the forums if I knew I would be somewhat curt.

In Christ
 
by the way…
I John 4:19
"We love Him because He first loved us’
Totally and 100% agree…

But these do not mean that it is ALL we have to do

In Christ
 
I John 4:19
"We love Him because He first loved us’

Unless we experence the love Christ first we will never know the type of love that 1 Corinthians 13;2 is talking about.

allischalmers
by the way…

Totally and 100% agree…

But these do not mean that it is ALL we have to do

In Christ
Love Him is to love others. Love others is to do good deeds.
Love Him alone won’t be enough.

Anyhow, I shouldn’t keep this thread derailed.
 
Good morning Allis…

For starters… though i stand by what i said… i want to apologize. I was a little grouchy yesterday overall and felt I may have taken some of my frustrations out in my response. If I offended, please forgive me.

However, I do want to comment that scripture cannot contradict itself… There is another verse that I mentioned that if all we had to do is believe, would create a problem. This is the Instance where a man comes up to Jesus and asks “What must I do to get in heaven” His response was simply obey the commandments and follow him.

So, how does this mix with the verse you provided if scripture is not contradictory…

It is answered relatively simple. TO say you believe in Christ means you must also believe that what he said was true. Christ said Keep the Commandments.He also gives 3 chapters worth of ‘things you must do’ in Matthew as well as plenty of other places. If you believe him, you are required to believe that he meant it. If you do NOT do what he said, then by your actions, you are saying you do not believe. I do NOT mean that some magical force will cause you to do this, I am just saying, if you claim to believe, but do not do what you claim to believe, Christ himself calls these people Hypocrites.

So, is this verse saying all we have to do is believe? Absolutely not. If you Believe, you will must choose to do what he says, if you don’t, you are by your actions saying you do not believe…

Again, I apologize for any transgression from yesterday.I should have stayed away from the forums if I knew I would be somewhat curt.

In Christ
I agree!
If you a true believer than you will want to be obedent to God’s Word. Obedence to God’s Word is evidence that we are allready a believer

Born a sinner Bornagain a Baptist
allischalmers
 
If you a true believer than you will want to be obedient to God’s Word. Obedience to God’s Word is evidence that we are already a believer
I have zero problem with this statement under one condition 🙂

As long as it is understood that we still have to choose to do those things, I’m OK with that statement. I’ve heard far to many people say you will just automatic know and do… almost like you dont have to choose. This is mroe in line with Mysticism, and Not Biblical

There will be days you don’t want to follow him… it’s going to happen… Its doing it when you DON’T want to that your obedience truly shows. However, as long as you are obedient, the occasional lack of desire does not mean you aren’t a true believer.
That being said… if you continue to choose not to do it, you loose the justification that god offered you. You did have it when you were obedient, but the moment you become disobedient, you’ve got a problem and your salvation is lost, even though you did at one time have it.

In Christ
 
Are you implying a corporate salvation, as opposed to individual salvation, and a corporate damnation, as opposed to individual damnation?

If so, then only one corporate group will be saved, and the other one will be damned.

According to you, which are the vessels of wrath (the ones who will be damned), Jews, or Gentiles?

And, which are the vessels of mercy (the ones who will be saved), Jews, or Gentiles?

Now you seem to be promoting individual salvation.

What do you believe?

Depends on how OSAS is defined.

Antinomianism “OSAS”
• One need not persevere in faith to be saved.
• True believers can lose their faith.
• Those who lose their faith are saved, since they once believed.
“The believer who loses his faith is saved.”

Classic Calvinism “OSAS”
• One must persevere in faith to be saved.
• True believers cannot lose their faith, since it’s God’s gift.
• Those dying without faith in Christ are condemned.
• Those who “lose” their faith never had it to begin with.
• God will preserve true believers and they will be saved.
“The ‘believer’ who loses his faith never really had it—or at least it wasn’t in Jesus.”

Antinomianism “OSAS” is unbiblical; the other is very biblical.
No different than Allischalmers use of “elect”–the corporate is made up of individuals, is it not?

Romans 9:23,24 “…vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, EVEN US, whom He also called, not from among JEWS ONLY, BUT ALSO from among GENTILES.”

Anyone can become a vessel for honor–2 Tim 2:21 “THEREFORE, if a man cleanses himself from these things, HE WILL BE a vessel for honor.”

My point was a vessel of dishonor isn’t permanently destined for the trashheap if it is cleansed.

Re OSAS:

The whole thing contradicts itself–why must you persevere in faith if you can’t lose it, but if you do lose it, which you said you can’t, but if you do, how can you lose something you never had to begin with, and if God preserves true believers and they can’t be lost anyway, than why would you need to persevere???:hmmm:

Marquette
 
The sinner’s prayer being said does not mean much of anything from the outside…God knows the heart. Whether a person was born again and received the Holy Spirit at that moment, God only knows.

Marquette,

I do not think you can place Romans 9:21 next to 2Timothy 2:21.

The truth is, however, for the elect…God not only ordains the end of the elect (heaven) but also ordains the means…our works/purification through sanctification, etc. We are responsible to follow God’s Word and live a life of holiness and yield ourselves to God as Christians…there is no doubt about that. We were bought with a price (those of us who are saved) and are to walk worthy of our calling. A good example of this (God ordaining the end and the means) is in Acts 27:

A large group of people are in a ship with Paul and they run into some weather…Paul says - we will all be saved!!!

Ac 27:22 And now I exhort you to be of good cheer: for there shall be no loss of any man’s life among you, but of the ship.
23 For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,
24 Saying, Fear not, Paul; thou must be brought before Caesar: and, lo, God hath given thee all them that sail with thee.

So, does that mean we all sit back and glory!! No (although we have a hope)…God also ordained the means by which this will happen…look what happens later.

Ac 27:30 And as the shipmen were about to flee out of the ship, when they had let down the boat into the sea, under colour as though they would have cast anchors out of the foreship,
31 Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved.

God ultimately decreed that they would be saved…BUT…those experienced sailors had to stay in the ship and be those that would God’s means prepared by Him beforehand. We we say that we are saved…God has not only promised our ultimate salvation, but has also prepared our works beforehand…it is all of God.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Christ says definitively…

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Election is true and God saves some and passes over others…and the truth is, none of us deserve salvation at all. We all deserve judgment unless we are the elect that have come to saving faith i the gospel. We were chosen before the foundation of the world…before we ever did one good work!
 
Election is true and God saves some and passes over others
Again… Major issues with this statement.

GOD DOES NOT ELECT SOME FOR HEAVEN AND SOME FOR HELL…

This is Not biblical, and very wrong and not supported in the bible anywhere. He offers everyone that chance at salvation EVERYONE… It is whether or not we accept it that is the key.

God will not condemn someone to hell. That goes counter to his perfect love… we have to choose it. Thats part of what makes his love so complete. Based on the idea of ‘election’ as some espouse it, I could follow christ to the best of my abilities, follow his word, do everything he teaches. Believe in him completely with total faith and devotion and still not get in if I am not elect. the flip side is that if I am elect, I could do everything wrong and still get to heaven…

Show me where THAT is in the bible…

Further more, please do not use the saying… If you are a true believer, you will have not have a choice and you will just do. This is actually COUNTER to scripture. This Bad idea comes from a BAD understanding of the word Faith. Faith simply means the belief in something not yet seen. That is what the bible teaches. It does not mean that something magical happens to completely change you so you no longer have free will…

The idea of elect as it is espoused by Hyper Calvinist and some Baptists is so Anti-Biblical and Anti-Christian that it goes beyond just bad theology…

In order to believe this theology, it requires selected some verses improperly, and denying others completely, or even worse… twisting what a verse means.

Sorry to be so harsh, but his whole idea of people being selected for heaven and selected from hell is so disturbing and anti-Christian, i just don’t see how anyone can believe it.

In Christ
 
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Marquette:
No different than Allischalmers use of “elect”–the corporate is made up of individuals, is it not?

Romans 9:23,24 “…vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, EVEN US, whom He also called, not from among JEWS ONLY, BUT ALSO from among GENTILES.”
Forgive me, I misunderstood; that is why I asked for clarification.
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Marquette:
Anyone can become a vessel for honor–2 Tim 2:21 “THEREFORE, if a man cleanses himself from these things, HE WILL BE a vessel for honor.”
You are taking that verse out of context; it does not say what you think it says; the one being spoken of in v21 is identified in v19. Is that one who is able to cleanse himself just any old one? Or, is he a specific one?
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Marquette:
My point was a vessel of dishonor isn’t permanently destined for the trashheap if it is cleansed.
Again, yours is an a-contextual understanding, and it is not the meaning of the passage.
(cf Jn 6:44: which one in all of humanity has the ability to come to Christ on his own?)
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Marquette:
Re OSAS:

The whole thing contradicts itself–why must you persevere in faith if you can’t lose it, but if you do lose it, which you said you can’t, but if you do, how can you lose something you never had to begin with, and if God preserves true believers and they can’t be lost anyway, than why would you need to persevere???
Jesus says it is the one who endures to the end who will be saved, right?

So, in order for you to believe something, it must be logical and rational, is that right?

Give me a logical and rational reasoning of how, and why one must eat the flesh and blood of Jesus to have life in themselves, please.
 
Give me a logical and rational reasoning of how, and why one must eat the flesh and blood of Jesus to have life in themselves, please
Good Afternoon Sandusky…

If I may, I would like to take the chance to answer this. I mentioned it before in a different thread, but I will try and summarize here.

First and foremost, it must be remembered that Jesus did not come to Abolish the law, but Fulfill it. That is the premise that must be understood first.

Hebrews explains in detail why we as a people are no longer obliged to the law and How Jesus takes up the law unto himself

Anyway…

If you recall, In the OT, specifically in Leviticus and Exodus, God gives VERY detailed instructions on the sacrifice for sins. It was a literal sacrifice, and the flesh had to literally be eaten to complete the process for atonement.

Since the old is revealed in the new, how does this relate.
Obviously, Christ is the Sacrifice made. No one here can deny that. However, the sacrifice must still be literally eaten. That is where the Eucharist comes in. When a priest performs the Miracle of Transubstantiation, the one time sacrifice of Christ become literally available to those partaking in the Eucharist. It is not a symbolic gesture, it is a literal eating of the sacrifice that is made available in Holy Communion.

Christ in his own way reiterates the second part of the levitical law when he says in John 6 truly i tell you, you must eat my flesh and drink my blood to obtain eternal life.

If the flesh is not eaten, the sacrificial act is not completed by the individual

The Law still applies, its just Jesus that Takes it upon Himself.

Hope that helps…

In Christ
 
Again… Major issues with this statement.

GOD DOES NOT ELECT SOME FOR HEAVEN AND SOME FOR HELL…

This is Not biblical, and very wrong and not supported in the bible anywhere. He offers everyone that chance at salvation EVERYONE… It is whether or not we accept it that is the key.

God will not condemn someone to hell. That goes counter to his perfect love… we have to choose it. Thats part of what makes his love so complete. Based on the idea of ‘election’ as some espouse it, I could follow christ to the best of my abilities, follow his word, do everything he teaches. Believe in him completely with total faith and devotion and still not get in if I am not elect. the flip side is that if I am elect, I could do everything wrong and still get to heaven…

Show me where THAT is in the bible…

Further more, please do not use the saying… If you are a true believer, you will have not have a choice and you will just do. This is actually COUNTER to scripture. This Bad idea comes from a BAD understanding of the word Faith. Faith simply means the belief in something not yet seen. That is what the bible teaches. It does not mean that something magical happens to completely change you so you no longer have free will…

The idea of elect as it is espoused by Hyper Calvinist and some Baptists is so Anti-Biblical and Anti-Christian that it goes beyond just bad theology…

In order to believe this theology, it requires selected some verses improperly, and denying others completely, or even worse… twisting what a verse means.

Sorry to be so harsh, but his whole idea of people being selected for heaven and selected from hell is so disturbing and anti-Christian, i just don’t see how anyone can believe it.

In Christ
I think what you will find is that this theology does not come about by picking some scriptures over others but by taking sets of scriptures that are not necessarily contradictory but complementary in nature. Your statement about doing all things to please the Lord and not getting to heaven and then having someone who is elect and living an awful life (but going to heaven) does not stand up to scripture. This is simply due to the fact that you believe your own goodness is what merits heaven which is not the case (nobody can please the Lord without being one of the elect - all have sinned - and those who are born of God and are of the elect will manifest the characteristics as outlined in 1 John and in other places in scripture). Even Jesus said…

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

What does it say in Jeremiah 32…

Jer 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

OR

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

The power of God changes people at the rebirth…

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

I think if you read Romans chapter 9 and study it, you will find that it explains election in great detail that is undeniable. And there are questions in that chapter for people like yourself…

Who are you to reply against God?? Is their unrighteousness with God?? Is God not just…cannot He do whatever He pleases??? DO YOU DESERVE SALVATION??? Read it and study it with a heart set on seeking truth.

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
 
If you go back to the Old Testament, the Jews were God’s CHOSEN people, HOWEVER, there were also GERIM–God fearers, Gentiles who became part of the Jewish nation by adopting the Torah, the practices, and the culture. They were called Proselytes in the New Testament. So, even though God CHOSE the Jewish people, there was a way for Gentiles to come in. In the New Testament, Peter says in Acts 10:28 that “God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean.” Why did he say this? Because in verse 15 God said, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.” (Cornelius–a God fearer i.e. Gerim or Proselyte–had sent for Peter) Peter goes on in verses 34 and 35 to say “I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right, is welcome to Him.” In Acts 11:18, Peter refers to this as “the repentance that leads to life.” The vessels of wrath were the Gentiles and the vessels of mercy, the Jews, but even the dishonorable vessels could become vessels for honor in both the Old Testament and New Testament by being cleansed.

I was raised in and attended the Baptist church until the age of 36 and then changed to a Covenant church (I became Catholic at age 59), and both denominations taught OSAS, with “saved” meaning you said the sinner’s prayer. I even heard preachers say that if you don’t have a date and place you said the prayer, you aren’t saved. It was ALWAYS taught that once you said that prayer, you were saved and NOTHING could change that. Well, maybe if you cursed God and said He didn’t exist at some future time, but then you probably would have just been called a “carnal Christian.” The favorite Baptist verse was always John 3:16 with …“whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Well, turn the page to verse 36, “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who DOES NOT OBEY the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

What were Jesus’ instructions when he sent out his eleven disciples in Matthew 28:19, 20 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you…”

Re OSAS, it is possible to have your name erased from the Book of Life–Exodus 32:32,33 and Rev.3:5 God will not be mocked, and He has the power to remove it.
 
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Marquette:
If you go back to the Old Testament, the Jews were God’s CHOSEN people, HOWEVER, there were also GERIM–God fearers, Gentiles who became part of the Jewish nation by adopting the Torah, the practices, and the culture.
Ruth and Rahab come to mind.

And in Gen 12:3 God promise through Abraham that all of the nations would be blessed; Paul said that God preached the Gospel to Abraham at that time (Gal 3:8; cf Jn 8:56ff).
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Marquette:
The vessels of wrath were the Gentiles and the vessels of mercy, the Jews, but even the dishonorable vessels could become vessels for honor in both the Old Testament and New Testament by being cleansed.
Cleansed by whom? Of the vessels of mercy in Rom 9:23 it is said, “He [God] prepared [them] beforehand for glory” that is a passive, IOW, the vessels had no part in the preparation, but passively received the preparation beforehand (cf Eph 1:4, 5; Rom 8:29, 30).
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Marquette:
The favorite Baptist verse was always John 3:16 with …“whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Well, turn the page to verse 36, “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who DOES NOT OBEY the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Does not obey is translated from the Gk apeitheō, literally reject belief or refuse to believe, thus the translation, “does not obey.” The disobedience is that they continuously refuse to believe
(it is a participle) cf Jn 3:18.
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Marquette:
Re OSAS, it is possible to have your name erased from the Book of Life–Exodus 32:32,33 and Rev.3:5 God will not be mocked, and He has the power to remove it.
There are different types of “books” in the OT and NT; the two that you have mentioned are the books of the living, and life. Ex 32:33, 34 refers to the book of the living (cf Ps 69:28 sēper, hayyim]); among the ancients that was a register that recorded the names of the people, and their names were “blotted out,” or “crossed out” upon their (untimely) death (cf Ex 17:14; Dt 9:14; 29:20; 2 Kgs 14:27—note the phrase, “blot out from under heaven”). Moses is saying to God, “if you kill them, kill me too.” Moses was among the elect, God would never blot out his name from the book of life. (For more on the various books see, The ISBE Revised, Eerdman’s Publishing, 1979, vol. I, p 534).

It is impossible for one’s name to be erased from The Book of Life (cf Rev 3:5). In that passage, you assume that because Jesus will not blot out the name of the overcomers [elect], that the converse is true, but that is not the case as only the overcomers will be saved (cf Mt 10:22; 24:13; Mk 13:13), and that not of their own power, but God’s (1 Pet 1:5; cf Jn 10:28; Php 4:7).

The statement in Rev 3:5, “I will not erase…,” is better translated, “I will not, no never erase…,” it is a double-negative in the Gk, ou mā, the strength of that construction is meant to comfort, not threaten; however, there are those whose names are not written in that book (13:8; 17:8; 20:15).

Anyway, in an earlier post I asked you if you would give me a logical and rational reasoning of how, and why one must eat the flesh and blood of Jesus to have life in themselves; have you thought about an answer for that?
 
A “good” protestant will just demand, “Show me which book it is not in!”
 
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