Sinning While We Sleep?

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If one has impure thoughts in one’s dreams is that considered a sin? The answer seems simple enough - no. Still, I’m not 100% certain on this. I’ve heard of rare instances where people commit various acts while sleep walking. A man in England strangled his wife while sleep walking - believing she was an intruder. The courts found him not guilty but what about his moral culpability?

Seeking impute from current members on this - thanks.
 
smackbean said:
If one has impure thoughts in one’s dreams is that considered a sin? The answer seems simple enough - no. Still, I’m not 100% certain on this. I’ve heard of rare instances where people commit various acts while sleep walking. A man in England strangled his wife while sleep walking - believing she was an intruder. The courts found him not guilty but what about his moral culpability?

Seeking impute from current members on this - thanks.
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No.

We can not sin while we are asleep.
 
How in the world can you sin while asleep?

Psychiatrists are still out on what dreams are, much less on if we can control them.
 
smackbean said:
If one has impure thoughts in one’s dreams is that considered a sin? The answer seems simple enough - no. Still, I’m not 100% certain on this. I’ve heard of rare instances where people commit various acts while sleep walking. A man in England strangled his wife while sleep walking - believing she was an intruder. The courts found him not guilty but what about his moral culpability?

Seeking impute from current members on this - thanks.
Click to expand...
Sin cannot be imputed while you are asleep.

However I think that your question/concern is a good one and bears examining a bit.

Jesus taught us that what we think can be sinful as well as what we do. Remember that if you look lustfully at a women you’ve already committed adultery with her.
Now I’m not saying that our thoughts while sleeping are held to the same standard as when we are awake, but certainly can point to areas where we might need to pray about.
So in that way I’d say that such dreams are less of a “sin” and more of a “caution” from Our Lord to help us improve.

Peace
James
 
Instead of whistle while you work, I’m now humming sinning while we sleep!

:rolleyes:
 
If you kill someone whilst you’re asleep, you’re not culpable - so why would you be responsible for your dreams?
 
Doc_Keele said:
If you kill someone whilst you’re asleep, you’re not culpable - so why would you be responsible for your dreams?
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I get it, but in the case of the man who accidentally killed his wife sleep walking, many people in England felt the man was *gulty *and should have been locked up for life. Culpability was very much a question - at least in the eyes of the public.

James’ answer was very constructive:

Sin cannot be imputed while you are asleep.

However I think that your question/concern is a good one and bears examining a bit.

Jesus taught us that what we think can be sinful as well as what we do. Remember that if you look lustfully at a women you’ve already committed adultery with her.
Now I’m not saying that our thoughts while sleeping are held to the same standard as when we are awake, but certainly can point to areas where we might need to pray about.
So in that way I’d say that such dreams are less of a “sin” and more of a “caution” from Our Lord to help us improve.

James, your statement that “I’m not saying that our thoughts while sleeping are held to the same standard as when we are awake, but certainly can point to areas where we might need to pray about. So in that way I’d say that such dreams are less of a “sin” and more of a “caution” from Our Lord to help us improve.” - is very true!
 
We can control what crosses our mind when we’re awake, let alone when we’re asleep. We can control what we do with those thoughts. We can choose to incubate lustful thoughts etc or choose to divert the direction of our thoughts.
 
smackbean said:
I get it, but in the case of the man who accidentally killed his wife sleep walking, many people in England felt the man was *gulty *and should have been locked up for life. Culpability was very much a question - at least in the eyes of the public.

James’ answer was very constructive:

Sin cannot be imputed while you are asleep.

However I think that your question/concern is a good one and bears examining a bit.

Jesus taught us that what we think can be sinful as well as what we do. Remember that if you look lustfully at a women you’ve already committed adultery with her.
Now I’m not saying that our thoughts while sleeping are held to the same standard as when we are awake, but certainly can point to areas where we might need to pray about.
So in that way I’d say that such dreams are less of a “sin” and more of a “caution” from Our Lord to help us improve.

James, your statement that “I’m not saying that our thoughts while sleeping are held to the same standard as when we are awake, but certainly can point to areas where we might need to pray about. So in that way I’d say that such dreams are less of a “sin” and more of a “caution” from Our Lord to help us improve.” - is very true!
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Whoops, didn’t read the OP before replying…
the guy wasn’t sleepwalking incidentally - and the prosecution didn’t proceed once they’d heard the expert evidence (in fact the only issue was whether or not his not guilty plea would be accepted, or he would be found not guilty by reason of insanity). This is the area I am doing my PhD in, and I am researching this case among others 🙂
 
Doc_Keele said:
We can(not) control what crosses our mind when we’re awake, let alone when we’re asleep. We can control what we do with those thoughts. We can choose to incubate lustful thoughts etc or choose to divert the direction of our thoughts.
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This is very true. Random thoughts are just that.
However, why we have a particular random thought is a matter of “conditioning” by our past life. Understanding this, we can recognize areas in our spiritual life that need a little extra prayer, a little extra caution.
For instance in the case of “loking lustfully” at women, one might find himself “automatically” looking at certain body parts and “automatically” having an impure thought. Recognizing this the person can resolve to look only at people’s faces and to look for Christ, and not sexuality, in each person. Such a resolution, earnestly prayed over and carefully applied, can reduce impure thoughts and realign how one sees other people thus reducing the number of “random” impure thoughts one has to deal with.

It’s all part of that long journey to perfection that we are called to travel.

Peace
James
 
smackbean said:
If one has impure thoughts in one’s dreams is that considered a sin? The answer seems simple enough - no. Still, I’m not 100% certain on this. I’ve heard of rare instances where people commit various acts while sleep walking. A man in England strangled his wife while sleep walking - believing she was an intruder. The courts found him not guilty but what about his moral culpability?

Seeking impute from current members on this - thanks.
Click to expand...
Hello Bean,

My suggestion, (and this is what I do), when in doubt…say it in confession.

Whether it is voluntary, involuntary, enjoyed, repulsed, entertaining or whatever - confession is the sure way.

Confession is the inexhaustible source of renewable grace. How can I not recur to this fountain of grace to combat whatever ails my soul - awake or asleep or in twilight sleep?

Hope this helps, it has helped me.
 
JRKH said:
This is very true. Random thoughts are just that.
However, why we have a particular random thought is a matter of “conditioning” by our past life. Understanding this, we can recognize areas in our spiritual life that need a little extra prayer, a little extra caution.
For instance in the case of “loking lustfully” at women, one might find himself “automatically” looking at certain body parts and “automatically” having an impure thought. Recognizing this the person can resolve to look only at people’s faces and to look for Christ, and not sexuality, in each person. Such a resolution, earnestly prayed over and carefully applied, can reduce impure thoughts and realign how one sees other people thus reducing the number of “random” impure thoughts one has to deal with.

It’s all part of that long journey to perfection that we are called to travel.

Peace
James
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I agree 100% with this excellent post:)
 
No I don’t see how somebody can sin whilst asleep. Yes there are a lot of bad thoughts that can cross the mind when asleep, but they are not sinful, because the concious mind has not willfully agreed to it. I’ve seen a case on Forensic Files where a man was accused of murder because the evidence (which doesn’t lie) showed that he killed his wife. He did in fact kill his wife, but while he was asleep. Few people have this condition that makes them do cetain things while they are sleeping. It’s scary but true.
 
Doc_Keele said:
At least 2% of people exhibit violent behaviour during sleep:cool:
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Is it that? I’ve sleep walked a few times before and even had panic attacks while I was sleep walking too. It’s scary as heck man, cause I felt like I was just having a bad dream, but really was acting it out. Parents thought I was nuts.
 
stringbeanduck said:
Is it that? I’ve sleep walked a few times before and even had panic attacks while I was sleep walking too. It’s scary as heck man, cause I felt like I was just having a bad dream, but really was acting it out. Parents thought I was nuts.
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There’s a few causes of violent behaviour during sleep - there’s night terrors, sleep walking, REM sleep behaviour disorder, cross-over parasomnia, and confusional arousals.
I have had episodes of parasomnia myself:o
 
smackbean said:
If one has impure thoughts in one’s dreams is that considered a sin? The answer seems simple enough - no. Still, I’m not 100% certain on this. I’ve heard of rare instances where people commit various acts while sleep walking. A man in England strangled his wife while sleep walking - believing she was an intruder. The courts found him not guilty but what about his moral culpability?

Seeking impute from current members on this - thanks.
Click to expand...
I don’t believe we can sin while asleep. I have a particularly bad case of familial sleep paralysis (fortunately it is controlled with medication, at least most of the time). Here are a few very “immoral” things I attempted to do while walking around in my sleep:

I tried to kill one of my cats. I needed a paper bag and a brick in order to do this. I found the brick but I couldn’t find a paper bag. Then I slowly woke up. [Animal cruelty]

I tried to drink Lysol because I thought I had a sore throat and Lysol is a disinfectant. I slowly woke up as I pulled the bottle of Lysol out of the cupboard. [Suicide attempt]

I woke up very early one morning, alone. I went looking for my husband and found him asleep on the couch. When I asked him why he was sleeping there he told me I had “called him every name in the book” and he was afraid of me. [Being mean and nasty]
I also hit him several times. [Assault]

I attacked a roommate I used to have. I thought a Holter Monitor she was wearing was a radio that was blaring music (I could hear it) and I hit her several times because she wouldn’t turn it off and it was keeping me awake. [Assault]

I tried to jump off a cruise ship. I thought it was a submarine and for some reason it was going to submerge which frightened me and I tried to get out of my room. Fortunately I couldn’t figure out how to open the door, which was a submarine-type door. [Suicide]

Of course none of this makes any sense, but I was dreaming and in dreams we don’t have as much control over our emotions and actions as we think we have. It all made sense to me when I was dreaming but as I became aware of how bizarre my actions were, the dream would dissolve away. Of course I would never have done any of those things if I had been awake.

I know most people don’t have familial sleep paralysis and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy but it does provide some insight into what goes on when we sleep and dream. I’m sure that if I weren’t on medication I could kill someone. That’s one reason I can’t have a gun and why my physician recommended that I tie one foot to the bed with a complicated knot - by the time I would get the knot undone I would probably be awake.

God bless!

Sancta Maria! Mater dei,
ora pro nobis.
 
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