Sins Crying to Heaven for Vengeance?

[Aureole]

Homicide, Sodomy, Oppression of the Poor, and Defrauding Labourers of Their Wages. I stumbled across this while visiting another site, I’ve never heard of them before.

I noticed that most of the passages (from what I’ve seen so far) have been Old Testament that support this. Do these sins still cry out for vengeance? And does the blood of the Lamb keep the Lord from said vengeance?

 

[amateurthomist]

Aureole:

Homicide, Sodomy, Oppression of the Poor, and Defrauding Labourers of Their Wages. I stumbled across this while visiting another site, I’ve never heard of them before.

I noticed that most of the passages (from what I’ve seen so far) have been Old Testament that support this. Do these sins still cry out for vengeance? And does the blood of the Lamb keep the Lord from said vengeance?

Well, no unrepented mortal sin is covered by the blood of the Lamb. So to die in a state of willful unrepentant sin brings about God’s eternal wrath and vengeance. But these sins in particular are singled out in the prophetic tradition because they represent the very depths of depravity. In other words, those who do such things without repentance have gone about as low as a human being can go in terms of depravity.

 

[Matt16_18]

**Catechism of the Catholic Church

1867** The catechetical tradition also recalls that there are “sins that cry to heaven”: the blood of Abel, [139] the sin of the Sodomites,[140] the cry of the people oppressed in Egypt,[141] the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan,142 injustice to the wage earner.[143]

139 Cf. Gen 4:10.
140 Cf. Gen 18:20; 19:13.
141 Cf. Ex 3:7-10.
142 Cf. Ex 20:20-22.
143 Cf. Deut 24:14-15; Jas 5:4.

 

[Aureole]

Thanks for the speedy replies, I’ve manged to clear up a few things. I’m still curious to know if the Lord’s vengeance is held off by the blood of the Lamb though.

 

[Scout]

Forgive me for asking this, but the “sin of the Sodomites”-does the Church interpret that as homosexual relations or does the Church forbid it even between married couples?

Just curious.

Scout :tiphat:

 

[amateurthomist]

Scout:

Forgive me for asking this, but the “sin of the Sodomites”-does the Church interpret that as homosexual relations or does the Church forbid it even between married couples?

Just curious.

Scout :tiphat:

Good question. The Church forbids it between married couples. Sodomy is sodomy, it doesn’t matter the sex of the people involved.

 

[Scout]

amateurthomist:

Good question. The Church forbids it between married couples. Sodomy is sodomy, it doesn’t matter the sex of the people involved.

Can you tell me where that is referenced?

Thanks again.

Scout :tiphat:

 

[Genesis315]

Aureole:

Thanks for the speedy replies, I’ve manged to clear up a few things. I’m still curious to know if the Lord’s vengeance is held off by the blood of the Lamb though.

Hmm. Well, the Mass is offered to make atonement for the sins of the world, so perhaps it is. Let’s just say that God is perfectly just and so He demands justice somehow. The Sacrafice of the Mass is what appeases His justice.

This also shows how much He loves and how much mercy He has. He provides us the pure oblation to satisfy His own justice.

 

[Ghosty]

I believe that these sins do indeed cry out to Heaven, and perhaps we do see the rectifying by wrath of them on Earth. Who knows how God’s justice is borne out in this life; all I care about is that I avoid such things that cry out to Heaven for Justice :bigyikes:

shudder

 

[amateurthomist]

Scout:

Can you tell me where that is referenced?

Thanks again.

Scout :tiphat:

Another good question. I don’t know offhand. In fact, I have Denzinger’s and I’ve never been able to find anything explicit. But I do know that it is the “common law” interpretation, so to speak, of moral theologians. After all, if sodomy is okay, then birth control should be okay. Sodomy is immoral because it is intrinsically closed to procreation. It is a distortion of the very nature of the sexual act.

 

[amateurthomist]

Genesis315:

Hmm. Well, the Mass is offered to make atonement for the sins of the world, so perhaps it is. Let’s just say that God is perfectly just and so He demands justice somehow. The Sacrafice of the Mass is what appeases His justice.

This also shows how much He loves and how much mercy He has. He provides us the pure oblation to satisfy His own justice.

Well, sin has its own consequences. Those who live a life of injustice or who practice a lifestyle of sodomy subject themselves to all kinds of horrible temporal consequences.

 

[Genesis315]

amateurthomist:

Well, sin has its own consequences. Those who live a life of injustice or who practice a lifestyle of sodomy subject themselves to all kinds of horrible temporal consequences.

Well, yes, but if they desire to have the eternal consequence of their sins forgiven, they can because the justice is appeased.

 

[Scout]

amateurthomist:

Another good question. I don’t know offhand. In fact, I have Denzinger’s and I’ve never been able to find anything explicit. But I do know that it is the “common law” interpretation, so to speak, of moral theologians. After all, if sodomy is okay, then birth control should be okay. Sodomy is immoral because it is intrinsically closed to procreation. It is a distortion of the very nature of the sexual act.

I don’t know if it’s the “common law” of Catholic theologians, but as a former Protestant, I was taught that everything was acceptable as long as both the husband and wife were comfortable with it.

My understanding was that, according to Catholic teaching, everything was acceptable as long as the act ended with it being opened to life. However, if I am misunderstanding this teaching, I would like to know that, along with documentation.

Scout :tiphat:

 

[DL82]

Forgive me for asking this, but the “sin of the Sodomites”-does the Church interpret that as homosexual relations or does the Church forbid it even between married couples?

Just curious.

Scout :tiphat:

I heard a really good sermon by Timothy Franklin about the sin of Sodom, where he related it to the rape that takes place in Gibeah of Benjamin at the end of the Book of Judges.

When you read the two stories in parallel, it’s clear that the sin is not anal sex per se, which is never mentioned explicitly in either case, but the depravity of humiliating and raping the guests of a good man within his own city. How anyone can read the Bible passages on the destruction of Sodom and say “it’s all about bum sex” is beyond me. There are clearly far more depraved and immoral offences against God’s people taking place in that city.

I don’t see how the sin of Sodom relates to two men in a loving relationship. Living in London, which is open and tolerant of gay people and has a lively and vibrant gay club scene, I’ve certainly never had an angry mob of gay men at my door demanding to rape any of my male house-guests!