Sirach 38:16-23

  • Thread starter Thread starter diarmait
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

diarmait

Guest
How do we explain the verse above in light of the Catholic teachings on praying to the saints and the doctrine of purgatory?

Here’s the text from the NAB:

16 My son, shed tears for one who is dead with wailing and bitter lament; As is only proper, prepare the body, absent not yourself from his burial: 17 Weeping bitterly, mourning fully, pay your tribute of sorrow, as he deserves, 18 One or two days, to prevent gossip; then compose yourself after your grief, 19 For grief can bring on an extremity and heartache destroy one’s health. 20 Turn not your thoughts to him again; cease to recall him; think rather of the end. 21 Recall him not, for there is no hope of his return; it will not help him, but will do you harm. 22 Remember that his fate will also be yours; for him it was yesterday, for you today. 23 With the departed dead, let memory fade; rally your courage, once the soul has left.
 
The book of Sirach is what is called wisdom literature. This means that it usually or often speaks in hyperbole and in extremes, and also that it often refers to teachings about everyday life as opposed to God and the theological aspects of things.

To understand this, think about the book of Proverbs. It is also wisdom literature. For example, read Proverbs 4:7 - “Wisdom is supreme–so get wisdom. And whatever else you get, get understanding.” Is wisdom really supreme? Of course not! God is supreme. What it means is that wisdom is really important. It is hyperbole: speaking in extremes. It’s the same as if a mother told her young child, “nothing is more important than that you don’t go near the stove.” Obviously there are more important things than that, but it’s a way of getting the point across. This is how wisdom literature reads. If a piece of wisdom literature said, “television creates stupidity,” it wouldn’t mean that television will make you stupid and should always be avoided, but rather that you ought not watch too much of it.

As said above, wisdom literature is mosty good advice for life. This passage is an example of this. It is exaplaining to us the same thing that every person tells their friends who have lost loved ones: its ok to grieve for a little while, but after that you have to move on. You can’t stay attached to the past and to the lost person so much that all you do is grieve. You have to move on with your life. What it doesn’t mean that we should never ever think of the person again. It is telling us the person isn’t gonna come walking through the door any time soon.

Indeed, do we not always speak of St. Paul, St. Peter, and so on?

Additionally, remember that those in Purgatory are not dead but alive in Christ. 🙂
 
40.png
diarmait:
How do we explain the verse above in light of the Catholic teachings on praying to the saints and the doctrine of purgatory?
Click to expand...
This is an instruction against excessive grief for the dead.

16 My son, shed tears for one who is dead with wailing and bitter lament; As is only proper, prepare the body, absent not yourself from his burial: 17 Weeping bitterly, mourning fully, pay your tribute of sorrow, as he deserves, 18 One or two days, to prevent gossip; then compose yourself after your grief, 19 For [excessive] grief can bring on an extremity and heartache destroy one’s health. 20 Turn not your thoughts to him again [saying, If only he hadn’t died…]; cease to recall him [saying, If only he were still alive…]; think rather of the end **. 21 Recall him not [saying, If only he would return and things were the same as they were before…], for there is no hope of his return [barring some great miracle!]; it [wishing things back the way they were] will not help him, but will do you harm. 22 Remember that his fate [physical death] will also be yours; for him it was yesterday, for you today. 23 With the departed dead, rally your courage [and do not give in to excessive grief], once the soul has left.

This passage really doesn’t touch on the intercession of the saints. For that you have to go to Chapter 46:20 and 48:14, where it says of Samuel: “Even when he lay buried, his guidance was sought; he made known to the king his fate. And from the grave he raised his voice as a prophet, to put an end to wickedness.” and of Elisha: “In life he performed wonders, and after death, marvelous deeds.”
 
Eh, I figure, if Sirach contradicted Purgatory, ol’ Marty Luther wouldn’t have chucked it.
 
This is one of those passages that if you take it at its face value could speak about death as the ultimate end. That is if you just look at the passage with out further study. If you do some research you will find that through the history of Israel (thus the OT) there is a development on the meaning of death. At the time Sirach was written in Jewish thought there was no developed metaphysics - there understanding of life was purely as something physical so when the body died so did the person that was it. If there was a means for a person’s life to continue it was through the physical means of reproduction, your life was continued through your children, your children’s children and so forth. This is one of the reasons why not having children was considered a curse, God in effect was really getting rid of you once and for all (another reason it was considered a curse especially for women was based on the coming messiah - every jew had the hope that the messiah would come through their offspring). However, we can find in the OT a development in the belief in an after-life in such works as 2 Maccabees (a late work of the OT). By the time of Jesus, we find in the NT a split in jewish thought about the after life. The Pharisees, like Jesus, believed and taught in life after death. The Saducees and Scribes did not. So that’s how I would approach this passage in regards to
the Church’s teaching on Purgatory. And last thought, as mention previously written, this is a part of the OT we refer to as Wisdom LitIerature so I think the message of this passage can be best used as scriptural backing of the old addage, “Speak only good of the dead”.
 
🙂
diarmait said:
How do we explain the verse above in light of the Catholic teachings on praying to the saints and the doctrine of purgatory?

Here’s the text from the NAB:

16 My son, shed tears for one who is dead with wailing and bitter lament; As is only proper, prepare the body, absent not yourself from his burial: 17 Weeping bitterly, mourning fully, pay your tribute of sorrow, as he deserves, 18 One or two days, to prevent gossip; then compose yourself after your grief, 19 For grief can bring on an extremity and heartache destroy one’s health. 20 Turn not your thoughts to him again; cease to recall him; think rather of the end. 21 Recall him not, for there is no hope of his return; it will not help him, but will do you harm. 22 Remember that his fate will also be yours; for him it was yesterday, for you today. 23 With the departed dead, let memory fade; rally your courage, once the soul has left.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top