Sirach is disrespectful?

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Karen4

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I personally think that the book of sirach in the bible was very offensive especially in one of the quotes when it said “sin began because of a woman and we must all die because of her”.seeing as the bible says that God forgives all sins this quote is not showing forgiveness and is not going by Gods word.The book also shows a lot of disrespect to woman in many ways like the fact that the man has to be in charge at all times and that woman should not speak, the quote to prove my point says “a woman who doesn’t talk is a gift from the lord”. One thing that caught my eye was the fact that it compared woman and offended me very much when it said “she will spread her legs anywhere for any man who wants her, just as a thirsty traveller will drink whatever water is available”. This quote puts out a bad example in the bible it is showing other woman how they are expected to act.
 
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I think that you’re Purposely taking everything out of context.

Please Provide the Chapter and Verse for Each Quotation.
 
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First of all, it seems like the quotes are taken from Good News Translation. It is among the list of approved translations, but it is not the more common NABRE, NRSV-CE, or Douay-Rheims.

As for full quotes (using more common NABRE):
With a woman sin had a beginning,
and because of her we all die.
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(Sirach 25:24 - Full context is 25:13 - 26:18, which is comparing wicked and virtuous women. The quote is when talking about the former.)
A silent wife is a gift from the Lord;
nothing is worth more than her self-discipline.
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(Sirach 26:14 - Same context as before though now talking about a virtuous woman.)
As a thirsty traveler opens his mouth
and drinks from any water nearby,
So she sits down before every tent peg
and opens her quiver for every arrow.
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(Sirach 26:12 - Still the same context but back to a wicked woman, specifically an unfaithful wife.)

Reading over context, you can probably find a few things insensitive by today’s standards (e.g. Sir. 25:22), but it seems to be a standard discussion on wicked and virtuous women, such as what you’d get in Solomon’s writings. And the comment about the Bible setting an expectation that women “open their legs for anyone” is absolutely false. It’s saying the exact opposite - you shouldn’t model such a woman.

Edit: BibleGateway link for those who want to read the context without running to fetch their Bibles.

Edit 2: Updated link to only point to the specific verses.
 
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Sirach is one of my favorite books in the Bible. The quote is saying we should be doing the opposite of what the women is doing.
 
To the OP…start at Genesis 1 and read forward from there and your outrage should be alleviated.

God bless…

M
 
The book compares good and bad women so it’s not really a description of how women are supposed to act.

I do remember reading pretty insensitive comments about women in Sirach, but i really don’t know the justification behind it.
 
It would help if you would give chapter and verse of the statements about which you commented.

Thanks!
 
Silence is a very good practice, with common sense use.
 
You know, men often don’t come off very well in the bible either.
 
Karen4 said:
The book also shows a lot of disrespect to woman in many ways
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Sirach reflects the culture of its day.

Here is one of the Footnotes from the Biblegateway link ZMystiCat referenced.

Footnotes:​

  1. 25:13–26 The harsh statements Ben Sira makes about women reflect the kind of instruction young Jewish males were exposed to in the early second century B.C. His patriarchal perspective is as unfair as it is one-sided.
Btw, welcome to the forums, Karen4 👋🙃
 
He is right. Sin came into the world because of a woman. But salvation also came in because of a woman when Mary said her “fiat.”
 
I find it helpful to understand the Bible is the standard – if there’s something I don’t approve in the Bible, it’s because there’s something wrong with me, not with the Bible. A little prayer helps.
 
Yes, it is true that Eve’s sin is what is called the Original Sin.

However, the Mother of God, a woman, said her fiat. Because of her fiat, she bore her divine Son and brought salvation to the entire world.
 
If you think Sirach is too harsh about women, you should have a real problem with what he says about men.

Do you know what the first sentence of the first page of Massachusetts writing texts used to be?

“In Adam’s fall,
We sinned all.”

And what does Adam mean?

“Man.” (Or “red dirt,” if you’re going for the pun.)

So yes, it’s a commonplace to say that sin comes from Adam, like Paul said, or that sin comes from Eve, like Sirach said, or that sin comes from the devil (like Paul also said). All three statements are true, if you hold with any Judeo-Christian belief at all. So why is it harsh for Sirach to say what everybody knows? It’s a rhetorical starting point. “Yes, son, I know that girls are pretty and nice as a rule, but then, girls think boys are handsome and nice as a rule. Bear in mind that not all girls are nice, just like girls have to remember that not all boys are nice, and you’ll all be safer.”

Proverbs and wisdom literature can be about nice thoughts and pretty advice. But in general, they’re going to include a lot of harsh facts-of-life about human nature.

So yes, you can’t trust some women. You can’t trust some men. Some women will spend your money and desert you; so will some men. Some women are one in a thousand and will never desert you; so are some men.

Hiding from the bitter truths about life is no way to live wisely or happily.

But seeing only the bitter side of a sacred author is no way to understand his writing. (Or hers, when you come to the proverbs of Lemuel’s mom.)
 
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amazingcatholic said:
The quote is saying we should be doing the opposite of what the women is doing.
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Inspired by what @ZMystiCat said (see his or her post above) I think that the quote actually means that women are in eye of many important storms in life so that, through their action they can change it all to the better in an important way for all humanity. Like for example - the women saints did it.
 
I’m sure @Karen4 didn’t mean that women are expected, I.e. obligated, but expected, as in assumed to be.
 
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