Sisters of the Holy Cross

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I stumbled upon this website-this order is especially devoted to the Holy Angels I couldn’t resist emailing them to get more info. I am still waiting to talk to my pastor about discernment but in the meantime I sent an email and I’m waiting to hear from the Superior, also I am enrolling in the Confraternity of the Holy Angels ❤️ So if this is as far as I get with this order I will be very happy. One of their retreats is held at the monastery at Mother Angelica’s. I wanted to share this with anyone who is also discerning. opusangelorum.org/about-us/about_us.htm.
 
👍

I know this sounds crazy … I went to the website and the picture on the bottom left, sub titles preaching, I do believe that father is part of the FSSP and they travel around to offer Latin Masses. (I am pretty sure that I saw him at the Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament of which the Mass was televised)

Anyway …
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but these women would be canonesses, rather than nuns? Which means their office would be amazing, and, by church law, always open to the public.
 
I don’t know. Could you go into more detail about the differences?
 
A canoness would be a woman canon, therefore her life would be built around not only being consecrated, but also some kind of public ministry, often in hospitals. Their praying of the divine office must be done in public-so, rather than their chapels having a public section-as with nuns, properly so called-their entire chapel’s purpose would be to celebrate the official prayer of the Church with the laity.
 
A canoness would be a woman canon, therefore her life would be built around not only being consecrated, but also some kind of public ministry, often in hospitals. Their praying of the divine office must be done in public-so, rather than their chapels having a public section-as with nuns, properly so called-their entire chapel’s purpose would be to celebrate the official prayer of the Church with the laity.
It’s what is also known as the active/contemplative lifestyle. 🙂 I’m called to be what you call a “canoness”. 👍
 
Except for the fact that you will be making simple vows.
 
Except for the fact that you will be making simple vows.
I forget, are simple vows the same as temporal vows? If so, yes, I will be making them after my two year novitiate and one year postulancy period. The first time making vows will last 3 years, then you make vows ever year after that (lasting one year) for 3-5 more years. At the end of tertiate, I will make the final vows (binding me to the community forever). 😃
 
No, most groups founded post Reformation make simple perpetual vows. People in formation where solemn vows are taken do go through a stage of simple, temporary vows.
 
How interesting!

I know of very few non-cloistered, female congregations who have the privilege of solemn vows.

The other exception I know of is the Visitation, 2nd federation.

There seems to be some discrepancy between men’s and women’s branches where this is concerned … 1st order Dominican friars speak of taking solemn vows, but 3rd order conventual Dominican women do not. I haven’t been able to find out why yet.

Very interesting.
 
The order I am joining is a part of the First Order Carmelites. They are obedient to the Carmelite Father General of the Discalced Order. I don’t know if this makes a difference or not.:confused:
 
How interesting!

I know of very few non-cloistered, female congregations who have the privilege of solemn vows.

The other exception I know of is the Visitation, 2nd federation.

There seems to be some discrepancy between men’s and women’s branches where this is concerned … 1st order Dominican friars speak of taking solemn vows, but 3rd order conventual Dominican women do not. I haven’t been able to find out why yet.

Very interesting.
Hello Lilllabettt,

There is a long history to the notion of solemn versus simple vows and I really don’t know enough about particular religious institutes and what they call the vows they make.

But, the basic difference between a solemn and simple vow is that those who make a solemn vow renounce all ownership and use of, as well as benefit from, property. Someone who makes a simple vow still can own something personally. So, the difference is a practical one, regarding property. Women and men can make a solemn vow.

In the general law of the Church, there is only temporary and perpetual vows. Each community defines how a person is to live out those vows and the Church, over time, has recognized certain religious institutes’ vows as being “solemn.”

Hope that makes sense.

Dan
 
At one point I learned from a person who would know such things that there is no remaining canonical difference … but then I know some communities continue to emphasize a distinction.

I have read elsewhere that solemn profession is different from simple perpetual vows in that it makes any attempt at marriage not only illicit but invalid, and that solemn vows must be dispensed by the pope, while simple perpetual vows can be dispensed by a bishop.
 
Actually, all perpetual vows are dispensed by Rome. The canonical distinction does matter, if only for practical reasons, as people are entering religious life now later in life, having accumulated a bit of property along the way… so how to dispose of it will differ, depending on the type of community one enters.
 
At one point I learned from a person who would know such things that there is no remaining canonical difference … but then I know some communities continue to emphasize a distinction.

I have read elsewhere that solemn profession is different from simple perpetual vows in that it makes any attempt at marriage not only illicit but invalid, and that solemn vows must be dispensed by the pope, while simple perpetual vows can be dispensed by a bishop.
Simple perpetual vows can be dispensed by the Major Superior if the community is a male community. If it is a female community the request for dispensation goes to the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life also known as the Sacred Congregation for Religious and Secular Institutes.

Solemn vows can only be dispensed by the Holy See.

Canon law does not make a distinction between simple and solemn vows because the canonical issues are the same for both. Canon law only deals with the legal issues, not the theological issues.

Theologically they are different in two obvious domains and some not so obvious.

Religious who make solemn vows must give up all right to ownership of what they have when they enter and what they may acquire later, such as inheritances. Other religious may have the same requirement in their constitutions, but not because the Church expects it of them.

Religious in solemn vows who attempt marriage without a dispensation cannot be validly married. Those in simple vows who do the same are validly married, but illicitly. The vow ceases. Solemn vows override the sacrament of marriage, because the person does not have the theological freedom to marry. He or she is already married to his or her order.

Most religious in solemn vows belong to Orders, not Congregations. Orders have certain exemptions that Congregations do not have. For example a congregation can be either of Pontifical Right or Diocesan Right. If it is of diocesan right, the bishop is the highest authority and he can dispense with the vows as well as approve their constitution.

Orders must have their constitutions approved by the Holy See and no bishop can claim authority over them. After they are approved by the Sacred Congregation, they are sent to the Holy Father who puts his seal of approval on the constitution. Orders always follow a Rule (with capital R). The Rule can only be changed by a pope, not by the members of the order. Congregations may have a rule written by their founder, but they can edit the rule at their General Chapter. An Order cannot edit its rule. The Rule of an Order has a Papal Bull on it, so that it cannot be tampered with even by the membership.

Currently the Rules with Papal Bulls are: Benedictine, Carmelite, Franciscan, Augustinian and Basilian (Eastern Churches). All the other rules are free of a Papal Bull.

Usually, women in solemn vows are nuns. Sisters make simple vows. Men who make solemn vows are usually friars or monks, with the exception of the Society of Jesus, where some members also make solemn vows.

Finally, the theological difference is that solemn vows are considered by the Church to be a more intense commitment to the evangelical counsels. But in daily practice, a religious community can make their commitment or practice of the evangelical councils as intense as they wish, without the solemn vows.

And communities in solemn vows may not own property as a corporate body, except for the Benedictines. The other communities can only own property with good reason and it has to be approved by the proper authorities in the Vatican. One reason is usually to avoid interference or conflicts with the local bishop or the laity. In the past, there were situations where the bishops and wealthy members of the laity sponsored religious orders and then wanted to “cash in on the favor.” That’s when the Church began to allow the orders with solemn vows to raise money to purchase property for their use. But the catch in the tradition is that the property is for the use of the order, however the Vatican reserves the right to separate the order from the property. Congregations in simple vows can own property without the permission of the Vatican and cannot be legally separated from it.

It sounds more complex than it is. In practice, every religious simply goes by the Rule or Constitutions of his or her community.

Diocesan priests or secular priests as is their proper title, do not make vows of chastity, poverty or obedience. They make a promise of obedience to the bishop and a promise of celibacy. Promises are not vows. The obedience transfers from one bishop to another, it is not bound to any rule or community or founder. Celibacy is simply not to marry. It does not commit the individual to a life in community. There is no vow of poverty. Therefore, diocesan priests can be millionaires or paupers. They get paid a salary for their work in the Church and are considered self-employed in most dioceses. They pay taxes and their own social security and FICA etc. They can do what they wish with their money and their property. They are priests, not consecrated religious.

Hope this helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Actually, I know of several men who left religious life in the late 80s and early 90s-whose vows had to be dispensed by the sacred congregation-though these men were all members of non clerical congregations.
 
Actually, I know of several men who left religious life in the late 80s and early 90s-whose vows had to be dispensed by the sacred congregation-though these men were all members of non clerical congregations.
Of course. Holy Orders has nothing to do with religious life. Some religious are priests, but not all. The vows are part of the religious community, regardless of whether the community is clerical or lay.

There are many clerical communities that are not orders or religious congregations of Pontifical Right. Most clerical communities make simple vows, not solemn vows. It’s usually the older orders that make solemn vows. They need to go to the Holy See for a dispensation, whether the order is clerical or lay. The Franciscan Friars are not clerical. They are a lay order, even though they have priests. They are lay because they have lay superiors. But they have solemn vows. They go to the Holy See for dispensations. Many Benedictine Abbeys are also lay abbeys; but they are in solemn vows. They may have one or two priests. But it is not the priesthood that gives them the solemn vows, but the founder together with a Papal Bull. Those communities go to the Holy See.

Most other communities go to the Sacred Congregation, because they are in simple vows, regardless of whether they are lay or clerical.

Only diocesan communities go to the local bishop. Only congregations that are not of Pontifical Right go to their Major Superior.

Most women religious are of Pontifical Right or Diocesan. They go to the respective authority, depending on the status of their community in the Church.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
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